Hyperdoxy, What is IT? How to avoid it?

[gzt]

It's definitely the case that reading his stuff can be dangerous for people who are not yet well-formed.

 

[~Anastasia~]

It's definitely the case that reading his stuff can be dangerous for people who are not yet well-formed.

I've heard reference to a topic or two, but purposely have not tracked them down.

Let me ask your opinion (or everyone else's) ... what is the consensus on his theology of the afterlife?

I purposely read very little on that topic by anyone, but I've had it recommended to me a few times. It's probably a moot point though. He might surprise me, but my guess is that Fr. C might not approve in any case.

(Iirc, it was the account concerning St. Theodora and the aerial tollhouses I foolishly read as a barely-catechumen, and it scared me half to death, lol)

 

[gzt]

Controversial and unimportant.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Controversial and unimportant.

K, Ty.

I certainly have other things to focus on that are actually needful.

 

[gzt]

Though I'm sure some people here may have other opinions.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Though I'm sure some people here may have other opinions.

Probably.

As I said, I strongly suspect Fr. C would not allow it. And I'm not inclined to ask right now.

I have a number of books already listed to read that will probably keep me busy for a few months, and I have no doubt he has more after those. And these are actually helpful to me.

I used to have a terrible curiosity that simply needed to poke into every question and I couldn't stand being told not to try to know a thing, but I think I better recognize that now for what it is and I'm well satisfied with what is good for me, thank God.

 

[gzt]

I think the real danger is with people who believe whatever the last thing they read is and consider it "case closed" (perhaps until they read another book). People who read things out of curiosity tend to be able to have a little more distance than that.

 

[Cappadocious]

One mark of hyperdoxy is lay people wanting a relationship with their priest that is not typical of 99% of Orthodox Christians throughout history. Where the priest plays the role of a monastic spiritual father to their monastic child.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think the real danger is with people who believe whatever the last thing they read is and consider it "case closed" (perhaps until they read another book). People who read things out of curiosity tend to be able to have a little more distance than that.

Well ... As far as theology goes I need a framework to analyze it. If I can't figure it out based on reading several sources and seeing what people say, I will eventually ask our priest.

But since we're also talking about hyperdoxy/convertitis, that's a little easier to spot based on attitude. If one listens to many priests speak in similar voices of gentleness and humility, and reads from the Saints who do the same, then the constellation of errors that tend to build up with hyperdoxy stands in stark contrast.

 

[GregConstantine]

Be careful about what you say about Fr Seraphim gzt, any criticism of him is likely to result in your being anathematized by some on this forum! Lol!

 

[All4Christ]

Probably.

As I said, I strongly suspect Fr. C would not allow it. And I'm not inclined to ask right now.

I have a number of books already listed to read that will probably keep me busy for a few months, and I have no doubt he has more after those. And these are actually helpful to me.

I used to have a terrible curiosity that simply needed to poke into every question and I couldn't stand being told not to try to know a thing, but I think I better recognize that now for what it is and I'm well satisfied with what is good for me, thank God.

I personally see so many other good Orthodox books that aren't contradictory that I still need to read, so I am avoiding his books at the time. I get mixed up enough already!!! I wish even now I could read whatever I wanted - but I still need to be judicious about the books I read.

 

[E.C.]

one thing that's great about Orthodoxy in America is that we have churches from all the various jurisdictions/ethnicities, so you can go around and see all the different traditions, the different flavors and styles and see that no one style is THE Orthodox way ... we can see the universality of the Church really easily in America

This.
A good example of this is comparing how parishes do the Great Entrance. The old home parish did it the Greek style (around the people), the parish in California did it Russian style (mimics the Little Entrance). Regardless of which "method" one is used to, when you see it done the other way for the first time it will boggle your mind a little. Just because it is the Greek/Russian/Arab/Serb/Romanian/Georgian way does not automatically make it THE way.

when a Catholic priest who always shows up at STOTS brought doughnuts on a Friday, one of the more zealous folks here asked if they were Lenten. our bookstore manager replied with if they are given in kindness, they are always Lenten.

This is something that needs to be emphasized and taught more than it is. One of the things that always bothered me with Catholicism, even as a kid, is that if it was Friday than it was always such a pharisitic "look at me" attitude about giving something up or no meat Fridays for Lent.

One mark of hyperdoxy is lay people wanting a relationship with their priest that is not typical of 99% of Orthodox Christians throughout history. Where the priest plays the role of a monastic spiritual father to their monastic child.

This.
Sometimes it is an ill informed priest who wants this relationship with all of their parishioners. I've always liked the term "spiritual father syndrome".

 

[dzheremi]

One of the hardest things for me to unlearn upon leaving the Roman Catholic Church is that the priest is to be the servant of the mysteries, not their master. I know that for a lot of people from Catholic backgrounds like me, it can be very easy to pick up the idea that receiving unworthily means "receiving while feeling anxiety about something you're actually working on and making progress on, but are too neurotic to let go of". It actually took one of my Coptic friends to sit me down and say "Are you going to run to abouna every time you do something bad? 'Oh, abouna! I stepped on a bug! Give me absolution!' Grow up, man! If you have a real thing to confess, then yes, but you can't be afraid so much. It's weird. It's not healthy." He was right, and I think a lot of people (not necessarily just 'hyperdox' people) have a hard time getting over this way of looking at their spiritual lives, and so obsess about very minute things, and that's how you get all these weirdos who are sifting through their food during the fasts, honing in with Terminator-like precision on every single possible mistake a reader might make, etc. To be honest, more confessions than I care to admit have included some point when father tells me to calm down about something I'm thinking is a huge deal, but to him must be understandable and possible to deal with. And he's not steered me wrong in that.

Probably a lot of hyperdox people need to get the "slow and steady wins the race" speech, because otherwise they'll likely burn out quickly. It's supposed to be a marriage, not a fling.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Be careful about what you say about Fr Seraphim gzt, any criticism of him is likely to result in your being anathematized by some on this forum! Lol!

probably by the mysterious group of Orthodox youth that fall in love with Tsarist Russia after reading him. we don't know who they are or where they are, but dagnabbit they are out there.

 

[jckstraw72]

dagnabbit

that's a fine word right there!

 

[~Anastasia~]

probably by the mysterious group of Orthodox youth that fall in love with Tsarist Russia after reading him. we don't know who they are or where they are, but dagnabbit they are out there.

I confess to becoming fond of Tsarist Russia myself, though nothing to do with Fr. Seraphim Rose. Currently reading St. Elizabeth the New Martyr and St. Seraphim of Sarov.

But then again, I'm also becoming very fond of St. Paisios (who I'm also reading) and very much looking forward to reading more of St. Porphyrios, who is my next reading assignment.

Oh, and St. John Maximovich is a favorite too.

Russia, Greece, US ... I'm pretty much fond of whatever place forms Saints, and the Saints themselves ...

 

[ArmyMatt]

I confess to becoming fond of Tsarist Russia myself, though nothing to do with Fr. Seraphim Rose.

haha, no, that comment has to do with an earlier thread.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

My advice is to make sure you don't trash your roots. Many ex-Catholics or former Protestants feel they need to trash their former church to prove their Orthodoxy. They think they'll get kudos but really people don't respect that.

I think it's great to take up an interest in the ethnic group of your parish, but to try to convert to another ethnicity becoming an "honorary" Serb or Russian or Greek, crazy....I've watched so much of that!!! Weird.

I also think Hyperdox think they have to comment on everything and read everything and become instant experts. That's annoying as heck!!

 

[~Anastasia~]

haha, no, that comment has to do with an earlier thread.

Oh, I didn't think your comment had anything to do with me.

I read quite a bit of Russian history today (which means nothing - I read a lot but my initial knowledge was so sparse, what was added still doesn't make anything to speak of). But it's just very much on my mind, and pieces begin to fall into place. And it seems the end of the Tsarist period was such a sad loss.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

My advice is to make sure you don't trash your roots. Many ex-Catholics or former Protestants feel they need to trash their former church to prove their Orthodoxy. They think they'll get kudos but really people don't respect that.

I think you see that with converts in any religion though.