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see my last posts, I won't read any more peer reviews unless you give a picture of the animal in question first. That is fair, I have read four and dismissed four as non sequitur. I am done. That will vet your papers a bit. Also for now, here is a good read for you, showing a validation of the global flood.... Scientists now say the earth was originally covered in water. The Bible has said that for 4,000 years: Scientists say ancient Earth was completely covered in water
again it was posted in an official geological resource paper, you can see below: I don't know if it was peer reviewed but it was published at a national geological society of america annual meeting for all geologists....
Steven A. Austin and Kurt P. Wise "Nautiloid Mass-Kill Event at a Hydrothermal Mound within the Redwall Limestone (Mississippian), Grand Canyon, Arizona":Geologic Society of American Abstracts with Programs, Vol.27, no. 6, 1995, p.A-369
from:Joel kontinen: Billions of Dead Nautiloids in the Grand Canyon: Evidence for a Rapid Burial
In 1995 two creationist PhD scientists, Steven Austin and Kurt Wise, found that there were at least 71 nautiloid fossils on the rock ledges of the Grand Canyon. Four years later Steven Austin examined the ledges more thoroughly and found hundreds of nautiloids in a few days. They were of all sizes, from small to very large, some over six feet long, suggesting that a large population of these sea creatures, both young and old animals, was buried simultaneously.[9] This discovery supports the biblical view that Noah’s flood “deluged and destroyed” the early Earth (Genesis 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6).
explain why 15% of the grand canyon deposit of nautiloids, are on their heads!
The nautiloids were trapped in a layer that is from seven to forty or fifty feet thick and at least 180 miles long. There are probably ten billion nautiloid fossils in the bed along with other sea creatures such as corals.[10] Using flow models,[11] Dr. Austin was able to deduce that an enormous and a very rapid sedimentary flow caught the nautiloids and fossilised them almost instantly. The standard explanation of a slowly moving sea could never have produced this phenomenon that Austin aptly calls a mass kill. [12]
[9] Ref. 7.
[10] Austin, Steven. 2003. Geologic Evidences for Very Rapid Strata Deposition in the Grand Canyon. Answers in Genesis DVD.
[11] Ref. 10.
[12] Refs 7 and 10.
here is another clip:
explain why 15% of the grand canyon deposit of nautiloids, are on their heads!
if they were buried gradually would they be lying down?
"15% of these nautiloids were killed and then fossilized standing on their heads. "-(Steve Austin is also the world's leading expert on nautiloid fossils and has worked in the canyon and presented his findings to the park's rangers at the invitation of National Park Service officials.)
quote from
Millions of Grand Canyon nautiloid fossils prove rapid limestone formation | Young Earth - Age of the Earth - Evidence Against Old Earth Arguments
see my last posts, I won't read any more peer reviews unless you give a picture of the animal in question first. That is fair, I have read four and dismissed four as non sequitur. I am done. That will vet your papers a bit. Also for now, here is a good read for you, showing a validation of the global flood.... Scientists now say the earth was originally covered in water. The Bible has said that for 4,000 years: Scientists say ancient Earth was completely covered in water
if you can find a cone with a width to height ration of 1 to 4 or 1 to 5 and allow it to stand up in the shallow waters at the ocean, even tucked in some sand, for a long long time, time for it to fossilize, then you are good and you don't need to provide more evidence. Go ahead time is ticking. In the mean while go ahead and read that link about the global flood.And both of the above documents are in reference to oblique burial of orthoconic shells.
But I'm going to give you another idea to consider.
Think about how a cone is shaped. It has a point at one end and a wider circle at the other.
So we have corals, sponges, reworking currents in some locations.
One possibility is that the fossil sinks and the point gets stuck in the sand at an angle. Which I think is absolutely possible in instances of reworking.
But consider the other possibility as well, that a cone can most certainly rest with it's circle down. I can grab a cone from my garage that I use to add gas to my car, I can place it in water where it will slowly sink and it certainly could (although in lower probability) come to rest on its circular side. Someone could argue that the current ought to push them on their side and in most cases this is what happens. But there is also the possibility that a current may push a cone onto it's head.
I'll see what else I can dig up for you.
again it was posted in an official geological resource paper, you can see below: I don't know if it was peer reviewed but it was published at a national geological society of america annual meeting for all geologists....
Steven A. Austin and Kurt P. Wise "Nautiloid Mass-Kill Event at a Hydrothermal Mound within the Redwall Limestone (Mississippian), Grand Canyon, Arizona":Geologic Society of American Abstracts with Programs, Vol.27, no. 6, 1995, p.A-369
from:Joel kontinen: Billions of Dead Nautiloids in the Grand Canyon: Evidence for a Rapid Burial
if you can find a cone with a width to height ration of 1 to 4 or 1 to 5 and allow it to stand up in the shallow waters at the ocean, even tucked in some sand, for a long long time, time for it to fossilize, then you are good and you don't need to provide more evidence. Go ahead time is ticking. In the mean while go ahead and read that link about the global flood.
you may like it as your job depends on it.
if I find it comparable to a nautiloid
Wow! A post that makes sense and that does not confuse religion with science! Thank you for taking the time to share with us!Ok, so there is a question of if
"
Even if an entire ocean sloshed out of its basin on one side of a continent, went across large sections of the continent, and then back into a different basin on the other side of the continent?"
I would say, that if we look at the image above and below with the meanders:
View attachment 257003
I think that this image doesn't depict water going from one area, directly and catastrophically to another. Rather the water goes maybe a thousand feet, then turns 180 degrees, then repeats over and over.
If water has enough energy to blast it's way across an entire continent, it wouldn't turn 180 degrees.
Like when a fireman opens a water hose to put out a fire, the water doesn't zig zag through the air. It goes in a straight line. Like this:
View attachment 257004
This looks like catastrophism, at least on a miniature scale. The water flows in a straight aggressive line.
But not with the meanders above.
And the answer to this is that, there are two different origins to each formation. The meanders were formed by low energy, meandering streams and incision of water seeking out equilibrium with it's water table (water goes down hill until it gets to more water, so if you lift water up, it cuts down when energized by what we call gravitational potential energy).
With the scablands, some kind of ice damn failed, and a lake of water blasted its way over to the lowest path it could find.
And also, check this out.View attachment 257005
This is a cross section of new York.
And in it, we don't really see something that looks like a big wave blasting its way through. On a more detailed level, it consists of something we call, ocean transgressive and regressive sequences.
Which is to say, it consists of repeating cycles of strata, sandstone, shale, limestone, shale, sandstone, shale, limestone over and over and over and over again. And above that in the Catskills, we have turbidites. And within these layers, we also have variation in minerals formed by anaerobic respiration of bacteria, interbedded with layers of high amounts of oxygen.
To geologists, the answer is simple. Beaches form sandstone (sand is at the beach, simple), sea level rises and sand breaks down into finer silt (if you walk into the ocean, sediment gets smaller, so the rocks too are made of smaller sediment, like mud and silt). And in the deep ocean, we have carbonaceous material, like sea shells. And limestone thus forms out of carbonaceous material.
So the ocean rises and sandstone is covered by siltstone and later covered by limestone.
Then sea level drops, and the reverse happens.
Then sea level rises, then drops, then rises, then drops.
Shallow Marine environments are oxidized. Deep marine marine environments are without oxygen.
Then at the very top of new York, there are multiple layers of glacial till.
View attachment 257006
Look closely at the figure and we see up to 9 + independent and lithologically unique layers of glacial till, all deposited by independent glaciers.
Planet gets cold, glaciers extend south and creates moraines. Planet warms, glacier retreats, drops stones and deposits till. Planet cools, glacier returns, planet warms, glacier retreats and deposits more till
Over and over and over and over and over again.
These are the ice ages of the milankovich cycles for which there have been many.
But there's more.
Let's throw in dinosaur nests and trackways and complex burrow networks. Dinosaurs are walking around, they're eating, they're sleeping they're mating, building nests, laying eggs, making burrows and living in the burrows. Right in the middle of the mesozoic. And amphibians and reptiles are doing the same throughout the Paleozoic and the same goes for the cenozoic, all over the world animals are walking around, making nests, laying eggs, making burrows, throughout every period of geologic superpositional time. Life didn't appear to notice that there was a catastrophy going on.
View attachment 257010
View attachment 257011
View attachment 257012
Right in the middle of these oceanic trans and regressive sequences.
So ultimately, and this is just my opinion, but these things, the meanders, the oceanic sequences, the burrow networks, nests, and tracks, I don't think they indicate or suggest that a giant wave of water came blasting over North America.
But there's more still.
There are over 4 million varves in the green River formation. 4 million. No flood imaginable could produce something like that.
But there's more.
Right splat in the middle of the Paleozoic is an overturned angular unconformity.
View attachment 257007
But there's more
Ductile Deformed originally bilaterally symmetric fossils.
View attachment 257008
View attachment 257009
Ductile deformation, meaning that extreme pressures caused by plate tectonics, but not so extreme that the fossils would be obliterated, but rather they deform under ductile conditions, like play-doh. But the pressure can't be too great, or the fossil would reach a brittle failure and snap into pieces.
And there's more, I could go on for days. But the point is that, all of these things make perfect sense if the past was just like today.
In today's world, sea level changes. Simple. Animals make foot tracks and nests and burrows. Ok, simple.
Rivers make meanders. Ok simple.
Flood waters make flood deposits and erosional rills and surfaces (yes, we can see evidence of flooding when it happens).
Global climate does change. I know it's controversial in today's political climate, but it's a real thing. Glaciers advance and they retreat, it's what they do. They deposit till and drop stones. Simple.
Angular unconformity? Simple. Layer A deposits. Layer A lithified. Layer A is tilted by orogenesis, plate tectonics. The himilayas grow in height each year, today. We see it happening, simple.
Layer A is pushed over and erodes flat. Layer B is deposited on top, layer B lithified. Here comes the catch, more orogenesis, the unconformity turns over again making the older and superpositionally deeper layer flat.
1. ______________
(First layer is deposited)
2. // ////// /// //////
// /// // / //// /////// //
(Layer lithifies then turns on side)
3. // /// // / //// /////// //
(Top layer erodes off)
4. __________________
// /// // / //// /////// //
(New layer is deposited on top)
5. ______///////////
______////////////
(New layer lithifies, then the collective system turns again putting the older layers back to horizontal with the younger layers vertical).
Just take time to wrap your head around the above text. And ponder it, in addition to the other details and consider how a flood could do it all.
4 million independent varves in the green River formation. Embrace that number for just a moment.
Then turn back to the question. Could a wave washing across North America do all this?
Most scientists, and by most, I mean every scientist I've ever known, including myself, would say...no.
@Wolseley
The flood article ? Just saying many scientists believe a catastrophe happened. That is all.This article you have posted is in reference to pre Cambrian strata, not ordovician strata of orthocones.
You want to talk about staying on topic, we have long since departed from the topic of your link.
And sure, let me see what pictures the article has.
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