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Featured How Will People Survive Mark of the Beast

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Debbie3832, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. Debbie3832

    Debbie3832 New Member

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    So what you are saying is this Jesus figure is actually going to be the beast who is disguised as the real Jesus to convert the world to Islam. You say the mark won't say 666 . . . . . . . . . . . . well I think in Revelation 13 it states people would have the number 666, the name of the beast, or the mark.
     
  2. Lost4words

    Lost4words In reality, an old dog! Supporter

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    Revelation, the most misinterpreted and misunderstood book in the Bible.

    So many 'experts' on what it means...:doh:
     
  3. Matt5

    Matt5 New Member

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    666 is in Greek numbers. So we in the West would not recognize it as 666.

    Check out this video on the Mahdi and Jesus (Go to .40; At 7.15 humans and demons would interact to spread Islam.):
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  4. Debbie3832

    Debbie3832 New Member

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    Do you have an interpretation of Revelation? If you do I'd like to read it. When I go out and see all the masses of people, like at Walmart, etc., I wonder how many are aware of what's going on in this world and what is going to happen.
     
  5. Lost4words

    Lost4words In reality, an old dog! Supporter

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    Look up partial preterism. Thats what i believe in regards to Revelation.
     
  6. Debbie3832

    Debbie3832 New Member

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    I did look up some definitions of partial preterism, of which I have never heard of before. You interpret many of the apocalyptic prophecies in Revelation to have already happened, such as the mark, the tribulation, etc. with other prophecies such as the second resurrection and Great White Throne judgment still to happen. Am I correct? Does this include your belief that the thousand year reign of peace has already happened and that we are actually living in the time when Revelation says Satan must be loosened from his prison for a little while to once again deceive the nations?
     
  7. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    I actually have watched an entire in dept, 72 part series of Revelation, thoroughly going through every chapter verse by verse. Pretty enlightening stuff. I can share the videos with you if u wish
     
  8. Debbie3832

    Debbie3832 New Member

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    Yes, I think that would be very interesting. Thank You.
     
  9. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Here you go.

    Keep an open mind because I am sure a lot of what you will be hearing will be new.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  10. AACJ

    AACJ Please Pray

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    Firstly, your concern is unwarranted becasue what you are describing occurs after the 1st Thess. Rapture Event. Focus on continued positive change in society, not some lie that supposes inevitable moral decline prior to the Rapture.

    Secondly, any physical indicator placed upon or in the body has no power in itself over your will, so it is not the indicator/Mark itself that condemns, it is the condition, reason, and motivation behind receiving such indicator that condemns (neither physical objects--such as a computer chip--or symbols have the power to bring us in to Christ nor to take us out of Christ). So the receiving of the mark of the beast will require the precondition of a spiritual disposition that is anti-Christ.

    It is probable that those who will receive such a Mark or indicator will already be lost and without means of salvation and therefore will be inclined to receive such a Mark in the first place. I understand it to be more probable than not that outside of the 144,000 described in Rev, there will be no persons saved (justified in Christ) during the 7 or more years separating the Rapture and Second Coming. If that is true, then such persons receiving the Mark will be already hopelessly lost, and so it makes sense that they would have no problem receiving such mark.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  11. Aquila0121

    Aquila0121 Brother In Christ

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    I believe such worry is unwarranted because much of what Christian pop culture believes today about the mark of the Beast and prophecy is sensationalized mythology. Let's look at God's "mark" and then we can take a look at what is commonly called, "the mark of the Beast".

    Here we read of God's mark on the 144, 000 first fruits of the Gospel (the Jews):

    Revelation 14:1-4
    1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
    2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
    3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
    4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    Is God going to physically "mark" 144,000 with the name of Jehovah God in their foreheads??? Of course not. We read of how believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit:

    Ephesians 1:12-14
    12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    This is a spiritual "mark" or "seal" if you will. It denotes ownership. Those sealed by God, are owned by God. One could elaborate on this quite a bit here. However, let's be brief seeing that this is a forum and no reader wants to have to read through a ton of references and repetitive examples. So, let's now turn to this "mark of the beast"...

    Revelation 13:15-18
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


    You'll notice that the false prophet (the false religious system and its leader/leaders) give life unto the "image" of the beast. This means that this "false prophet" establishes a form of idolatry. In fact, it elevates the very image of the beast to a place of power and this "image of the beast" (idolatrous thing or person) demands worship at the cost of death to all who will not worship him. And this idolatry is pushed upon all peoples under the beast's authority. All trade and commerce is only permitted if one has the "mark" of the beast.

    We also see that the mark of the beast is, 666. This is very interesting. Because the mark is the numeric gematric code. During the time that this book was written the Emperor Nero was in power and massacring Christians. He was crucifying them and setting them on fire to light his gardens. He was impaling them while he ate. He was known by many to be a "beast". He would command that Christians be wrapped up in bloody animal skins and then had wild dogs set loose upon them. He beheaded Paul and crucified Peter. Even contemporary Roman sources called him a "beast". The man was insane, full of the devil. He killed his mother and had his wife killed as well. And interestingly... his name equals, 666.

    N = 50
    R = 200
    W = 6
    N = 50
    Q = 100
    S = 60
    R = 200

    The Latin NRWN QSR is Neron Kesar (Nero Caesar). Even more interestingly, when spelled without the final "N", as a Gentile would spell it in Hebrew, it is NRW QSR. This NRW QSR equals 616... exactly what we see in variant NT translations of the Revelation.

    So, in short... the Beast was Rome and it's Emperor Nero. The False Prophet was the apostate priesthood of Jerusalem who essentially encouraged loyalty to the Roman State and Emperor Nero for the sake of the wealth they gained through trade and commerce within the Roman Empire. Anyone who submitted to Nero's authority for the sake of trade, commerce, security, preservation of wealth, position, or power... was spiritually "owned" by the Beast, Nero. It wasn't a literal "mark". It's not a tattoo. It's not a branding in the skin. It's not a microchip. It's a spiritual mark of ownership. Those who compromised Christ to save their own lives or to preserve their own wealth and social status were essentially... sealed by the spirit of the Beast.

    Now, that doesn't mean that the mark of the beast is merely history. Whomever you give your loyalty to owns you. Whatever you submit yourself to spiritually is your master. Anytime a Christian compromises their faith in an idolatrous loyalty to the state, they are playing with the "mark of the beast". Their misplaced zeal and loyalty to the state indicates that they are owned by the state. Whenever a Christian betrays Christ in worshiping, praising, or adoring of an "image" (a false god or savior), they are spiritually marked by that which they worship.

    So, a lot of the fear and worry surrounding this today is unwarranted. However, caution must be taken. Governments, organizations, false religions, cults of personality, still exist and can suck hapless Christians into their deceptions. Whomever you serve is your master, be it God, Satan, or the world. Spiritually, you have taken their mark. So, stay submitted to Jesus.
     
  12. Aquila0121

    Aquila0121 Brother In Christ

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  13. kcnalp

    kcnalp Member

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    Israel in the desert survived 40 years by miracles from God. Those who don't believe in miracles will have a real problem.
     
  14. NotreDame

    NotreDame Domer Supporter

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    Except Ancient Rome doesn’t meet all of the actions of the Beast, and neither do any of its leaders. The Beast accomplishes much more than Rome and its leaders ever did. Another problem with Rome as the Beast is the fact Christ returns and gives the Beast an eternal vacation in the Lake of Fire, followed by the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ on earth. There’s no evidence this has happened.

    Your commentary about a spiritual mark cannot be reconciled with the verses which say it is a mark to be taken on the right hand and/or forehead. Spiritual marks of ownership aren’t logically designated as marks taken on the hand or forehead. The fact the mark is to be received by a specific hand or forehead indicates the mark is some physical entity.
     
  15. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Papal Rome does in fact meet all of the actions of the beast. In Daniel 7 the Stone which strikes the image does not smash the head or the chest but strikes the feet which is part of iron and part of clay, the Iron representing Rome.

    And the part about the lake of fire and 1000 year reign, well of course there is no evidence of that because it is still in the future.

    Now concerning the spiritual mark you are wrong to say spiritual marks aren't logically designated as taken on the hand or forehead because the bible itself shows us this.

    Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
    Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
    Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

    When God instructed Moses to give the commandments the second time God said it will be in their hearts and they should bind them for a sign (mark) in their hands and as a frontlet which is a band worn on the forehead. So God's commandments were to be a mark in the hand and in the forehead. In reading the scripture, can you say this is not so? The hand symbolizes your actions and the forehead symbolizes what you believe. Now lets forward to Revelation. In Revelation 14 we have the 3 angels messages and the 2nd and 3rd angels talk about those who accept the mark of the beast. In contrast, the saints do not but look at how they are identified.
    Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    And that is not the only place in Revelation where those who oppose the devil and his agenda are identified this way.
    Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    So if those who do not accept the Mark of the Beast are identified as keeping the commandments of God and in the bible see already see God stating that his commandments will be a sign then its obvious that this is spiritual and not some physical mark. I believe the devil will use a physical mark as a means of deception to have people thinking that because they do not have a physical mark that they are all good. To take the mark of the beast it can be in the forehead OR in the hand while God's mark is both in the forehead AND in the hand. To God, you need to not just believe in the mind, but also demonstrate in your actions because that is what true faith is. True faith is not just intellectual. For the devil, you can either believe his lies and follow his doctrine or you can not believe it but follow his directions out of fear of losing your life so that is why it is either hand or forehead.
     
  16. NotreDame

    NotreDame Domer Supporter

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    Which Beast are you referencing? You need to specify.
     
  17. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    The sea beast of Revelation 13.
     
  18. NotreDame

    NotreDame Domer Supporter

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    My remarks were in regards to Ancient Rome, more precisely the Roman Empire, and not papal Rome. Regardless, papal Rome does not presently meet the criteria of the sea beast of Revelation. It is possible it could in the future, as the sea beast is, in my estimation, an event yet to transpire, but I am doubtful. I do not believe the sea beast is representative of papal Rome.

    Now, to address a few ancillary remarks.

    Yeah, nothing about a "mark" to be "given" on the right hand or forehead and done so in conjunction with the purpose of purchasing goods, selling goods, engaging in commerce, etcetera. The mark in Revelation 13 is a mark people must have to engage in commercial activity. The implication is profound, regardless of who one is, or from what country they are from, they must have a mark to buy and/or sell goods, services, products etcetera, in other words, a form of identification needed to buy/sell/goods and/or services and/or products. Revelation 13 is referencing a literal mark, a literal mark to designate who is authorized to engage in commerce and who is not, whereas the verses you cited to are not discussing literal marks. So, those verses are not a compelling rebuttal.
     
  19. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    If you are viewing it from the Futurist point of view then of course you will think it as yet future. Question for you. Do you see the Little Horn in Daniel 7 as the same power as the Sea Beast of Revelation 13?
     
  20. NotreDame

    NotreDame Domer Supporter

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    Well, the sea beast and land beast of Revelation 13 has to be in the future because the sea beast is 1.) cast alive into lake of fire 2.) The land beast is also cast alive into the lake of fire and afterwards 3.) Satan is imprisoned for 1000 years and then 4.)The millennial reign of Christ commences and those part of the first resurrection reign with Christ for 1000 years . Those events are sequential.



    13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty...

    19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

    Doom of the Beast and False Prophet
    20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh...

    Satan Bound
    20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the Bkey of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years...Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
    It is possible, although unlikely, Christ had his second coming already, has already personally deposed the false prophet and beast of the sea into the lake of fire, there was transpired the first resurrection and his 1000 year reign. I am incredulous this has transpired at all, indicating to me the sea best of Revelation 13 and the land beast of Revelation 13 are a reference to future events.
     
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