How to walk in the Spirit.

fhansen · Jun 12, 2021

MMXX said:
My flesh doesn't want it, but my spirit craves it.

And that conflict will remain for the rest of your life. But that doesn't mean we aren't required to be overcoming the flesh-or that we can't overcome it with the grace of God.
"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

"What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Rom 7:24-25

Sidon · Jun 12, 2021

fhansen said:
If being made righteous only means a change in status,

Your "only means" is a terrible theology.

Listen, the born again are..

1. Heir of God
2. Joint Heir with Christ
3. Son of God
4. Brethren
5. Made Righteous.
6. Bride of Christ
7. Children OF the Light
8. Saints
9. Temple of the Holy Spirit
10. Seated in Heavenly Places
11. Translated from Darkness TO Light
12. In the Kingdom of God
13. As Jesus is, so are the born again.

So, there is your "only means a change of status".

C'mon.
wake up.
See the LIGHT.

Sidon · Jun 12, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
You failed to present the text that says God is A Spirit .

I provided the very verse , taken from a real bible, that states that God came in the flesh and is "A" Spirit.

If your "bible" does not agree, then get a real bible.
Thats on you.

Sidon · Jun 12, 2021

fhansen said:
No the only point I’ve made, repeatedly, is that God gives man actual, personal righteousness at justification, fulfilling the new covenant prophecy of Jer 31: “I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts”,

Putting the law in your mind, does not make you righteous.

God on the Cross makes you Righteoous.

You are told in the NT, that the Law is a "curse" that God on the Cross has redeemed all the born again FROM.

You are told by Paul that the born again are "dead to the Law", and yet, here you are trying to ruin someone's faith with your false gospel of "law".

You need to find out why Salvation is a Gift, and turn from the teaching of the Law in place of the Cross that is this.... Galatians 1:8

Really.
Believe it.

fhansen · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
Your "only means" is a terrible theology.

Listen, the born again are..

1. Heir of God
2. Joint Heir with Christ
3. Son of God
4. Brethren
5. Made Righteous.
6. Bride of Christ
7. Children OF the Light
8. Saints
9. Temple of the Holy Spirit
10. Seated in Heavenly Places
11. Translated from Darkness TO Light
12. In the Kingdom of God
13. As Jesus is, so are the born again.

So, there is your "only means a change of status".

C'mon.
wake up.
See the LIGHT.

But you're the one insisting that our change in status vis a vis righteousness, which is what we've been discussing, is due to imputation, to God seeing us as righteous regardless of whether or not we actually are, whether or not we sin or practice lawlessness IOW- rather than due to our becoming actually and personally righteous by grace-and overcoming sin as the result.

Is personal righteousness, born out by the way we live, not imputed righteousness, necessary for salvation?

pescador · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
I provided the very verse , taken from a real bible, that states that God came in the flesh and is "A" Spirit.

If your "bible" does not agree, then get a real bible.
Thats on you.

What, according to you, is a "real" Bible? Please present real evidence of which version of the Bible is "real" and which isn't.

ozso · Jun 12, 2021

fhansen said:
And that conflict will remain for the rest of your life. But that doesn't mean we aren't required to be overcoming the flesh-or that we can't overcome it with the grace of God.
"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

"What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Rom 7:24-25

Getting older helps a lot. When you get older obligating the flesh gets reduced to eating ice cream.

fhansen · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
God on the Cross makes you Righteoous.

Well, some explanation is called for here. God on the Cross makes those who believe in Him righteous. And that righteousness is a real, personal righteousness imparted to us. So putting the law in our minds, as a result of God on the Cross, does, indeed, make us righteous-and explains how that is accomplished, by Him, not us.
"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

Sidon said:
You are told in the NT, that the Law is a "curse" that God on the Cross has redeemed all the born again FROM.

Whew! You're still not getting this. The curse of the law means to be "under the law", to seek to satisfy God's just requirement for us to be righteous by my self-effort at fulfilling the law. This is a curse because it cannot be done. But the Spirit still fulfills the law, through love, and this is not a curse-if it was Paul certainly wouldn't bother informing us that love fulfills the law. So... again... the new covenant was never about relieving man from his personal obligation to be righteous, but about providing the means to actually fulfill that obligation, the right way, with God now.
"For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

Sidon said:
You are told by Paul that the born again are "dead to the Law", and yet, here you are trying to ruin someone's faith with your false gospel of "law".

And, as has been maintained-over and over-I don't even need to hear the law to obey it and be declared righteous (Rom 2:13). So, yes, I'm dead to the law. But that in no way implies that I no longer need to be righteous and live accordingly, to overcome sin within and due to the partnership now, the union, that God created me for. IOW, the only way I can be righteous is not by living under the law, but by the love God has given me through the Holy Spirit. Rom 5:5

Sidon said:
You need to find out why Salvation is a Gift, and turn from the teaching of the Law in place of the Cross that is this.... Galatians 1:8

Salvation is a gift because it finally fulfills the law in us, doing with God what the law cannot do, apart from Him. Galations 1:8

fhansen · Jun 12, 2021

MMXX said:
Getting older helps a lot. When you get older obligating the flesh gets reduced to eating ice cream.

Ok - I guess mainly young born again Christians need to worry about eternal torment then. We old folks no longer sin anyway, right? Right.

BNR32FAN · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
1.). There is no "original" greek text. There are only very early copies.

That’s exactly what I said. They are copies they weren’t translated in to Greek. You said they were translated into Greek.

Sidon said:
3.) The Catholic Bible , the Douay Rheims, is not made from the Greek, as you find with all Real bibles.
Its made from the Latin text.....the "Vulgate"

The Latin Vulgate was translated to Latin from the Greek texts by Gerome in the late 4th century. So your completely wrong.

fhansen · Jun 12, 2021

deleted post

Clare73 · Jun 12, 2021

fhansen said:
Ok, what makes your interpretation of Scripture necessarily better than the next?

The same thing that makes one solution to a physics problem better than the next--it is in agreement with all the laws of physics while the other is not.
So the one that agrees with the rest of all Scripture is the better, and needs no other considertion to be so.

When Scripture is the only authority one looks to in order to make determinations on the faith, with no consideration of a historical legacy or experience connected to the beginnings, then we have only our own opinions, from a perspective 2000+ years removed from the actual events, based on our reading of a Book that we've come to believe was inspired by God. And in many cases one person's Scripture-based argument is as plausible as another's, even if the two are in conflict.

Depends on how well you know and understand the Scriptures in the light of all Scripture.

Faith alone, then, doesn't save

And that sets you in disagreement with Ephesians 2:8-9 because:
1) true faith always results in works, without them it is not true faith, it is counterfeit faith; and

2) the text states: "through faith. . .not by works, so that no one can boast,"

because "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10)--100%, to which we have nothing to add.

unless it results in real righteousness: sanctification. A merely imputed righteousness isn't sufficient IOW, to make one just, and therefore salvageable, in the eyes of God.

Clare73 · Jun 12, 2021

Clare73 said:
What place do the following 12 Pauline teachings have in your "Teaching"?

". . .be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy--Lev 11:44-45.' "
(1 Peter 1:15-16)
". . .called to be holy" (1 Corinthians 1:2)

. . .slaves to sin which leads to death. . .slaves to obedience which leads to righteousness."
(Romans 6:16)

"Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity, so now
offer your body in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness." (Romans 6:19)

Now that you have. . .become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness. (Romans 6:22)

". . .let us purify ourselves from everthing that contaminates body and spirit,
perfecting (completing) holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

"Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)"
(Ephesians 5:9)

". . .pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:11)

". . .pursue righteusness, faith, love and peace. . ." (2 Timothy 2:22)

". . .all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for. . .training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"God disciplines us for our good that we may share in his holiness. . . discipline produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (Hebrews 12:10-11)

"die to sin and live for righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24)

"everyone who does what is right has been born of him." (1 John 2:29)

"he who does what is right is righteous. . .he does what is sinful is of the devil," (1 John 3:7)

"Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Romans 6:1)

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desire." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin. . .Offer them to God as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

Sidon said:
You are under the self-delusion that
if you post a verse,. . .according to your theology, then it must be true.

Pretty much. . .

Non-responsive to my post quoted above.

ozso · Jun 12, 2021

fhansen said:
Ok - I guess mainly young born again Christians need to worry about eternal torment then. We old folks no longer sin anyway, right? Right.

Less temptations.

And in my opinion a genuine Christian doesn't need to worry about eternal torment.

Clare73 · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
God is A Spirit.
Shame on you for defining Him in the same category as the Unholy spirit.

Rather juvenile. . .and self-serving. . .demonstrating no Biblical basis for one's argument.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is assertion without Biblical merit.

also, Your posts make no sense. . .if a fake bible makes no distinction between the Holy Spirit and the unholy, then this isn't worth knowing. . .the translated greek isn't helping you.

So what translation does the one who is "not a translator" use in his discussion
of the Scriptures in English, wherein he judges "the translated greek isn't helping"?. . .Still

non-responsive. . .to my post quoted in post #853.

Hmm said it quite well in the following. He can see it, what can't you?
Seems your chosen translation of the Greek into English likewise "isn't helping you."

Hmm said:
The trouble with that is that it means that God is a member of the collection of things that we categorise as Spirits in the same way that other members are, just as we may say that humans and kangeroos are both mammals.
God is not 'a', meaning an instance of anything. He is not an object within the universe and so cannot be an example of any category: He is unique.
Clare more accurately said that God is "spirit". Language cannot define God exactly of course but that's far better than your definition which is false.

Clare73 · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
The GREEK isn't the original ,its the translation of the Original letters, into the Greek.

And you know this, how?

Clare73 · Jun 12, 2021

Hmm said:
Give me something to work on and I'll be happy to. Unfortunately
I haven't seen anything yet other than some very confused ideas

He still can't figure out how to reconcile to his "Teaching" the 12 Pauline Scriptures I presented to him.

Something is amiss (translate: something is rotten in Denmark).

Hmm · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know better then to say what you just said.

Paul said..>"know you not that the Holy Spirit is in you">?
He's talking to the born again
Is he talking to you?

See that SPIRIT OF GOD?
That isn't the un-holy spirit of Satan.
Believe it.

Words can't describe and we can't envisage the full reality about God but it is more accurate to say:

Jesus is not God
The Holy Spirit is not God
The Father is not God
but
God is Jesus
God is the Holy Spirit
God is the Father

than it is to say, as you keep doing, that 'God is the Holy Spirit' and 'God is A Spirit' especially with the capitalised 'A' which makes it even worse, assuming that's possible.

Clare73 · Jun 12, 2021

MMXX said:
What's happens if you die born again, but are fallen from Grace?

Your reward might show it, because much of your doctrine would be wood, hay and stubble.

BNR32FAN · Jun 12, 2021

Sidon said:
First you stated you don't use commentaries, then you admit you use the early church writings that are commentaries created by those same.
This is why all your theology comes from them, which is why when you read "the Blood of God that saves you , keeps you saved" and you can't understand it.
Neither does any early Catholic Writer who worships Mary, and teaches "law" in place of the Cross.
As do you.
Now you understand why you do it., and why i dont.

Nope, I already understood why you don’t understand the interpretation of the scriptures, because you reject the interpretations from the men who were taught by the authors. These men didn’t have to read the scriptures and try to determine what the author meant because they were taught by the apostles themselves. They followed them and listened to them preach for years. Your whole theology is based on doctrines created by men over 1500 years after the scriptures were written who were trying to figure out what the authors were teaching. So yes I think it’s very helpful to examine the teachings of the student to determine the teachings of their teacher instead of ignoring what the student who talked and lived with the teachers on a daily basis actually wrote.

How to walk in the Spirit.

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