How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

[YahuahSaves]

You obviously know little about the customs of my religion.

Oh so is your religion like the Jews who couldn't even write or say YHWH? Personally I think spelling someone's name properly is a sign of respect. Considering also God is a title, and not a name.

 

[YahuahSaves]

That boat has long sailed.

You're still alive and your length of time on earth is unknown to you, but not unknown to God.

There are arguments that suggest such beliefs have persisted because they have a selective advantage.

Yeah it's called prayer and the answer from our God to those prayers. Such as healing and miracles.

 

[Lost Witness]

Oh so is your religion like the Jews who couldn't even write or say YHWH? Personally I think spelling someone's name properly is a sign of respect. Considering also God is a title, and not a name.

It's a Commandment and that being said it falls under the first and greatest Commandment in the Christian Faith?

 

[YahuahSaves]

Forum rules state that posts should remain on topic. The topic on this Physical & Life Science sub-forum concerns scientific evidence for God.

Read the OP's entire post again and don't cherry-pick. I had a right to post on this thread just as much as you do. since you've bought this up again, did you answer the OP's question? You do realise she was wondering how to witness to unbelievers don't you?

 

[YahuahSaves]

There's a difference between scientifically detecting God and scientifically detecting a belief in God. Your idea would detect the latter.

You do realise I was talking about brain study here? You're forgetting context again.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Yes, I read that context; I was just curious to know if the part I quoted had been said by someone.

It was an example used in response to what she was referencing. It wasn't literal. If you didn't see that in the context of the conversation it was in then don't reply to a conversation you aren't a part of.

 

[Kylie]

So you don't believe in GOD but your husband does?
Do you trust your husband?

Of course.

Now, no doubt, you are going to suggest that I should trust him when it comes to God, and if he believes, then I should trust his judgement and I should believe too.

I wonder if you'd ever say to him, "Do you trust your wife? Of course you do. So maybe you should trust her when she says there is no God, and you should give up your belief."

Funnily enough, I don't think you'd ever say that.

 

[Kylie]

Exactly the point.
Did you want to pray to God?

I wanted to find the truth.

The former: I quoted your post where you said it yourself.

Where did I ever say I had been hurt by a Christian? Please quote my post where I said that.

The latter: you took that out of context of the responses within that post. I showed you had clearly not done what you said you had. So I responded to the repetitiveness of your claim.
You still haven't answered the simple question of your intentions in your prayer. Wanting God to prove himself to you as an unbeliever is not humility.

I have very clearly stated what my intentions were. My intentions were to find the truth. You don't get to pretend I never said it just because you think it's the wrong reason.

And you don't understand the supernatural.

How can anyone understand it when it's so wildly inconsistent between different people? Is it too much to ask that the results people get actually agree with each other? You know, the way real things do?

I know he is the Son of God.

You BELIEVE very strongly he is the son of God. Thus, you have a religious belief.

Can it DISprove the existence of God?

Sure, provided there is some falsifiable claim about God.

For any falsifiable claim, science can describe some result which will disprove it. That result may or may not exist in reality, but the principle is there.

Of course, religion rarely produces any falsifiable claims. Perhaps it knows that it will fail every single possible test?

Exactly.
So why are you so adamant to obtain "evidence" of God through scientific means?

Because I want to find out the truth. If God is the truth, I want to know.

So you placed 2 chairs facing each other and sat down to talk to Jesus then?

I have done the equivilent.

Unless you think God requires the chairs for reasons, and he will refuse to talk to anyone who does not provide him with a place to sit himself.

I'm not the one calling other people "arrogant".

Like it or not, when you come in here and start telling people, "What you claim about your beliefs is wrong, I know what you really believe," despite not knowing that person at all, it is arrogant.

Again, I quoted your own words.
and I asked you to elaborate on the story about your husband wanting you to pray, to show me that I was wrong, but you ignored that.
So show me that I'm wrong? Explain your heart posture the day you prayed? Can you remember what you were thinking? God knows. Nothing is hidden from his sight.

You could not have quoted my own words where I said a Christian had hurt me, because I never said any such thing.

However, as I said before, if you can post such a claim, go ahead and do so.

 

[Kylie]

OR.............maybe the existential essence of Christianity is "encased" in writing, presently existing as potential, representational written history of the past.

And as you know, unveiling the past and attempting to write valid prose in a history book isn't the same thing as doing the next experiment at CERN, or climbing the Empire State Building.

Well apart from the buzzwords you included, such an argument would seem to render Christianity completely unverifiable. Why then should we accept it as fact over some other similar text?

 

[Kylie]

Does anyone really know 'what' Christian faith is or what it is composed of epistemologically and psychologically?

I'd say "not exactly." But we sure get a lot of overly firm opionions about its "true nature," and it usually comes by quoting Hebrews 11:1
(and one or two other favorite but extracted verses) without much-- if any -- solid context.

But I get it. Not everyone wants to do their homework.

Which fits with what Mark Twain said: “Having faith is believing in something you just know ain't true.”

Why believe anything if there's no actual evidence for it? How do you determine it's not just wishful thinking?

 

[Kylie]

I already offered a bit more back up in post #2,859. Did you not see it? You asked for brief (for what I took as a request for a quick synopsis). That's what I wrote. Brief!!

How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

Why? If I did, would you stop being an atheist? If I started believing in things that can't be tested, I'd end up believing in all sorts of things that aren't true.

www.christianforums.com

Ah, thanks, I missed that. The only post I saw was 2864 on the next page from that.

In any case, it sounds as though his solution was to interpret it as metaphorical, not literal. But by doing that, you can hold that any text is true. I could use this technique to argue for the validity of the story of Little Red Riding Hood.

 

[YahuahSaves]

It's a Commandment and that being said it falls under the first and greatest Commandment in the Christian Faith?

What's a commandment? Not spelling or saying Gods title? Not true, the scripture says it.

Ten Commandments for the Covenant Community

20 Then God gave the people all these instructions[a]:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery.

3 “You must not have any other god but me.

The lower case g in the 1st commandment means you shall not worship anything and everything that is not God, hence why we call them "little gods".

 

[AV1611VET]

Sure, provided there is some falsifiable claim about God.

As I have pointed out before, God was easy to falsify.

All they had to do is produce Jesus' body from the grave, and Christianity would have been squelched before it ever got started.

But despite all attempts -- from people who were there -- they failed.

Nation upon nation tried unsuccessfully to stamp out God, and they all failed.

Despite investing much of their money and resources.

In the near future, when the events of the book of Revelation begin to unfold, should one single event fail to come to pass, or even come to pass, but not in the proper order, then consider God falsified.

In the meantime, join the family.

Before it is too late.

 

[YahuahSaves]

The only hurt has been arrogant Christians who think they know better than me what I have done regarding religion.

I quoted it before but here it is again.
Was this genuine or were you being spiteful?
Honest answer to an honest question?
I don’t know about you, but I don’t like beating around the bush.

Where did I ever say I had been hurt by a Christian? Please quote my post where I said that.

See above.

I have very clearly stated what my intentions were. My intentions were to find the truth. You don't get to pretend I never said it just because you think it's the wrong reason.

I never said you didn't ask God to prove he is real. In fact I've mentioned that's your problem several times. Your heart is not open to seek him intently. You said so yourself that your husband asked you to try, so you did. You may have wanted to believe for your husbands sake, but that's not the same as seeking God for him.

You replied to another post declaring praying to God is the same as someone asking us to pray to Zeus. The unbelief is the heart issue but you are right - you cannot force anything. I pray that in your life journey God will draw you to himself the way he knows how because he knows you completely. (Whether you believe that or not).

How can anyone understand it when it's so wildly inconsistent between different people? Is it too much to ask that the results people get actually agree with each other? You know, the way real things do?

People who use the scripture as foundational truth coupled with the leading of the Holy Spirit do not disagree or have wildly different experiences with God.

Define what is "real" if we're talking physical realm again then we'll have to disregard everything as "not real". Including your emotional responses to my querying where you believe you were being insulted by "arrogant Christians". How does that sound? We can't reduce everything down to only everything that can be seen or "tested" it's just not reality. (Which is actually duality btw).

You BELIEVE very strongly he is the son of God. Thus, you have a religious belief.

No. Believing is one thing. Once Jesus reveals himself to you, it's no longer a belief. It's truth.
I'm not here to prove it either that's something have you to seek for yourself. I basically responded to a thread (on a Christian forum) that mentioned witnessing to unbelievers and I got jumped on. Did you answer the OP's question Kylie? Did any of you? No one else has more right to be on this thread or in this forum, than a believer. If you're so adamant you aren't ever going to believe why be here? Don't give me that bull about "trying to understand" religion, you clearly don't want to understand when people try to converse with you about God.

For any falsifiable claim, science can describe some result which will disprove it. That result may or may not exist in reality, but the principle is there.

Principle/belief... what's the difference? It really sounds to me like science doesn't have all the answers either. Certainly science can't tell you what happens when you die. If you like to live with that uncertainty, that's your choice to make.

Because I want to find out the truth. If God is the truth, I want to know.

Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened to you. Sincere humility is paramount.

I have done the equivilent.

Unless you think God requires the chairs for reasons, and he will refuse to talk to anyone who does not provide him with a place to sit himself.

I provided the example because it has helped some believers when they have trouble praying and not being able to see God with their physical eyes. It's worked for them. I don't really know if it would work for a non-believer though, unless their heart was open. God loves faith. Placing a chair for him shows great faith that you understand he is a real person, even though you can't see him with your physical eyes.

Like it or not, when you come in here and start telling people, "What you claim about your beliefs is wrong, I know what you really believe," despite not knowing that person at all, it is arrogant.

And you're a hypocrite. I didn't just "come in here" telling people what they believe. I responded to the OP and got jumped on for sharing my views on God and the bible, on a thread that discusses God. I responded and is where the conversation started. It appears like you all expected me to just run away with my tail between my legs because you athiests have claimed territory, but sorry I'm no pushover.
You want to end the conversation without snark and spite, and agree to disagree I'm all for that.

You could not have quoted my own words where I said a Christian had hurt me, because I never said any such thing.

Top of this post (there's the circular happening again.)

 

[Kylie]

As I have pointed out before, God was easy to falsify.

All they had to do is produce Jesus' body from the grave, and Christianity would have been squelched before it ever got started.

That's not falsifiablity, since it starts with the assumption that Jesus was real.

I could just as easily say that Lord of the Rings is falsifiable, all you have to do is produce Gandalf's body from when he fought the Balrog and died. The fact that you can't proves that he came back as Gandalf the White and thus the Lord of the Rings is true!

 

[AV1611VET]

That's not falsifiablity, since it starts with the assumption that Jesus was real.

You weren't there though.

The Roman Empire was.

And as far as your example goes, it is a known work of fiction already.

That's why it's sold as fiction.

But you won't see the Bible in the fiction section, will you?

 

[Kylie]

I quoted it before but here it is again.
Was this genuine or were you being spiteful?
Honest answer to an honest question?
I don’t know about you, but I don’t like beating around the bush.

It was genuine. You came in and said you doubted I was being truthful when I told you what I had done.

See above.

You didn't show where I said a Christian had hurt me.

Can you do so or not?

I never said you didn't ask God to prove he is real. In fact I've mentioned that's your problem several times. Your heart is not open to seek him intently. You said so yourself that your husband asked you to try, so you did. You may have wanted to believe for your husbands sake, but that's not the same as seeking God for him.

And here we go with the arrogance again. You are telling me that my heart is not open despite the fact that I have been abundantly clear that I am ALWAYS open to the truth.

Now stop saying this sort of thing or I will report you.

You replied to another post declaring praying to God is the same as someone asking us to pray to Zeus. The unbelief is the heart issue but you are right - you cannot force anything. I pray that in your life journey God will draw you to himself the way he knows how because he knows you completely. (Whether you believe that or not).

Wow, you just can't understand the point I was making at all, can you?

I see your God the same way you see Zeus. Nonexistant.

People who use the scripture as foundational truth coupled with the leading of the Holy Spirit do not disagree or have wildly different experiences with God.

Sure they do.

Define what is "real" if we're talking physical realm again then we'll have to disregard everything as "not real". Including your emotional responses to my querying where you believe you were being insulted by "arrogant Christians". How does that sound? We can't reduce everything down to only everything that can be seen or "tested" it's just not reality. (Which is actually duality btw).

If it can't be tested, you can't know that it's true.

No. Believing is one thing. Once Jesus reveals himself to you, it's no longer a belief. It's truth.

But Jesus won't reveal himself to me until I believe. What a vicious circle. I convince myself that Jesus is real without having any evidence, then I get some feeling that I ascribe to Jesus because it supports what I have already chosen to believe.

it's easy to convince anyone of something if they want to believe it.

I'm not here to prove it either that's something have you to seek for yourself. I basically responded to a thread (on a Christian forum) that mentioned witnessing to unbelievers and I got jumped on. Did you answer the OP's question Kylie? Did any of you? No one else has more right to be on this thread or in this forum, than a believer. If you're so adamant you aren't ever going to believe why be here? Don't give me that bull about "trying to understand" religion, you clearly don't want to understand when people try to converse with you about God.

The OP asked if there was scientific evidence for God. That is the discussion. You came in here and started giving non-scientific answers. And yet you accuse me of not staying on the topic.

Principle/belief... what's the difference? It really sounds to me like science doesn't have all the answers either. Certainly science can't tell you what happens when you die. If you like to live with that uncertainty, that's your choice to make.

Better honest ignorance than deciding that ANY answer is better than none, even if it's wrong.

Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened to you. Sincere humility is paramount.

I sought, I knocked, I got nothing.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I provided the example because it has helped some believers when they have trouble praying and not being able to see God with their physical eyes. It's worked for them. I don't really know if it would work for a non-believer though, unless their heart was open. God loves faith. Placing a chair for him shows great faith that you understand he is a real person, even though you can't see him with your physical eyes.

Good for them.

Doesn't mean that it's Jesus though.

And you're a hypocrite. I didn't just "come in here" telling people what they believe. I responded to the OP and got jumped on for sharing my views on God and the bible, on a thread that discusses God. I responded and is where the conversation started. It appears like you all expected me to just run away with my tail between my legs because you athiests have claimed territory, but sorry I'm no pushover.

You most certainly have told me what I believe.

Here's a selection...

***

You told me I found the existence of Jesus upsetting. I do not.

Read the Gospel by itself, everything Jesus did and said in his ministry on earth and tell me what is so upsetting.

You told me I had not made the effort to pray to God when I stated repeatedly that I had.

But you made no effort to truly speak to God. You did it for your husband, not because you wanted to know God for yourself.

You said I think that Jesus the person is exactly the same thing as a person's belief in Jesus. I do not.

You see them as one and the same. They are not. Jesus is God.

You stated that I had not sincerely sought the truth about God when I stated repeatedly that I had.

Doubt it.

You said that a Christian must have hurt me. You seem to think that only something like that could cause a person to lack belief in God.

Whatever a Christian has done to hurt you is not a reflection of God. He loves you.

You said that my interpretation MUST be wrong simply because I don't have the same interpretation as you.

I didn't say you lied, I wasn't sure if I remembered you saying you read the bible or it was other posters here, but just incase you had read it, then you mustn't have interpreted it properly, otherwise you would have understood my reference to living stones.

You said our conversation was making me upset because you were trying to get me to think more deeply about "these things" (which were just you telling me what I believed and that someone must have hurt me).

I was hoping to get you to think more deeply about these things, but it's obviously making you upset.

You made fun of @ruthiesea because she chooses to write G-d instead of God. This is something that people do as a sign of respect, but you instead chose to tease her.

I love how you keep writing G-d as though it's difficult to spell the title properly. Speaks volumes

You said I was not open to whatever the truth is.

Your heart is not open to seek him intently.

And you gaslight. You didn't get "jumped on" for sharing your views on God, you got jumped on for telling people that what they said about their own beliefs was wrong.

"I hold such-and-such position."

"No you don't, you must have this other position. I can be sure of this, despite the fact that I don't know anything about you other than what you've said about yourself (and I choose to believe you are wrong about that anyway)."

And you're a hypocrite. I didn't just "come in here" telling people what they believe. I responded to the OP and got jumped on for sharing my views on God and the bible, on a thread that discusses God.

So yeah, don't tell me you haven't done it.

***

You want to end the conversation without snark and spite, and agree to disagree I'm all for that.

I want you to accept what people say and stop telling them that they are wrong about their own belief position.

Top of this post (there's the circular happening again.)

You quoted NOTHING at the top of this post.

 

[AV1611VET]

.

 

[Kylie]

* cough *

Sorry.

Just clearing my throat.

You got a point to make, or are you just wasting everyone's time?

 

[AV1611VET]

You got a point to make, or are you just wasting everyone's time?

Just clearing my throat.