How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

[dlamberth]

So did the scientists at L'Aquila and told the citizens that it was safe to go back to their homes.

Until the earth, which can't lie, shook again and crushed them.

So much for the window of science.

Science gives us the geological process of plate tectonic for why the earth quake at L'Aquila happened. The Earth has given science a window into the process of the African Plate colliding with the Eurasian Plate. And has been for millions of years. Which is a lot longer than the Biblical Creation story of of 6000 years. The Bible Creation story is falsified by what the Earth is showing us.

 

[dlamberth]

You're confusing Jesus with new age ideology.

Jesus prayed. And he taught prayer.
Who did Jesus pray to?
Have you ever considered it.
It's not new age.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Whether of not G-d exists is not within the purview of science. Science is about what and how things occur. Religion is about who. Science does not preclude the existence if G-d. Either you believe or you do not.

I love how you keep writing G-d as though it's difficult to spell the title properly. Speaks volumes

 

[YahuahSaves]

Jesus prayed. And he taught prayer.
Who did Jesus pray to?
Have you ever considered it.
It's not new age.

The heavenly Father (not "conciousness").
The Holy trinity (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) are the same God (1 God, 3 persons). When Jesus was on earth he was fully God and fully man. Those who are saved by grace (through faith) become children of God. But you (nor I) are God, or will become God, and never will be God. your prayers to your consciousness are not to God.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Are you one of them?

Possibly.

I say that because I was only a child. I grew up in a Christian household, went to Christian primary and secondary school, went to mass twice a week (some of which I enjoyed), broadly did what I was told, said my prayers, went to Sunday school, had religious instruction, had my confirmation, etc. I believed what I was told, that God would reward me if I was good and punish me if I was bad, but I never sensed any presence, or relationship, or heard any 'voice' beyond my own inner monologue, etc. When I asked the priests they said it would come with time, but it didn't. By the time I was into my teens, with a broader mix of friends, many non-religious, the whole business seemed a pointless waste of time. I'm not sure if that counts as 'earnestly seeking' God. ISTM that I did all that could reasonably be expected.

So, for some reason, religious belief didn't 'take' for me. This is not because I was refractory to supernatural belief in my early years - I had believed in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy; as a toddler, I'd had a scrappy little knitted animal that was my personal friend and confidant; I believed the lad down the street had swallowed a stone and made it come out of his belly button, and so on. But as I grew older, those beliefs fell away. I have a faint nostalgia for the innocent conviction of those beliefs, but not for any religious belief - only the singing, the incense, the ornate robes of the Latin mass - which suggests that I never really believed.

I'm talking about God's truth here. Science can't disprove God exists, so why are you using it as an excuse to not believe? Where do you think you came from? What truly gives you life?

As has been said, God's truth is whatever the believer thinks it is. Science has nothing to say about God or any other unfalsifiable/supernatural beliefs. I don't use it as an excuse not to believe - my lack of belief predates any knowledge or understanding of science.

I came from the physical union of my parents, and they from theirs, in an evolutionary chain reaching back to the first molecular replicators on the early Earth. I have life as a result of that process. Life, fundamentally, is complex organic chemistry using redox reactions; it's basically a slow burn, releasing energy as heat and activity.

 

[AV1611VET]

Science gives us the geological process of plate tectonic for why the earth quake at L'Aquila happened. The Earth has given science a window into the process of the African Plate colliding with the Eurasian Plate. And has been for millions of years. Which is a lot longer than the Biblical Creation story of of 6000 years. The Bible Creation story is falsified by what the Earth is showing us.

What point are you making, chief?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

We cannot know the fullness of God in the same way we can't know another person's inner workings. But we can know him in spirit. (The living God) He was a man (Jesus the Son who is the express image of the Father) and he still reveals himself the same to those who believe. The Father is in the Son, the Son is in us and we are in him.

As I said, not everyone who believes in God believes that.

The fact of having known someone your whole life is different from the feeling that you've known someone your whole life (see Capgras syndrome).

Absolutely. So you look at the world around you and believe there is no intelligent designer behind it? You base that on "fact"? Unbelief is crazy.

That's a non-sequitur.

However, I do look at the world around me and see no reason to think it involves any intelligent design. I base that on the lack of evidence for such a designer, some understanding of how order and complexity can arise from simple interactions, and that the world (universe) we see has characteristics consistent with emergent complexity but which we would not expect to see from the intelligent designer proposed by, for example, Christian belief.

IOW, I think the idea of intelligent design is redundant, and a very poor explanation (given reasonable criteria for what makes a good explanation).

Proposing an intelligent designer has issues beyond Occam's razor, which can be summed up as 'the inexplicable is not an explanation'.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The bible talks about spiritual life and spiritual death - that's what I'm referring to. Before coming to Christ we're "dead" in transgressions and sin.

Ezekiel 37:1-14

Yay! I'm a spiritual zombie!!

OK. So what's the practical difference between spiritual life and spiritual death? Does it show? How can you tell? Or is it just a way of talking about belief and non-belief?

 

[ruthiesea]

I love how you keep writing G-d as though it's difficult to spell the title properly. Speaks volumes

You obviously know little about the customs of my religion.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

"Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened to you".

Do your own seeking, I guarantee for those with a heart earnestly seeking the Lord, he will reveal himself.

That boat has long sailed. To me, your God is just like the thousands of gods you don't believe in. As someone said, "I just believe in one less god than you".

P.s. ... The only reason I mentioned part of my story of coming to Christ, is because I want people to know just how kind, merciful, loving, faithful and true he really is.

I don't doubt that your belief is utterly convincing to you - as are many other people's differing beliefs to them.

Humans in general seem predisposed to supernatural or superstitious beliefs and find some benefit in them. There are arguments that suggest such beliefs have persisted because they have a selective advantage.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Regardless of what the discussions are, you're still on a Christian forum.
Perhaps find a separate forum that discusses scientific evidence for God if you don't like the bible being mentioned?

Forum rules state that posts should remain on topic. The topic on this Physical & Life Science sub-forum concerns scientific evidence for God.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I rarely type with my mouth, but...

Light (as we know) comes in a wide variety of wavelengths/frequencies. A spectrum measures the relative amount of each frequency of light in each thing that emits or reflects light. If "god is light" then what does the spectrum of that light look like, or "what is the spectrum of god?"

That question I don't know haven't really thought about that and don't know enough about the nature of light to be able to answer that. What I do know is that light has color as in a rainbow. All colors come from three primary sources red blue and yellow a trinity if you will of color.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Perhaps we subconsciously sense our senses have been muzzled and we seek way to remove the scales from our senses.

We're curious and adventurous creatures, that's all it takes.

 

[AV1611VET]

Humans in general seem predisposed to supernatural or superstitious beliefs and find some benefit in them. There are arguments that suggest such beliefs have persisted because they have a selective advantage.

Well ... you know what they say:

"There are no atheists in foxholes."

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes as far as I understood what he was saying.

Given your post #2,800, I have my doubts - but maybe I've misunderstood @SelfSim all along...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

But what the light meter is reading out is technical data, its not the experience of say the color red. Yet red is as real as any objective in the world. The ironic thing is even though color is not something that occupies space or has mass you support its objectivity by claiming that we can measure it objectively with a light meter even to calibrate the color on you monitor like its the basis for what color is or should be.

You need to be careful to distinguish the phenomenal (secondary) properties from the physical (primary) properties. Colours are not physical properties out there in the world, they are the perceptions of physical properties. Colour-constancy is a good way to demonstrate this.

"Locke influentially distinguished between primary and secondary qualities; the former are objective features of things, such as shapes, sizes and weights, whereas the latter are mind-dependent, e.g., colors, tastes, sounds, and smells. This contrast was already emphasized by the Greek atomists and was revived in modern times by Galileo, Descartes, and Boyle."​

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy​

So here we have some immaterial phenomena that has realness and fact that is applied in the world

It is a real perception, and we do apply it to the world (because it makes the world easier to understand), but it's not a property of the world, it's a property of our perception of the world.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well ... you know what they say:

"There are no atheists in foxholes."

Yes, 'they' say a lot of things, not all true. Many soldiers returning from the 1st & 2nd World Wars had lost their faith as a result of the carnage they experienced.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

There is a different kind of evidence for believers as Hebrews 11:1 says faith is " the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". That evidence of things unseen are what we can derive directly from our conscious experience about the world, how faith in divine ideas is inherent in human cognition and not some after thought that we have been indoctrinated with. How we can know transcendent truths about the world beyond its material appearance.

Humans may be predisposed to faith in divine ideas, but that doesn't mean we can know 'transcendent truths' or even that there are such things. The particular divine ideas we have faith in typically are the result of indoctrination or enculturation. How else do you explain the cultural & geographic variations in divine beliefs?

 

[Hans Blaster]

That question I don't know haven't really thought about that and don't know enough about the nature of light to be able to answer that. What I do know is that light has color as in a rainbow. All colors come from three primary sources red blue and yellow a trinity if you will of color.

I was trying to point out that saying "god is light" is a very odd thing to say if you think about what light is and what its properties are.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, 'they' say a lot of things, not all true. Many soldiers returning from the 1st & 2nd World Wars had lost their faith as a result of the carnage they experienced.

Perhaps the atheists-turned-saints could evangelize them again?

And for the record, how long did these "many soldiers" stay faithless?

Remember the story of the Prodigal Son?