How to pronounce YHWH (in Hebrew)

[ViaCrucis]

The "w" in the word is from the German and Dutch pronunciation of the letter "w", which is "v" in English.

In a song I heard, the Hebrew of "who is and who was and who will come" sounded something lke "aser haYAH veh HOVEH v'yavo. (Higher case letters are my own).

I could be totally wrong of course, but I found the Hebrew pronunciation in that song interesting, because if the Hebrew of the above is what God's name is derived from, then to me it seems likely that the vowels would then be Yahoveh, or Yahveh (or Yahweh - which, though in English is pronounced with the English sound for the letter "w", should be pronounced as "v", because it's a Germanic "w").

Ancient Hebrew was pronounced with vowels, but written without vowels.

Of course Hebrew was pronounced with vowels.

The Hebrew letter Vav/Waw can take on several pronunciations depending on the context of the word. It can sound like a 'V', it can sound like a 'W', and it can even become a pseudo-vowel where it can make a long 'u' or long 'o' sound.

You don't need to guess about these things, you can learn Hebrew from people who study and speak the language. You can learn from Hebrew scholars. That's not a bad thing.

Ignoring that and instead relying on your own speculations and then attributing your guesses to Divine Inspiration by claiming God "confirmed" it or God "told you" or some variation of that is neither good nor spiritual. That's not believing the Bible, that's not trusting in God, that's not the work and power of the Holy Spirit. That is just old fashioned human carnality, the sinful, fallen impulse of the old man pushing us to rely on ourselves.

The spiritual danger of this should be obvious. We do not turn inward to know the things of God, but outward to trust in the external word of God. The historic name for this turning-inward for spiritual things is known as Enthusiasm. In modern English enthusiasm simply refers to being passionate about something; but in its original sense it referred to an esoteric spiritual practice of viewing God as inward, located within the self; literally from a Greek verb meaning to be in a state of having God within, enthousiasmos, from entheos, "God-within". Enthusiasm is a spiritual sickness, a form of spiritual delusion in which a person ceases to look to God where He is gives and shows Himself, e.g. His word; but instead believes themselves to be able to know God through an unmediated direct experience. Scripture, however, teaches us plainly that we do not experience God without mediation, but rather we experience God solely through the mediation of Christ, "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5), this is He who said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" and also "If you have known Me you have known the Father also".

The Holy Spirit works, acts, and illuminates our minds with the word of God, not through secret counsel; but in the public, plain, and revealed things which have been made known to the Church.

This spiritual battle against false spirituality has been going on for two thousand years. Heretics in antiquity, broadly known as Gnostics, were those who claimed to have special knowledge and insight from God, they were bearers of divine secrets that were otherwise hidden from others, known only to the few who could access it. The Gnostics were not a unified group, but an umbrella term describing a wide range of groups and individuals. Many of them also engaged in magic formulas, believing that there was magic in certain sounds, that certain sounds contained power. In addition to Hermeticism and other forms of Pagan "magic". That there is power in "barbarous names", words or strings of sounds which are intrinsically power. When someone promotes something that is spoken about in ancient heretical texts, that is concerning--it should be even more concerning when it appears without direct connection. The devil is seldom clever, he recycles his old lies frequently.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zao is life]

Of course Hebrew was pronounced with vowels.

The Hebrew letter Vav/Waw can take on several pronunciations depending on the context of the word. It can sound like a 'V', it can sound like a 'W', and it can even become a pseudo-vowel where it can make a long 'u' or long 'o' sound.

You don't need to guess about these things, you can learn Hebrew from people who study and speak the language. You can learn from Hebrew scholars. That's not a bad thing.

Ignoring that and instead relying on your own speculations and then attributing your guesses to Divine Inspiration by claiming God "confirmed" it or God "told you" or some variation of that is neither good nor spiritual. That's not believing the Bible, that's not trusting in God, that's not the work and power of the Holy Spirit. That is just old fashioned human carnality, the sinful, fallen impulse of the old man pushing us to rely on ourselves.

The spiritual danger of this should be obvious. We do not turn inward to know the things of God, but outward to trust in the external word of God. The historic name for this turning-inward for spiritual things is known as Enthusiasm. In modern English enthusiasm simply refers to being passionate about something; but in its original sense it referred to an esoteric spiritual practice of viewing God as inward, located within the self; literally from a Greek verb meaning to be in a state of having God within, enthousiasmos, from entheos, "God-within". Enthusiasm is a spiritual sickness, a form of spiritual delusion in which a person ceases to look to God where He is gives and shows Himself, e.g. His word; but instead believes themselves to be able to know God through an unmediated direct experience. Scripture, however, teaches us plainly that we do not experience God without mediation, but rather we experience God solely through the mediation of Christ, "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5), this is He who said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" and also "If you have known Me you have known the Father also".

The Holy Spirit works, acts, and illuminates our minds with the word of God, not through secret counsel; but in the public, plain, and revealed things which have been made known to the Church.

This spiritual battle against false spirituality has been going on for two thousand years. Heretics in antiquity, broadly known as Gnostics, were those who claimed to have special knowledge and insight from God, they were bearers of divine secrets that were otherwise hidden from others, known only to the few who could access it. The Gnostics were not a unified group, but an umbrella term describing a wide range of groups and individuals. Many of them also engaged in magic formulas, believing that there was magic in certain sounds, that certain sounds contained power. In addition to Hermeticism and other forms of Pagan "magic". That there is power in "barbarous names", words or strings of sounds which are intrinsically power. When someone promotes something that is spoken about in ancient heretical texts, that is concerning--it should be even more concerning when it appears without direct connection. The devil is seldom clever, he recycles his old lies frequently.

-CryptoLutheran

Your high horse accusing those you think are less informed than you never read what I said. Whatever I said did not warrant the "Ignoring that and instead relying on your own speculations and then attributing your guesses to Divine Inspiration" nonsense in your lengthy and unnecessary reply, because I wasn't claiming Divine inspiration.

PS: We're allowed to notice things. We don't need to always "consult" those who are so puffed up that they cannot see.

If you were addressing a complaint against someone else, then I don't need to hear your pontificating sermon either.

He who exalts himself will be humbled.

Goodbye.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Your high horse accusing those you think are less informed than you never read what I said. Whatever I said did not warrant the "Ignoring that and instead relying on your own speculations and then attributing your guesses to Divine Inspiration" nonsense in your lengthy and unnecessary reply, because I wasn't claiming Divine inspiration.

PS: We're allowed to notice things. We don't need to always "consult" those who are so puffed up that they cannot see.

If you were addressing a complaint against someone else, then I don't need to hear your pontificating sermon either.

He who exalts himself will be humbled.

Goodbye.

I was still waking up when I responded, I thought I was responding to another poster who had made some seriously problematic claims. So I need to apologize, and apologize severely.

-CryptoLUtheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Your high horse accusing those you think are less informed than you never read what I said. Whatever I said did not warrant the "Ignoring that and instead relying on your own speculations and then attributing your guesses to Divine Inspiration" nonsense in your lengthy and unnecessary reply, because I wasn't claiming Divine inspiration.

PS: We're allowed to notice things. We don't need to always "consult" those who are so puffed up that they cannot see.

If you were addressing a complaint against someone else, then I don't need to hear your pontificating sermon either.

He who exalts himself will be humbled.

Goodbye.

This:

You don't need to guess about these things, you can learn Hebrew from people who study and speak the language. You can learn from Hebrew scholars. That's not a bad thing.

Ignoring that and instead relying on your own speculations and then attributing your guesses to Divine Inspiration by claiming God "confirmed" it or God "told you" or some variation of that is neither good nor spiritual. That's not believing the Bible, that's not trusting in God, that's not the work and power of the Holy Spirit. That is just old fashioned human carnality, the sinful, fallen impulse of the old man pushing us to rely on ourselves.

The spiritual danger of this should be obvious. We do not turn inward to know the things of God, but outward to trust in the external word of God. The historic name for this turning-inward for spiritual things is known as Enthusiasm. In modern English enthusiasm simply refers to being passionate about something; but in its original sense it referred to an esoteric spiritual practice of viewing God as inward, located within the self; literally from a Greek verb meaning to be in a state of having God within, enthousiasmos, from entheos, "God-within". Enthusiasm is a spiritual sickness, a form of spiritual delusion in which a person ceases to look to God where He is gives and shows Himself, e.g. His word; but instead believes themselves to be able to know God through an unmediated direct experience. Scripture, however, teaches us plainly that we do not experience God without mediation, but rather we experience God solely through the mediation of Christ, "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5), this is He who said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" and also "If you have known Me you have known the Father also".

The Holy Spirit works, acts, and illuminates our minds with the word of God, not through secret counsel; but in the public, plain, and revealed things which have been made known to the Church.

This spiritual battle against false spirituality has been going on for two thousand years. Heretics in antiquity, broadly known as Gnostics, were those who claimed to have special knowledge and insight from God, they were bearers of divine secrets that were otherwise hidden from others, known only to the few who could access it. The Gnostics were not a unified group, but an umbrella term describing a wide range of groups and individuals. Many of them also engaged in magic formulas, believing that there was magic in certain sounds, that certain sounds contained power. In addition to Hermeticism and other forms of Pagan "magic". That there is power in "barbarous names", words or strings of sounds which are intrinsically power. When someone promotes something that is spoken about in ancient heretical texts, that is concerning--it should be even more concerning when it appears without direct connection. The devil is seldom clever, he recycles his old lies frequently.

Is entirely written because I confused you with another poster in this thread. I thought I was addressing someone else, and I am ashamed.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zao is life]

The Word of God:

Purely by accident, one day, I noticed the letters of the Tetragrammaton consistently pronounced as vowels elsewhere in scripture.
And I found they function as vowels.

I found what you say very interesting. So are you saying that the letters of the Tetragrammaton are actually vowels and not consonants?

I find it very interesting because obviously, if you're talking nonsense, anyone who wants to, can check if there are any words in the Hebrew Old Testament scriptures where the letters used in the Tetragrammaton are consonants and not vowels (because I know of no language that would use any letter to express a consonant and a vowel interchangeably - it would turn the written language into a completely confused nonsense).

 

[Zao is life]

This:

Is entirely written because I confused you with another poster in this thread. I thought I was addressing someone else, and I am ashamed.

-CryptoLutheran

You are forgiven with regard to your reply to me. It's forgotten. I will add though that I don't want to discuss another poster with a third person.

Besides this I would rather you did not cause the other poster you are talking about to stop posting so quickly, because if I understand him correctly, he's basically saying that in the rest of the Hebrew Old Testament, the letters used in the Tetragrammaton are vowels, not consonants - so if anyone believes he's talking nonsense, then anyone who wants to, can check if there are any words in the Hebrew Old Testament scriptures where the letters used in the Tetragrammaton are consonants and not vowels (because I know of no language that would use any letter to express a consonant and a vowel interchangeably - it would turn the written language into completely confused nonsense).

This is why it is important enough IMO (it being concerning the Name of God) to inquire or prod him without assuming anything about the source of his assertion before any research has even been done, and examples given in the Hebrew scriptures where the letters are used as consonants and not vowels, i.e aside from the letters of the Tetragrammaton.

 

[Zao is life]

I would follow the ancient Israelite practice. I would not write and say "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" except in the academic/educational contexts. I would prefer to write either "the LORD" or "YHWH".

This is what I've noticed after recently comparing the Greek and the Hebrew for "who was and who is and who is to come" (I don't know what the exact pronunciation of the sacred name should be):

Revelation 1:8 (Textus Receptus):
εγω ειμι το α και το ω αρχη και τελος λεγει ο κυριος ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος ο παντοκρατωρ.

I [ego] am [eimi: exist] the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

The first two words are:-

1. Strong's Greek Dictionary #1473: ego eg-o' a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when emphatic):--I, me.

2. Strong's Greek Dictionary #1510: eimi i-mee' the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):--am, have been, X it is I, was.

The first letters of "I am alpha and omega" are:

ε ε α ω
E E A Ω
E e a o

The Hebrew name Eliyaho/Eliyahu means "the mighty Yah" (Yah/Yaho/Yahu). It's the name of the prophet Elijah (Strong's Greek Dictionary #452).
​

IAH/Yah/Yaho/Yahu:

(Greek IAH. Hebrew YAH). The sacred name (See Strong's Greek Dictionary #3050).

The Hebrew of "who is and who was, and who is to come" written in Roman letters is, "asher haya v'hoveh v'yavo".

haya v'hoveh sounds just like the sacred name (to me, at least): Yahoveh/Yahuveh/Yahveh/Yehovah (Jehovah).

"I [ego] am [eimi: exist] the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8).

Greek: IAH/Eeao/Eeahu
Hebrew: Yah/Yaho/Yahu

I don't know what the correct pronunciation is, and pronunciation may be a matter of accent/dialect/language (rather than there being a "correct" pronunciation of the name of God), but it seems to me that the words "I am who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the Ending" are all wrapped up in His name: Yahoveh/Jehovah;

and since Jesus gave us His name in Revelation 1:8, it means it's not illegitimate for His servants who know His name, to use His name - as long as we do not use His name in vain, of course. I would also think that God understands and knows that pronunciation is a matter of accent/dialect/language, so I don't believe that God demands a "correct" pronunciation of His name.
​

@tonychanyt So during the days of the second temple only the high priest of the Jews may have been allowed to utter the name of God - and only once a year on the day of Atonement - but Jesus is our High Priest who has entered the Holy Place behind the curtain on our behalf once for all, and sprinkled the mercy seat with His own blood (Hebrews 6:19-20; Hebrews 9:11-12; Hebrews 9:24-26).

So Hebrews 10:19-23 exhorts us,

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, by the fresh and living way that he inaugurated for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
let us draw near with a sincere heart in the assurance that faith brings, because we have had our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. And let us hold unwaveringly to the hope that we confess, for the one who made the promise is trustworthy."

IMO the question a Christian who is clothed with Christ's righteousness but is too fearful to utter the name of God (even though Jesus gave us His name) should ask himself, is this:

Does this reluctance and fear reflect reverence for God, or does it carry the same spiritual motive for Adam hiding from God when God called him in the garden, and Adam and Eve sewing clothing of fig leaves to cover their nakedness?

Jesus is our High Priest. He has entered the Most Holy Place once for all for us, with His own blood, and He has given us His name.

 

[tonychanyt]

and since Jesus gave us His name in Revelation 1:8, it means it's not illegitimate for His servants who know His name, to use His name - as long as we do not use His name in vain, of course. I would also think that God understands and knows that pronunciation is a matter of accent/dialect/language, so I don't believe that God demands a "correct" pronunciation of His name.

Right.

Do you know the correct pronunciation of YHWH? There are people who think they do.

 

[Zao is life]

I don't know what the correct pronunciation is, and pronunciation may be a matter of accent/dialect/language (rather than there being a "correct" pronunciation of the name of God), but it seems to me that the words "I am who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the Ending" are all wrapped up in His name: Yahoveh/Jehovah;​

Right.

Do you know the correct pronunciation of YHWH? There are people who think they do.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

During the Second Temple period (535 b.c. to 70 a.d.), Michael Marlowe:

it is said that the Name was spoken only by priests in the Temple.​

The first Greek translations of the Hebrew books, collectively known as the Septuagint, reflect this custom in various ways. In some ancient manuscripts of the Greek version the tetragrammaton is neither translated nor transliterated, but given in Hebrew characters (**without vowels**). This effectively hides the pronunciation from those who are not already familiar with it. Jerome mentions that he had seen such manuscripts in his day. 4 In some manuscripts a blank space is left where the Name would appear.​

Wiki:

Rabbinic Judaism teaches that the name is forbidden to all except the High Priest of Israel, who should only speak it in the Holy of Holies of the Temple in Jerusalem on Yom Kippur. He then pronounces the name "just as it is written."[26] As each blessing was made, the people in the courtyard were to prostrate themselves completely as they heard it spoken aloud. As the Temple has not been rebuilt since its destruction in 70, most modern Jews never pronounce YHWH but instead read Adonai ("My Lord") during prayer and while reading the Torah and as HaShem ("The Name") at other times.[27][28] Similarly, the Vulgate used Dominus ("The Lord") and most English translations of the Bible write "the LORD" for YHWH and "the LORD God", "the LORD God" or "the Sovereign LORD" for Adonai YHWH instead of transcribing the name.​

Centuries later, Wiki:

Vowel and cantillation marks were added to the older consonantal layer of the Bible between 600 CE and the beginning of the 10th century.[24][nb 1] The scholars who preserved the pronunciation of the Bibles were known as the Masoretes.​

The Masoretes were guessing when they added vowel marks to the tetragrammaton.

More centuries later, King James Bible translated it as "Jehovah".

Today, Wiki:

the scholarly consensus is that the original pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was Yahweh.​

I would follow the ancient Israelite practice. I would not write and say "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" except in the academic/educational contexts. I would prefer to write either "the LORD" or "YHWH".

The original pronunciation of the name of God was so holy, that the priests would not say it. and references to Him were written as YHWH in the Biblical text. As time went on, the pronunciation was so suppressed that it was forgotten by successive priests, and now we have no idea of how it was meant to be pronounced. All our attempts to pronounce God's name are mere guesswork. When Moses asked for God's name, His answer was "I AM who I AM". Jesus linked this when He said, "Before Abraham, I AM."

An interesting point to make is that the YHWH of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ of the New Testament. This is because the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. So it is right to refer to YHWH as Jesus Christ, because the name of Jesus Christ is above every other name, that at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow.

The way to understand passages of the Old Testament is to put Jesus Christ in the middle of the passage. What this means is that we can understand events and passages in the Old Testament when we consider them as being about Jesus Christ. For example, Noah's Ark is all about Jesus being our refuge from the wrath and judgment of God, and that Noah and his family were saved by God's grace and not by an meritorious works they had done. Joshua is a type of Christ who led the people into the promised land. Actually it wasn't Joshua who defeated Jericho, it was Jesus Christ Himself. He appeared before Joshua as the commander of the host, and allowed Joshua to worship Him. This was no angel, because no angel would allow himself to be worshiped. The pillar of cloud that led the children of Israel to the Red Sea and then went around to stand behind them between them and the advancing Egyptians, was a type of Jesus, leading us and protecting us against the forces of evil. These are just some examples of Jesus appearing right through the Old Testament. He demonstrated much more to the two disciples at Emmaus.

We know it was Jesus in the Old Testament, because the Scripture says that the Father is a Spirit, and no man has seen Him at any time. This means that all appearances of YHWH were of Jesus before He became a human being.

 

[tonychanyt]

We know it was Jesus in the Old Testament, because the Scripture says that the Father is a Spirit, and no man has seen Him at any time. This means that all appearances of YHWH were of Jesus before He became a human being.

Thanks for sharing.

Can you elaborate on your logical steps?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I realize I'm rather late to this discussion, but I have some vested interest in this. I am a "musician" (of sorts). I bring that up only for context in what follows. I have prayed for wisdom and revelation concerning this topic. I've watched quite a few videos online about the topic as well.

I share these two, just as reference points for what I'm sharing now. I feel on a subject of this nature, we will all likely have to agree to disagree and what I share now is not an attempt to persuade anyone one way or the other.

So I prayed and sought the Lord on this topic and one day I got inspiration to write this song:

I've not written a song in several years, so (for me) that alone is a significant indicator of divine influence here.

So I fall in the camp of Yahweh, but what I do revert to is this. I would never, EVER call my earthly father by his name. It's disrespectful to do so, at least I was raised that way. I do believe the Lord gave us His name to know who He is (name's reveal character) and in several scriptures His name is given as a source of protection, blessing, or life. So I don't see it as wrong to use in certain circumstances, but the overwhelming majority of the time, I believe we should refer to Him for who He is:

"our Father in Heaven" ~ Jesus (32 A.D. probably)

 

[tonychanyt]

It's Yahuah.

What is Yahuah?

 

[jonojim1337]

It's Yahuah that's why the prophets' names are Eliyahu, Yirmiyahu and Yahshua.

 

[tonychanyt]

It's Yahuah that's why the prophets' names are Eliyahu, Yirmiyahu and Yahshua.

So what is the proper pronunciation of YHWH?

 

[jonojim1337]

So what is the proper pronunciation of YHWH?

Yaaa-huuuu-aaaa

 

[tonychanyt]

Yaaa-huuuu-aaaa

reference?

 

[jonojim1337]

reference?

Sorry I could have given it to you earlier

 

[tonychanyt]

Sorry I could have given it to you earlier

Can you quote the relevant content?

 

[jonojim1337]

Can you quote the relevant content?