How to Interpret Tongues & Prophecy……& How to speak in tongues.

[sandman]

You were doing so well,....

Yes, we are sealed with The Holy Spirit when we are reborn, and have His fruits and the new nature, but it is the filling of The Holy Spirit afterwards that brings in the gifts. "Be ye filled,.."

The best English translation would be "spirituals" but gifts is more than acceptable.

Not sure why you think the word gifts is acceptable.

That word spiritual (pneumatikos) refers to “spiritual matters”, “things that proceeds from the spirit”. In most instances words added by translators have been helpful….but not in these verses 1Co 14:1 & 12 in addition to 1Co 12:1 and 1Co 13:2. Those added words of Gift have totally changed the perception of what is being referred to.

I have no doubt that you highly esteem the integrity of the written Word, as do I. ….and that God does not use words haphazardly. So, when God chose to use the word (phanerosis) manifestation in 1Co 12:7 He meant exactly that. If He had wanted to say “gifts” he would have used that word…. and I would have no problem with that ….but he did not. God set them up as a manifestation OF THE SPIRIT…Not as gifts. (Gifts of healing is referenced that way because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation, an operation or evidence of the spirit.)

What’s the difference between gift and manifestation. …..A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is an evidence, a showing forth of something you already have.

If we call these a gift…. Believers are put in the position of waiting for God to give us one or more of the so-called “gifts” listed in verses 1Co 12:8-10. It stimulates believers to hope, desire, pray and beg for something, and then to question their righteousness, their goodness, and their worthiness, as to why they do not receive it….When in most cases, the person is born again and has the ability to operate the manifestation, but is unlearned, because they think it is a gift.

If I seem impassioned about this … I am. Over the years I have had to deal with many believers who thought it was a gift and they thought were not worthy enough to receive it. So, to me it is a misleading word that has thrown a deceptive connotation on the manifestation of the spirit.

 

[ARBITER01]

Not sure why you think the word gifts is acceptable.

That word spiritual (pneumatikos) refers to “spiritual matters”, “things that proceeds from the spirit”. In most instances words added by translators have been helpful….but not in these verses 1Co 14:1 & 12 in addition to 1Co 12:1 and 1Co 13:2. Those added words of Gift have totally changed the perception of what is being referred to.

I have no doubt that you highly esteem the integrity of the written Word, as do I. ….and that God does not use words haphazardly. So, when God chose to use the word (phanerosis) manifestation in 1Co 12:7 He meant exactly that. If He had wanted to say “gifts” he would have used that word…. and I would have no problem with that ….but he did not. God set them up as a manifestation OF THE SPIRIT…Not as gifts. (Gifts of healing is referenced that way because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation, an operation or evidence of the spirit.)

What’s the difference between gift and manifestation. …..A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is an evidence, a showing forth of something you already have.

If we call these a gift…. Believers are put in the position of waiting for God to give us one or more of the so-called “gifts” listed in verses 1Co 12:8-10. It stimulates believers to hope, desire, pray and beg for something, and then to question their righteousness, their goodness, and their worthiness, as to why they do not receive it….When in most cases, the person is born again and has the ability to operate the manifestation, but is unlearned, because they think it is a gift.

If I seem impassioned about this … I am. Over the years I have had to deal with many believers who thought it was a gift and they thought were not worthy enough to receive it. So, to me it is a misleading word that has thrown a deceptive connotation on the manifestation of the spirit.

Yea, you're just a little bit too hung up about it my friend. You need spiritual growth past where you are at so that you can move onward with GOD. The goal to to become like Jesus, not become a walking library, that's what baptist's do.

A gift is something given for you to use, or in the case of the greater gifts, for GOD to use through you to His glory. That is the correct understanding of what a manifestation is in our bible.

I wasn't born with the gifts of The Spirit, I was only re-born with Him and His fruits. It took me roughly 6 months or so before I received the filling of The Spirit, and His gifts then became active. I don't regret one bit of it.

Laters

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It is interesting that the Holy Spirit did not include an instruction manual with the list of the Spiritual gifts, and yet I am reading a number of attempts at an instruction manual. I wonder why the Holy Spirit didn't provide one to save all the different opinions about their use? Maybe He is wiser than we are.

 

[Guojing]

It is interesting that the Holy Spirit did not include an instruction manual with the list of the Spiritual gifts, and yet I am reading a number of attempts at an instruction manual. I wonder why the Holy Spirit didn't provide one to save all the different opinions about their use? Maybe He is wiser than we are.

Paul did give an instruction manual in 1 Cor 12-14, but people don't want to understand it literally.

 

[ARBITER01]

It is interesting that the Holy Spirit did not include an instruction manual with the list of the Spiritual gifts, and yet I am reading a number of attempts at an instruction manual. I wonder why the Holy Spirit didn't provide one to save all the different opinions about their use? Maybe He is wiser than we are.

It's called communion and fellowship with The Holy Spirit Oscarr. We are to ask Him directly for help on anything we don't understand.

He was given to us for reasons beyond just being involved with the gifts. We are to allow Him to be our teacher.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It's called communion and fellowship with The Holy Spirit Oscarr. We are to ask Him directly for help on anything we don't understand.

He was given to us for reasons beyond just being involved with the gifts. We are to allow Him to be our teacher.

I guess that if there was a hard and fast instruction manual, we would get locked into "the right way" to manifest the gift, instead of stepping out in faith as the Holy Spirit leads us.

There are some who draw their guidance with a drafting pencil and expect others to comply; while I draw it with a road marker which gives plenty of scope with the ordinary variation that happen from person to person.

 

[ARBITER01]

I guess that if there was a hard and fast instruction manual, we would get locked into "the right way" to manifest the gift, instead of stepping out in faith as the Holy Spirit leads us.

There are some who draw their guidance with a drafting pencil and expect others to comply; while I draw it with a road marker which gives plenty of scope with the ordinary variation that happen from person to person.

There is no one that knows more about the gifts than GOD. I don't want to be on my own trying to figure things out, or worse yet, trusting someone else and their opinions.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is no one that knows more about the gifts than GOD. I don't want to be on my own trying to figure things out, or worse yet, trusting someone else and their opinions.

The gifts are manifested by faith and not by some "instruction" from a New Age type of spirit that gives some a special "seeing" insight. Because nine out of ten impressions come from the world, flesh or the devil, I would be skeptical about someone purporting to have some special line to God that normal believers don't have. No one has a special spiritual line to God to enable them to enter into some spiritual "realm" to manifest a gift in order for others to see them as a special "spiritual" person who can see through people.

Also, one doesn't have to be in a particular environment, such as a hyped up religious meeting, or have a particular emotion, or the ability to "see" into heaven to manifest a gift of the Spirit.

All I did to pray for my work supervisor for healing of the arthritis in her knee was to get her to put her hand on her knee, and my hand on her hand and said, "Jesus heals you". Three weeks later, when her knee was Xrayed again, they couldn't find the arthritis. The emotion I felt at the time was nervousness because this was my work supervisor, and the Lord had to say to me, "Are you going to pray for her or not??" I had to overcome my nervousness and to, in faith, offer prayer for her knee, which she gladly accepted.

On another occasion when I had a word of knowledge for someone in a youth camp, I was initially afraid to give it for fear of making a fool of myself. But I gave it in faith and it turned out to be totally accurate.

In a home group, I put out the "hot seat" and invited anyone who needed a word from the Lord to sit in it. I had nothing in mind until I put my hand on the person's shoulder, and then a sentence came to mind. I said that sentence in faith, and the rest of the prophetic word flowed out, and the people in the group, all strangers to me, were amazed at the accuracy of the prophetic words. I didn't have any emotion at all when I gave those words, but I experienced joy and amazement afterward when I realised that every prophecy I gave was totally accurate for each person.

I did the same on the CF Prophetic forum some years ago when it was active, and often someone would ask for a word, and I had just a few minutes before I had to catch the bus to work, so I hurredly asked the Lord, typed out what came to me and went off to work. When I got home later, the person gave me feedback expressing how amazed they were at how the prophetic word was so accurate. This happened time after time, and one guy asked me if I hate prophetic cornflakes for breakfast and drove a prophetic car to work! No, I rode a prophetic bus!!!

So, when one uses clinical, cold blooded faith, the Holy Spirit comes to the party and does what He needs to do.

 

[ARBITER01]

The gifts are manifested by faith and not by some "instruction" from a New Age type of spirit that gives some a special "seeing" insight. Because nine out of ten impressions come from the world, flesh or the devil, I would be skeptical about someone purporting to have some special line to God that normal believers don't have. No one has a special spiritual line to God to enable them to enter into some spiritual "realm" to manifest a gift in order for others to see them as a special "spiritual" person who can see through people.

No one has any other connection to GOD than what we've been given inside,... The Holy Spirit.

Scripture is quite clear on this Oscarr,...

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

While your Scripture quote is quite true, the issue is how this is worked out in practice. Not everyone who says that he is speaking or acting according to the Holy Spirit is actually what is really happening. No one is a "specialist" in manifesting anything through the Holy Spirit. We are all equal, in the same boat, as far as the working of the Holy Spirit is concerned. God is no respecter of persons when it comes to the Holy Spirit distributing the gift of the Spirit as He wills.

If the Holy Spirit prompts me to give prophetic words on a regular basis, the fact is that I am only as good as my last accurate prophetic word. There is no guarantee that I will be prompted to give future prophetic words unless I am prompted by the Holy Spirit, and He doesn't have to continue using me in that area if He decides not to.

 

[ARBITER01]

While your Scripture quote is quite true, the issue is how this is worked out in practice.

It seems it was commonplace with the apostles back in the day,....

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all.

- Original: κοινωνία
- Transliteration: Koinonia
- Phonetic: koy-nohn-ee'-ah
- Definition:
1. fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a. the share which one has in anything, participation
b. intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
1. the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
c. a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship
- Origin: from G2844
- TDNT entry: 16:17,4
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

- Strong's: From G2844; partnership that is (literally) participation or (social) intercourse or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation) communion (contri-) distribution fellowship.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It seems it was commonplace with the apostles back in the day,....

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all.

- Original: κοινωνία
- Transliteration: Koinonia
- Phonetic: koy-nohn-ee'-ah
- Definition:
1. fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a. the share which one has in anything, participation
b. intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
1. the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
c. a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship
- Origin: from G2844
- TDNT entry: 16:17,4
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

- Strong's: From G2844; partnership that is (literally) participation or (social) intercourse or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation) communion (contri-) distribution fellowship.

I got plenty of that in my non-Charismatic Baptist and Presbyterian churches that I was part of around 31 years after I left the Pentecostal movement.

Doesn't explain how a believer can manifest a spiritual gift and know that he is manifesting it correctly, and how the listeners can differentiate between a prophetic word and just someone getting up and saying the encouraging things he has on his mind. A preacher can preach on a particular topic, and it would just be another sermon, but another preacher could preach exactly the same sermon and it is prophetic. So, what makes one sermon just a sermon, and an identical sermon prophetic? How can we tell?

 

[ARBITER01]

I got plenty of that in my non-Charismatic Baptist and Presbyterian churches that I was part of around 31 years after I left the Pentecostal movement.

Doesn't explain how a believer can manifest a spiritual gift and know that he is manifesting it correctly, and how the listeners can differentiate between a prophetic word and just someone getting up and saying the encouraging things he has on his mind. A preacher can preach on a particular topic, and it would just be another sermon, but another preacher could preach exactly the same sermon and it is prophetic. So, what makes one sermon just a sermon, and an identical sermon prophetic? How can we tell?

How is one led by The Holy Spirit?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

How is one led by The Holy Spirit?

That's a good question.

 

[ARBITER01]

That's a good question.

As Christians, the majority of what we do involves our measure of faith and how we increase that. Just like your post about speaking in tongues where a person learns to step out and activate their gift by faith, we learn to sense The Holy Spirit's activities and actions within us and around us, and trust in Him by faith. In fact, it takes years to learn and mature into it.

I would say that this is an area of Christianity where a lot of people never really learn how to trust, especially if they are not Spirit-filled. It's why we have seen people on here who would only trust their bibles, and some to extremes where they would only look for GOD to speak to them from it. They want to trust something they can touch or see.

Any time we are dealing with spiritual matters, it involves that measure of faith we were given after being born again. To touch eternity where GOD is requires an operation in faith.

We learn how He bears witness to our spirit inside, we learn how He provides a check within our spirit when something is wrong. We learn how to receive revelation knowledge from Him inside, we learn the multifaceted meanings of scripture from Him as He reveals them to us while we read, we learn the different aspects of prayer from Him, and we learn all the different operations of the gifts from Him, and maybe,....we will receive an anointing to have Him resting upon us in power.

It's a lifelong learning experience that only a very few people over the centuries have ever been able to truly master. If any one of us really desires to have GOD manifest His power through us for His glory, then we have to become good at sensing The Holy Spirit's activities and being led by Him.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

As Christians, the majority of what we do involves our measure of faith and how we increase that. Just like your post about speaking in tongues where a person learns to step out and activate their gift by faith, we learn to sense The Holy Spirit's activities and actions within us and around us, and trust in Him by faith. In fact, it takes years to learn and mature into it.

I would say that this is an area of Christianity where a lot of people never really learn how to trust, especially if they are not Spirit-filled. It's why we have seen people on here who would only trust their bibles, and some to extremes where they would only look for GOD to speak to them from it. They want to trust something they can touch or see.

Any time we are dealing with spiritual matters, it involves that measure of faith we were given after being born again. To touch eternity where GOD is requires an operation in faith.

We learn how He bears witness to our spirit inside, we learn how He provides a check within our spirit when something is wrong. We learn how to receive revelation knowledge from Him inside, we learn the multifaceted meanings of scripture from Him as He reveals them to us while we read, we learn the different aspects of prayer from Him, and we learn all the different operations of the gifts from Him, and maybe,....we will receive an anointing to have Him resting upon us in power.

It's a lifelong learning experience that only a very few people over the centuries have ever been able to truly master. If any one of us really desires to have GOD manifest His power through us for His glory, then we have to become good at sensing The Holy Spirit's activities and being led by Him.

As a 21 year old I was trained that if I wanted to move in the prophetic or the other gifts I needed to be a man of the Word and of prayer. As we grow in grace and in fellowship with the Lord, we develop a sensitivity to the prompting of the Spirit.

 

[ARBITER01]

As a 21 year old I was trained that if I wanted to move in the prophetic or the other gifts I needed to be a man of the Word and of prayer. As we grow in grace and in fellowship with the Lord, we develop a sensitivity to the prompting of the Spirit.

I would agree, but add that it's a fellowship with The Holy Spirit also.

I sometimes ask Him about things I don't understand completely since He's our teacher. I acknowledge Him when He corrects me about something I'm wrong about.

I try to give Him the preeminence in my life. I trust Him over people. I trust Him to sort out what is truth and what isn't when I read things outside the bible. I thank Him for things at times.

I don't pray to Him but I do try to communicate and involve Him in my learning since He is part of my very being inside.

 

[Francis Drake]

As Christians, the majority of what we do involves our measure of faith and how we increase that. Just like your post about speaking in tongues where a person learns to step out and activate their gift by faith, we learn to sense The Holy Spirit's activities and actions within us and around us, and trust in Him by faith. In fact, it takes years to learn and mature into it.

I would say that this is an area of Christianity where a lot of people never really learn how to trust, especially if they are not Spirit-filled. It's why we have seen people on here who would only trust their bibles, and some to extremes where they would only look for GOD to speak to them from it. They want to trust something they can touch or see.

Any time we are dealing with spiritual matters, it involves that measure of faith we were given after being born again. To touch eternity where GOD is requires an operation in faith.

We learn how He bears witness to our spirit inside, we learn how He provides a check within our spirit when something is wrong. We learn how to receive revelation knowledge from Him inside, we learn the multifaceted meanings of scripture from Him as He reveals them to us while we read, we learn the different aspects of prayer from Him, and we learn all the different operations of the gifts from Him, and maybe,....we will receive an anointing to have Him resting upon us in power.

It's a lifelong learning experience that only a very few people over the centuries have ever been able to truly master. If any one of us really desires to have GOD manifest His power through us for His glory, then we have to become good at sensing The Holy Spirit's activities and being led by Him.

Arbiter, this is truly wonderful, and I agree completely.
Yet I am puzzled because many of your other posts seem to completely contradict this post?

 

[Francis Drake]

I would agree, but add that it's a fellowship with The Holy Spirit also.

I sometimes ask Him about things I don't understand completely since He's our teacher. I acknowledge Him when He corrects me about something I'm wrong about.

I try to give Him the preeminence in my life. I trust Him over people. I trust Him to sort out what is truth and what isn't when I read things outside the bible. I thank Him for things at times.

I could say the same, as I'm sure would @Oscarr

I don't pray to Him but I do try to communicate and involve Him in my learning since He is part of my very being inside.

Bit puzzled by this.

 

[ARBITER01]

Arbiter, this is truly wonderful, and I agree completely.
Yet I am puzzled because many of your other posts seem to completely contradict this post?

Well I think a lot of times I'm just giving my specific understanding of something without providing much in the way of context around that. I'm not like Oscarr that can type out chapters of books fully explaining his thoughts or positions on something in a single post.