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Featured How to identify the AC in the book of Revelation using the book of Daniel!

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by ewq1938, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. david shelby

    david shelby Member

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    If you take the first view I outlined, then clearly its all about him, as that paragraph shows:

    If you take the position that the messiah in Daniel 9 is Jesus, the 7 years would be the 3 years of his ministry and first 3 or 4 years of the church, and the "he" who is the subject of the "confirming" would be the messiah, not "the prince to come." It also would then be the messiah who would cut off the burnt offering and such in the middle (after the first 3 years) because they would be cut off validity-wise by Jesus' once-for-all sacrifice. Also, the phrase "and in their place shall be an abomination that desolates, until the decreed end is poured out upon the desolator" would refer to the animal sacrifices that continued between Jesus' death and the final destruction of the temple.​

    That is one of what I think are two defensible views. But what I deny is that it has anything to do with an antichrist. That to me is just silly.
     
  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Movies are better than the book. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Each king has a kingdom, so each one gives their kingdom to the beast which doesn't mean they lose the kingdom. It means the AC has access to their kingdom's resources etc.

    Rev_17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    Here again, the ten kings will each receive a kingdom.


    Not the first beast. That is ten kingdoms and kings and 7 mountains...Rev 17 does not add another person as you do. Only the second beast is a person according to the book of Rev.




    The little horn isn't one of the heads...no one is a head. The heads are mountains not persons. And the AC is neither wounded nor dies not until being defeated by Christ.


    The text doesn't address the size of the heads so we shouldn't either. You are incorrectly identifying the heads as people when the text does not. The metaphors have to be correct before understanding any of these things.
     
  3. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Movies are better than the book. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    There is no mortally wounded individual in the book. The wounded head represents an area of land where war happened and it was healed.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No, false Christs are persons who claim to be Jesus returned. Examples are Vissarion in Russia, John Miller of Australia, and Jose Luis Miranda. There are plenty of You Tube videos on each.

    Them that John was talking to in 1John2:18 were already aware that antichrist will come. Where did they get that idea? Because it was something Jesus spoke about in John 5:43 and taught by the disciples.

    John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

    No, John was likening them to Antichrist because they were displaying the same characteristics.


    Again, John is likening such person as having the same characteristic to the coming Antichrist (singular, not Antichrists plural).

    18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
     
  5. david shelby

    david shelby Member

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    There's not much real difference in claiming to be the messiah or claiming to be Jesus returned, because in either case the claim is to be the messiah.

    Well that was clearly Bar Kokhba being referred to there.
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It's one kingdom, not ten kingdoms. The one kingdom of the ten kings is the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7.

    23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    There are no seven heads in Daniel 7, only one head.

    The concept of little horn person has to be carried forward to the Revelation description in some way...

    since there is NO little horn in the Revelation description, and all of the other six heads have been accounted for - the little horn person of Daniel 7 has to be the yet to come 7th head on the Revelation beast.

    The 7th head - is the little horn come to power in Revelation 12 with 7 years left. Then In Revelation 13, with 42 months to go, the 7th head, the little horn person will have been wounded and come back to life as the beast person.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    It is giving you the progression of the person. He comes to power as the little horn, before the 7 years begin, in Revelation 12.

    Then after Gog/Magog, he comes riding into the middle east as the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6,
    as the prince who shall come, who is given a crown in Revelation 6, that is anointed the King of Israel, the Antichrist by the false prophet. He confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant and begins the seven years.

    Then before the 42 months begin in Revelation 13, he will have been killed for claiming to be God in 2Thessalonians2:3-4, Ezekiel 28:1-10. And then brought back to life, Isaiah14:19-20, to become the beast person.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The difference is false Christs will claim to be Jesus returned. Just like the examples I gave you.

    Differently, the Antichrist will not claim to be Jesus, but will claim to be the messiah instead of Jesus, and speak against Jesus. Which is why John was likening them who had departed Christianity and were speaking against Jesus as antichrists.
     
  9. david shelby

    david shelby Member

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    So does that mean Sneerson who is being hailed by Chabad Lubavichters as messiah is not a false christ because he didn't claim to be Jesus specifically?

    But Sneerson already died though, so why are you still looking for an antichrist? He came and you missed him.
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Simon Bar Kokhba was never anointed the King of Israel - in order to be the Antichrist.

    What the Jews did in the first century was to reject Jesus to be their King of Israel.

    The Antichrist will be someone who will be embraced by the Jews and actually be anointed the King of Israel.
    Hence the role of the false prophet - to anoint him.
     
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  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No he is not a false Christ. The Jews (Judaism) consider him a failed messiah. That is a person who was a candidate to be the messiah, but failed at the job description.

    Some Lubavitchers still hold to R. Scheerson being the messiah, thinking he will return to complete the job description. In doing so, they take a lot of heat from their fellow Jews, saying that is Christianity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  12. david shelby

    david shelby Member

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    You just made that rule up, or Hal Lindsey did. Because antichrist is only mentioned in 1st and 2nd John, and it certainly don't say that.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No I am not making up a rule. I doubt that Hal Lindsey notes that to be the Antichrist, the person has to be anointed the King of Israel in order to be the Antichrist, because I heard recently (about three months ago) Hal Lindsey to refer to the person (when he is in the role of the beast) as being the "final" Antichrist. I hardly ever watch or follow Hal Lindsey. Maybe I will watch about 3 or 4 minutes of a program once or twice at the most, in a year.
     
  14. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    NIV ?
     
  15. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, for starters, first of all. Simon Bar Kochba. Really WAS anointed Messiah by Rabbi Akiva.

    also, as observed by Don K Preston in his book LAST DAYS IDENTIFIED. Please read John 6:15.

    The Jews did not reject Jesus, he rejected their offer of kingship. Just as he rejected the same offer from the adversary in the desert. Matthew 4. And even from Saint Peter. Matthew 16.

    The kingship offered to him was a rejection of God, the father. Per 1 Samuel 8:7-8

    Yet, the fact remains that the Jews tried to crown him as King. And acknowledged him as the son of David during his triumphal entry to Jerusalem.
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Movies are better than the book. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    The bible says otherwise:

    Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
    Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
     
  17. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ of Nazareth is considered an anti-Christ. That is clear in
    1 John 2:18
    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

    It also appears the "one" John was referring to was coming in their day. As far as a future "one" I see no scriptural reference. Many have been attributed the "one" as someone in their day. They were proven incorrect over and over. Even in our age we have a linage of AC's. So if you want to point to the AC you will find it a moving target as many after you will try to identify the one as well.
    Blessings
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi Erik, in John 6:15, Jesus avoided them at that time who were gong to make him "a" king. A king of that region in Israel, up around the sea of Galilee.

    It was not as the King of Israel, and Jesus went the other way because it did nor fit the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9, which he had come to fulfill. Which had to be when he rides into Jerusalem on the donkey - to be rejected as King of Israel.

    9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

    Did the Jews reject Jesus as King? I think I would look at John 19:14-15.

    14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

    15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

    __________________________________________________________________

    Regarding Simon Bar Kochba, Rabbi Akira's declaration of him being the messiah didn't count as him been king of "united" Israel.

    He was a leader over a independent Jewish state for three years, though, supported by the rabbi's. As the Romans began to close in, Bar Kochba (a name the R. Akiva gave him, but was later known as "bar Kozba" meaning son of a lie) became paranoid about insider spies and had R. Elazar executed. That action caused the rabbi's to no longer support him.

    Bar Kochba « Jewish History

    "Yet, in a fit of almost insane paranoia Bar Kochba accused the great sage, Rabbi Elazar, of being the spy and executed him. He then lost the support of the rabbis completely. It eroded all chance of reconciliation. Then they began calling him, “Bar Koziba,” meaning the son of a lie; a false messiah. Their hopes were dashed."


    The Jews (Judaism) at MessiahTruth, Yuku site, don't consider Simon Bar Kochba as a king of Israel (the united country) like Saul, David, Solomon. In Ezekiel 37, it is not until the two sticks of Ephraim and Judah are joined that the messiah, code named David My servant, will be their king forever.

    Which the two sticks were joined back together as a united Israel in 1948. The Antichrist, the King of Israel (united Israel) could not come to power until then.

    One of the reasons bar Kochba was not considered the messiah (or shall we say failed messiah) is because he did not take part in rebuilding the temple.

    Because the animal sacrifices will start up again in the end times prophecies, the Antichrist person will take part in some way of the rebuilding of the temple. The Jews are tying their expectation of the messiah with the rebuilding of the temple.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Maria, it is going to be easy to identify the person, before he becomes the Antichrist. He will be a Jew. He will be the leader of the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 in the end times - which appears to be the EU. And ten leaders of that kingdom will come before him.

    Which it appears that it will be ten leaders of the EU who elect the person as the leader of the EU. And after being elected by a margin to 7 to 3. The person removes the 3 that don't support him from office. That's my take on it.

    23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  20. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My eschatology is not the same as yours.
    Blessings
     
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