How to deal with "Them."

[Nadiine]

You'll notice that "Them" is in quotes in the thread title. It's because it tends to be a slippery set of categories.

I think breaking out of the party-line mentality is a first step towards being able to sincerely and honestly examine issues.

It is my hope that improved communication will make this a place where people feel free to share their struggles, without fear of being rejected for it.

Mac, anybody can sit one on one with people and talk about unicorns, fluffy white clouds or peanut butter & jelly sandwiches. I can sit with any liberal and get along on secular chit chat.
The huge divides occur when you try to mix theologies - that's where the split comes. That's where the fights start as we've seen repeatedly.
Just wanting to unite with liberals on a superficial level is one thing, but you cannot continue that unless you keep it ALL superficial and OFF of religion & politics.

So you need to define exactly what we're uniting in and with.
I have liberal friends in real life - most all of them are & most of them believe in God (to some extent).
But once religion is brought up, the dividing walls pop right up on both sides. It's inevitable.
So, we have a rule "NO RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL CONVERSATIONS". So, that allows us to be friends and not split.

This happens to be a religious website based on "christianity" it is PART of our reason for being here.
So I don't know how you plan on making this "unity" of 2 opposing theologies.

 

[Nadiine]

I'd also note that most liberals are pro abortion, pro homosexuality, living together outside wedlock and other moral issues that conservatives are vehemently opposed to...
Morality is another subject we'll all have to step away from for "unity"

 

[Nadiine]

I'm just curious, here. Everyone who is so adamant about ridding "us" of "them", do we really even know who "them" is.

You all know me now, and you accept me as a sister, but I fear that if you knew where I came from or the mistakes I have made over time, maybe you would see me as an "them". It makes me afraid to admit to being anything less than perfect. It isn't a good way to feel. When I first joined CC, not long ago, it felt like home. Now I have things I need to talk to with my "family" but I am afraid. Why?

None of us are perfect, and maybe I really don't belong here after all. Funny thing is, I don't question whether my Lord loves and accepts me. I know I am forgiven by Him. It's just some others whom I worry about. Doesn't that seem wrong to anyone?

No one is going to want to ever be open and honest about their issues in faith if they have to live in fear of being judged harshly and never being accepted or forgiven, even if they have repented or are trying to repent. Isn't anyone else afraid that we may be driving off more than we may be saving? I worry about that a lot.

Don't worry about all that. Just stay close to the Lord who you know and love.
Some people are taking 'dings' for speaking out (probly either way) -- but things can't get fixed until communication happens.

Kinda like marriage - shoving issues under the carpet only keeps the peace for so long until there's an erruption. (well, I guess I should just speak for myself on that, it doesn't work for me.)

My question is, was it actually "peace" before the storm? who knows.

People are sister!! Trust God that He'll work all this out!

 

[Macrina]

Mac, anybody can sit one on one with people and talk about unicorns, fluffy white clouds or peanut butter & jelly sandwiches. I can sit with any liberal and get along on secular chit chat.
The huge divides occur when you try to mix theologies - that's where the split comes. That's where the fights start as we've seen repeatedly.
Just wanting to unite with liberals on a superficial level is one thing, but you cannot continue that unless you keep it ALL superficial and OFF of religion & politics.

So you need to define exactly what we're uniting in and with.
I have liberal friends in real life - most all of them are & most of them believe in God (to some extent).
But once religion is brought up, the dividing walls pop right up on both sides. It's inevitable.
So, we have a rule "NO RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL CONVERSATIONS". So, that allows us to be friends and not split.

This happens to be a religious website based on "christianity" it is PART of our reason for being here.
So I don't know how you plan on making this "unity" of 2 opposing theologies.

Please quote where I used the word "unity."

Also please quote where I said that I planned to unite two opposing theologies.

If you can't do the above, I request that you re-read my OP. Thanks.

 

[Macrina]

I'd also note that most liberals are pro abortion, pro homosexuality, living together outside wedlock and other moral issues that conservatives are vehemently opposed to...
Morality is another subject we'll all have to step away from for "unity"

I'm afraid you are not understanding the point of my OP. It is not about "unity." It is about how to communicate one's point so as to have the greatest positive impact.

 

[Nadiine]

I'm afraid you are not understanding the point of my OP. It is not about "unity." It is about how to communicate one's point so as to have the greatest positive impact.

Ok, let's get to the source - WHY do we have to communicate??
How did JESUS communicate with the Pharisees? How did JESUS communicate with the people selling on the temple grounds?

You seem to think we have to be in close proximity to everybody - the Bible calls us to divide with some. Somehow I"m being told that I have to have friendships & bonding with these people that fight against [what conservatives find are] simple doctrines in the bible.
They aren't neutral, they FIGHT against it.

Is this becuz you want to gain friendships to proselytize to them? I'm kinda clueless about what this push is all about.

 

[Lisa0315]

Ok, let's get to the source - WHY do we have to communicate??
How did JESUS communicate with the Pharisees? How did JESUS communicate with the people selling on the temple grounds?

You seem to think we have to be in close proximity to everybody - the Bible calls us to divide with some. Somehow I"m being told that I have to have friendships & bonding with these people that fight against [what conservatives find are] simple doctrines in the bible.
They aren't neutral, they FIGHT against it.

Is this becuz you want to gain friendships to proselytize to them? I'm kinda clueless about what this push is all about.

She is ministering to her home forum in a pastoral care position and point of view. Geesh!

Lisa

 

[3girls2dogs]

How about how Jesus communicated with the sinner woman in Luke 7:36-50?

 

[Nadiine]

She is ministering to her home forum in a pastoral care position and point of view. Geesh!

Lisa

thanks for your patience

 

[Macrina]

Ok, let's get to the source - WHY do we have to communicate??
How did JESUS communicate with the Pharisees? How did JESUS communicate with the people selling on the temple grounds?

You seem to think we have to be in close proximity to everybody - the Bible calls us to divide with some. Somehow I"m being told that I have to have friendships & bonding with these people that fight against [what conservatives find are] simple doctrines in the bible.
They aren't neutral, they FIGHT against it.

Is this becuz you want to gain friendships to proselytize to them? I'm kinda clueless about what this push is all about.

I'm going to try again to clarify. You are misunderstanding the purpose of my post and this thread.

I am not speaking of unity or being "in close proximity to everybody" or any of those things you are talking about. While those are topics worthy of discussion, that is not the discussion in this thread.

Let me think up a hypothetical example...

Okay, let's say that I'm in a group of pastors from my denomination and we are trying to develop a policy proposal regarding how we select our commissioners to General Assembly (our national legislative body). The majority of the group is in favor of a certain set of criteria with which I disagree. I think their method will lead to poor choices. I have a method of my own to suggest. There are multiple ways I can try to do this, but for the sake of simplification, I'll make it two:

A) I could accuse them of deliberately trying to get bad commissioners elected, tell them they are attacking the fundamentals of the faith, and insist that all real Christians will agree with me.

B) I can approach it with the attitude of "well, we're all trying to find a method that is fair and honors God. I see ___ flaws in your proposal, and I suggest ___ instead. That would better do what we're trying to accomplish."

Just an example, but perhaps that helps illuminate what I'm talking about. It's about working within the church (or any group) to accomplish a purpose; some approaches will be more effective than others.

While the advice in the OP applies to anyone, I share it here in my home forum because I have a vested interest in seeing certain conservative positions communicated effectively.

 

[3girls2dogs]

I know that Jesus was very harsh with the Pharisees and with the money-changers, but there were also situations where he dealt with sinners that he was gentle and kind. I think that, while the Bible is an important place to reference for this behavior, we must also listen to the word that God has put on our heart.

 

[free2be]

we must also listen to the word that God has put on our heart.

Most definately!!!

 

[Nadiine]

I know that Jesus was very harsh with the Pharisees and with the money-changers, but there were also situations where he dealt with sinners that he was gentle and kind. I think that, while the Bible is an important place to reference for this behavior, we must also listen to the word that God has put on our heart.

These are Christians who put themselves inside the church, and who promote homosexuality as "good", and many other things... this is a matter of doctrinal issues not just sinners as Jesus sat with them.

Jesus wasn't sitting with those who attacked His message or moral commands. He in fact warned about them and how to spot their fruit.

John taught in 2 JOhn 10-11 not to even welcome some of those... I'm speaking of working against truth, not general sinners which I know God sat with.
I can't say much becuz of the rules here so i'm limited in my reply on this.
Then I'd have to ask if you guys are considering them christians?? Becuz Paul taught us to judge those Inside the church... 1 Cor. 5

Anyone who knows me knows I'm not promoting self righteousness or 'hating' others - but not hating people doesn't mean we have to go unite either.

And I'm more surprised at this immediate forcing of this issue on all of us here in CC. I don't need others speaking FOR ME and forcing me to unite - if I came in here forcing you guys to go unite with the Mormons & go hang out with them, would you appreciate that?
I doubt it.

I don't like being forced like this just becuz a few people on staff & some members decide this for all of us.
This isn't going on in any other forums I'm aware of. Not even the ND forum which is mostly conservative.

 

[Macrina]

These are Christians who put themselves inside the church, and who promote homosexuality as "good", and many other things... this is a matter of doctrinal issues not just sinners as Jesus sat with them.

Jesus wasn't sitting with those who attacked His message or moral commands. He in fact warned about them and how to spot their fruit.

John taught in 2 JOhn 10-11 not to even welcome some of those... I'm speaking of working against truth, not general sinners which I know God sat with.
I can't say much becuz of the rules here so i'm limited in my reply on this.

Anyone who knows me knows I'm not promoting self righteousness or 'hating' others - but not hating people doesn't mean we have to go unite either.

And I'm more surprised at this immediate forcing of this issue on all of us here in CC. I don't need others speaking FOR ME and forcing me to unite - if I came in here forcing you guys to go unite with the Mormons & go hang out with them, would you appreciate that?
I doubt it.

I don't like being forced like this just becuz a few people on staff & some members decide this for all of us.
This isn't going on in any other forums I'm aware of. Not even the ND forum which is mostly conservative.

Where have I spoken of uniting?
Please answer.
Thank you.

 

[3girls2dogs]

These are Christians who put themselves inside the church, and who promote homosexuality as "good", and many other things... this is a matter of doctrinal issues not just sinners as Jesus sat with them.

Jesus wasn't sitting with those who attacked His message or moral commands. He in fact warned about them and how to spot their fruit.

John taught in 2 JOhn 10-11 not to even welcome some of those... I'm speaking of working against truth, not general sinners which I know God sat with.
I can't say much becuz of the rules here so i'm limited in my reply on this.
Then I'd have to ask if you guys are considering them christians?? Becuz Paul taught us to judge those Inside the church... 1 Cor. 5

Anyone who knows me knows I'm not promoting self righteousness or 'hating' others - but not hating people doesn't mean we have to go unite either.

And I'm more surprised at this immediate forcing of this issue on all of us here in CC. I don't need others speaking FOR ME and forcing me to unite - if I came in here forcing you guys to go unite with the Mormons & go hang out with them, would you appreciate that?
I doubt it.

I don't like being forced like this just becuz a few people on staff & some members decide this for all of us.
This isn't going on in any other forums I'm aware of. Not even the ND forum which is mostly conservative.

Ok, I think I was misunderstanding you, then. I was under the impression that it was more of a sinners in general thing. I understand the false teacher thing, I really do. I'm not accepting of certain things I know to be true.

 

[Nadiine]

we must also listen to the word that God has put on our heart.

And my friend, that IS what I am doing (for myself) and the others here that are being told that this is what we Must do here now.

 

[Macrina]

This thread is not about unity. It would be a subject worth discussing in its own thread, but this is not that thread.

This thread is about effective communication.

 

[Nadiine]

Ok, I think I was misunderstanding you, then. I was under the impression that it was more of a sinners in general thing. I understand the false teacher thing, I really do. I'm not accepting of certain things I know to be true.

Oh thank GOD. LOL yes.
I'm limited in what I can say here, as we all know.

 

[Nadiine]

This thread is not about unity. It would be a subject worth discussing in its own thread, but this is not that thread.

This thread is about effective communication.

What YOU call "communication", I call a unity of sorts becuz that is what it appears to be when you go and extend your hand of friendship.

Why isn't anyone pushing us to do this with the Mormons and Jehovah witnesses? and Unitarians? & non trinitarians?
Look, if YOU GUYS want to have this communication, then by all means go do it together. NObody's stopping you or complaining or attacking you are they?

 

[Macrina]

What YOU call "communication", I call a unity of sorts becuz that is what it appears to be when you go and extend your hand of friendship.

Why isn't anyone pushing us to do this with the Mormons and Jehovah witnesses? and Unitarians? & non trinitarians?
Look, if YOU GUYS want to have this communication, then by all means go do it together. NObody's stopping you or complaining or attacking you are they?

Nadiine, you are completely misunderstanding the point of this thread. Please stop derailing the topic.