How to choose between creation and evolution.

[Haipule]

Oh what a load.

Do rib bones contain multipotent stem cells?
Can rib bones grow back?

 

[Larniavc]

No it doesn't:

“I, for one, have never subscribed to this view of the origin of life, and I am by no means alone. The RNA world hypothesis is driven almost entirely by the flow of data from very high technology combinatorial libraries, whose relationship to the prebiotic world is anything but worthy of “unanimous support”. There are several serious problems associated with it, and I view it as little more than a popular fantasy” (reviewer's report in Primordial soup or vinaigrette: did the RNA world evolve at acidic pH? Biol Direct. 2012).
​

Abiogenesis is little more the a popular fantasy.

And yet ‘abiogenesis’ is the name for the study of biological origins.

Which was my point.

But, thanks for posting the opinion of some guy, though: really made me think.

 

[mark kennedy]

And yet ‘abiogenesis’ is the name for the study of biological origins.

Which was my point.

But, thanks for posting the opinion of some guy, though: really made me think.

Sure no problem, it's a chicken and egg problem, was it proteins or RNA.

 

[Doug Melven]

You must then conclude that Collin's and the many thousands of educated Phd level scientists that agree with his conclusion on how strong the evidence is, are either wrong on the science, or they have some motivation to mislead people.

If your conclusion is Collins and everyone else is simply wrong, why would anyone be convinced with you disagreeing with them?

They would be wrong on the science because they refuse to believe God created everything.

 

[mark kennedy]

They would be wrong on the science because they refuse to believe God created everything.

Francis Collins would agree that God created everything, creating life over the space of six days 6000 years ago, not so much.

 

[VirOptimus]

They would be wrong on the science because they refuse to believe God created everything.

Many scientists are religious.

Religious beliefs are however not scientific.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sure no problem, it's a chicken and egg problem, was it proteins or RNA.

-_- both form naturally, so there is no reason that they couldn't have formed at the same time. However, RNA can act both as a gene AND as an enzyme, so it can do the work of both by itself, so there isn't a "chicken and egg" problem here at all.

 

[mark kennedy]

-_- both form naturally, so there is no reason that they couldn't have formed at the same time. However, RNA can act both as a gene AND as an enzyme, so it can do the work of both by itself, so there isn't a "chicken and egg" problem here at all.

Funny that's not what I'm getting from the research. RNA transposes into proteins, which become the molecular mechanisms that produce proteins. Proteins never produce RNA but RNA produce proteins. It seems like a no brainer but what produces the RNA in the first place, in a primordial sea, that is cooking like a cauldron.

 

[Larniavc]

Sure no problem, it's a chicken and egg problem, was it proteins or RNA.

Which is nothing to do with my point about ToE and Abiogenesis being two different things.

But thanks for trying to change the subject.

 

[mark kennedy]

Which is nothing to do with my point about ToE and Abiogenesis being two different things.

But thanks for trying to change the subject.

That wasn't changing the subject it was following the conversation, and the protein/RNA first question is big in the RNA world hypothesis. Don't you guy ever research this stuff?

 

[Larniavc]

That wasn't changing the subject it was following the conversation, and the protein/RNA first question is big in the RNA world hypothesis. Don't you guy ever research this stuff?

The only thing I posted about was ToE and Abiogenesis.

If that does not interest you, you need not have replied to me.

 

[mark kennedy]

The only thing I posted about was ToE and Abiogenesis.

If that does not interest you, you need not have replied to me.

I didn't think I needed to, what interests me is the actual scientific literature but try to get a conversation going on that is like pulling teeth.

 

[Doug Melven]

Abiogenesis, life from nonliving organic matter. Sounds kind of like an oxymoron.
I think if this would have been a viable theory scientists would have produced life by now from nonliving organic matter. You would think with today's supercomputers that they could have figured out how to do this if it were possible.
Maybe they should ask Alexa.
Scientist: Alexa how do I create life from nonliving organic matter?
Alexa: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Maybe they did ask Alexa.

Alexa is laughing at users and creeping them out

 

[mark kennedy]

Abiogenesis, life from nonliving organic matter. Sounds kind of like an oxymoron.
I think if this would have been a viable theory scientists would have produced life by now from nonliving organic matter. You would think with today's supercomputers that they could have figured out how to do this if it were possible.
Maybe they should ask Alexa.
Scientist: Alexa how do I create life from nonliving organic matter?
Alexa: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Maybe they did ask Alexa.

Alexa is laughing at users and creeping them out

Oh I heard about that, it will just laugh in the middle of the night. Trippy, probably the work of a bored programmer.

 

[dreadnought]

If you study evolution, with an open mind, you will likely believe in evolution.

If you study human, animal, and plant anatomy, with an open mind, you will likely believe in creation.

Certainly the Bible is telling the truth. There could be some symbolism. Is it really that big of a deal?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Funny that's not what I'm getting from the research. RNA transposes into proteins, which become the molecular mechanisms that produce proteins. Proteins never produce RNA but RNA produce proteins. It seems like a no brainer but what produces the RNA in the first place, in a primordial sea, that is cooking like a cauldron.

-_- RNA and proteins form naturally. They can catalyze the reactions pertaining to their formation, making them form faster and in larger quantities. Most of the basic cell reactions are ones that can occur naturally, but not as fast as they do within cells filled to the brim with RNA and protein enzymes that catalyze the reactions.

 

[Larniavc]

I didn't think I needed to, what interests me is the actual scientific literature but try to get a conversation going on that is like pulling teeth.

Pull someone else’s teeth.

 

[pitabread]

I didn't think I needed to, what interests me is the actual scientific literature but try to get a conversation going on that is like pulling teeth.

Oh, the irony.

 

[Speedwell]

Certainly the Bible is telling the truth. There could be some symbolism. Is it really that big of a deal?

It is, if you have constructed your theology on a literal and inerrant Genesis.

 

[LordKroak10]

How? Did the animal just decide to modify its DNA?

As for abiogenesis. Life arising from nonliving matter.
If this could work, scientists would have been able to produce life.

It is clear you have not studied evolution, so it sounds mean to say, but you are honestly not bringing much to the discussion. When I use the phrase "until they made more permanent changes," what that actually entails is a series of behavioral, phenotypic, and eventually genetic adaptations that make successive generations of a species more suited to a new environment. Mutations and adaptations occur over the course of millions of years, each one slightly tweaking small aspects of a species to improve fitness (fitness being their ability to survive and reproduce). A species never stops adapting. To stop adapting is to go extinct.

As for abiogenesis, it's a little more complicated than, for example, throwing a bunch of chemicals together to try to make a dog. Current theory is that life started as abiotic micells and vesicles, which are naturally forming membranous structures that arise from fatty acids in water. Fatty acids have been shown to have possibly formed along geothermal vents in the earliest oceans, where life is thought to have originated. From these micells and vesicles, other organic compounds could come together within the safety of their membranes and form self-replicating structures, eventually giving rise to more complicated life. A study to completely replicate this process has not been done yet, probably because we lack the time, money, and technology, but we will get there some day.