How to be friends with a Christian

[peadar1987]

My friend is a fundamentalist Christian. We've been close friends for years, and often discuss matters of faith.

In a conversation a few months back, she told me that the only way to get to heaven was through belief in Jesus, and nobody could be saved by good works. I then asked her what she thought would happen to me.

She tried to avoid the question by telling me she didn't think god would give up on me, but eventually was forced to admit that if I was run over by a car the next day, she believed that I was going to hell, and that I would deserve it for my wicked atheist ways (In a sentence, my beliefs are that I don't personally believe in god, but I can't rule out his existence as a possibility).

I was slightly disturbed by this. How could someone I considered one of my closest friends think I was going to be subjected to eternal torture? And be okay with the idea. If the roles were reversed, I don't think I would be able to accept that god would let that happen to my closest friends, who I know are essentially good people. I certainly would be very angry about it if I did believe it, but she seemed not to be troubled by the idea at all.

I'm not sure how to feel about the whole thing. The impression I got from her was that her friends were all well and good, but we were just really a place-filler to her, to get her through until she was taken up to heaven, and after that she wasn't bothered what happened to us.

Is anyone else in the same situation, from either side? Did you resolve it? And how?

 

[Aibrean]

I'm sure she's not okay with it. You asked her a direct question and she was being honest. Would you rather she lied to you? We are all sinners, no one is perfect. We've all done something wrong in our lives. I don't need to preach the biblical basis for salvation and atonement for sins because you are more than likely already aware (and if not, just ask your friend). All she is doing is telling you, she's not forcing her beliefs on you.

If she wasn't bothered, she wouldn't be having religious discussions with you.

 

[peadar1987]

Thanks for the reply

I'm not bothered about her forcing her beliefs on me, and I did appreciate her honesty, but it just feel slightly odd to be friends with someone who thinks I deserve eternal torment!

I was just wondering if any of the Christians out there had looked at this from the other side, in case one of us is missing something, and also if any non-believers had found themselves in the same situation as me.

 

[heron]

She is just speaking of what she has been taught, not what she wishes for you. She has probably held back in saying everything she wants to say, because she knows it would just come out coercive. She can't make you believe something. Belief comes with understanding.

Even though most Christians are taught about Hell, the Bible speaks of a second death of the spirit after the death of the body. Hell was reserved for the devil and his buds. Jesus spoke of two divisions of Sheol, under the earth. One was similar to the way we describe Hell, but seemed closer to the lava.

We all die. We accept that the bodies die. If this is true about the spirit also dying, then it should not be much different than the body dying. We would cease to exist, sometimes painfully, then cease to exist again.

Jesus offered eternal life for our spirits in paradise, with Him. Custom homes where we can feel established. No pain or sorrow. It was an invitation, in contrast to sitting under the ground or ceasing to exist.

If you want to find the verses, search "Lazarus" and "second death."

Luke 16:23 In She'ol, (Lazarus) lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Avraham far off.

Jesus offered a way to escape the suffering of Hell.

Most people believe what they want to believe, because the reality of the afterlife is not facing them at the moment. Faith can be treated like shopping for cars, when a person is not in need of help. Then faith in God becomes a quick fix for staying out of danger. There is so much more to this faith walk, to living life in this invisible kingdom.

 

[FedererFan]

I have the same thing going on with my mom. She tells me that it makes her sad that I'm going to hell. I've never quite understood why atheists are bothered by people telling them that they're going to hell. I am not bothered because I don't believe it's true. If I thought they might be true, I would be a believer.

You might be bothered by your friend's belief, but you probably would prefer that to her constantly berating you about your non-belief. Hopefully she recognizes your ability to make decisions about your personal beliefs, but she also recognizes that from her perspective, you must ultimately answer for those beliefs.

As for your assertion that you'd be angry if you believed that she was going to hell, that sort of belief requires that God is responsible for sending people to hell. But you have to remember, that your friend likely believes that you are responsible for sending yourself to hell based on your non-belief. Therefore, there is no reason to be mad (except maybe at you for denying her the ability to spend eternity with you).

As an atheist, it does not bother me that Christians believe I am going to hell. The only reason I am "bothered" is the fact that it actually makes my mom sad. Otherwise, it's just a belief that I don't subscribe to.

 

[peadar1987]

I have the same thing going on with my mom. She tells me that it makes her sad that I'm going to hell. I've never quite understood why atheists are bothered by people telling them that they're going to hell. I am not bothered because I don't believe it's true. If I thought they might be true, I would be a believer.

You might be bothered by your friend's belief, but you probably would prefer that to her constantly berating you about your non-belief. Hopefully she recognizes your ability to make decisions about your personal beliefs, but she also recognizes that from her perspective, you must ultimately answer for those beliefs.

As for your assertion that you'd be angry if you believed that she was going to hell, that sort of belief requires that God is responsible for sending people to hell. But you have to remember, that your friend likely believes that you are responsible for sending yourself to hell based on your non-belief. Therefore, there is no reason to be mad (except maybe at you for denying her the ability to spend eternity with you).

As an atheist, it does not bother me that Christians believe I am going to hell. The only reason I am "bothered" is the fact that it actually makes my mom sad. Otherwise, it's just a belief that I don't subscribe to.

She was ready to kill me after two weeks on holiday together, I'm not sure how she'd manage eternity! Come to think of it, maybe that's why she doesn't seem to bothered by believing I'm going to hell!

I don't believe in hell, obviously, I believe there's nothing but oblivion. Like I said, my main problem was just that she seemed okay with the idea. Saying she probably believes I'm to blame makes a lot of sense.

 

[heron]

She was ready to kill me after two weeks on holiday together, I'm not sure how she'd manage eternity! Come to think of it, maybe that's why she doesn't seem to bothered by believing I'm going to hell!

Aw, two days solid with anyone is enough to destroy a friendship.

 

[milkyway]

I guess it can be disturbing when a deeply superstitious friend or relative tells you they believe you're destined for hellfire!

It's important to stay with her, comfort her through her struggle with this fantasy, and treat her as you would a 'normal' friend. People indoctrinated with these beliefs CAN be turned round to face life free of such fears, and your friend will need you to look out for her and show her that it is possible to lead a happier life.

Good luck and please post again when you have updates.[FONT=&quot]
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[Meelahd]

You have to understand that being a Christian goes beyond finite relationships. As an atheist you should know having a friend such as this would have these kind of beliefs.

I think she really does want you to accept Christ and see the truth but once you see the truth and hopefully you will; you will understand where she is coming from.

This is not a fundamentalist issue either my friend. Some may debate whether non-christians will go to hell or not but the answers for atheists is clear but it is all up to God in the end and not the beliefs of your friend or me.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

What use is a friend that does not love you? She knows what heaven means for her and she cannot accept that you might not want to be there. She is going to a beautiful place of joy and happiness and she only wishes to see you there. That sounds like love to me. She may not be very good at saying it but Im sure she feels it. No Christian wants anyone to miss out on the joy that will be heaven. I sincerely hope to meet you there!

 

[liftmeup]

I'm not sure her assertion is true. The Pope has said people of other faiths can be saved, reversing previous doctrine. It makes sense to me, since I believe God is good, just and loves everyone. I sure hope it's true anyway - so many great non-Christians in the world.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

Most fundamentalists that have been friendly with me are generally not really OK with the idea that I am going to hell. They say things like, "I won't be able to find you in heaven" and "I wish you could be in heaven" etc. If you notice they have a painful desperation in their voices when they tell you about hell. They have just been raise or ''brain-washed'' into believing in an everlasting hell and thus it is true in their world. I sincerely feel sorry for them as when I go to bed at night I can sleep happily believing that no one is suffering in hell for an eternity.

 

[Jesuslovesme29]

I'm not sure her assertion is true. The Pope has said people of other faiths can be saved, reversing previous doctrine. It makes sense to me, since I believe God is good, just and loves everyone. I sure hope it's true anyway - so many great non-Christians in the world.

If the pope believes that, people who worship other gods, can go to heaven without faith in Christ than he is not abiding on His Word.

I am sorry but Jesus was very clear that he is the ONLY way.(John 14:6)

 

[Jesuslovesme29]

Most fundamentalists that have been friendly with me are generally not really OK with the idea that I am going to hell. They say things like, "I won't be able to find you in heaven" and "I wish you could be in heaven" etc. If you notice they have a painful desperation in their voices when they tell you about hell. They have just been raise or ''brain-washed'' into believing in an everlasting hell and thus it is true in their world. I sincerely feel sorry for them as when I go to bed at night I can sleep happily believing that no one is suffering in hell for an eternity.

Brainwashed? No we have experianced God and He has manifested Himself in us, we can no longer deny His existance when He is there in our lives everyday.

I see my mother everyday pretty much, it would be foolish to say she is not there, it is the same with Him.

 

[Jayangel81]

Brainwashed? No we have experianced God and He has manifested Himself in us, we can no longer deny His existance when He is there in our lives everyday.

I see my mother everyday pretty much, it would be foolish to say she is not there, it is the same with Him.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

Brainwashed? No we have experianced God and He has manifested Himself in us, we can no longer deny His existance when He is there in our lives everyday.

I see my mother everyday pretty much, it would be foolish to say she is not there, it is the same with Him.

But you don't see god, you just blindly believe in him. I don't disagree with your belief in god nor think it silly but I do take offence at fundamentalists raving about hell and claiming thet they have solid evidence that proves their belief system to be true.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

I'm not sure her assertion is true. The Pope has said people of other faiths can be saved, reversing previous doctrine. It makes sense to me, since I believe God is good, just and loves everyone. I sure hope it's true anyway - so many great non-Christians in the world.

And the pope, regardless of other faults, is right. Infact Catholic belief in universalism gets a lot of respect from me. Yes God is just, merciful and good. He is the symbol of love and eternal torment is not love.

 

[Jesuslovesme29]

But you don't see god, you just blindly believe in him. I don't disagree with your belief in god nor think it silly but I do take offence at fundamentalists raving about hell and claiming thet they have solid evidence that proves their belief system to be true.

Well, see that is where you are wrong. "you just blindly believe".

As I said, I experiance God every day of my life, to say that I blindly believe couldnt be farther from the truth.

Of coarse those who have not accepted Him and really sought Him out with all of there heart and soul wouldn't even begin to understand how we experience Him.

We have solid evidence of God because we have a personal relationship with Him and we experiance Him intimately in ways the world cannot even understand.

Of coarse what I say is also foolishness to others which I already knew, which a shame..

This is really all I want to say about it.

For what its worth, I do hope one day you and the rest come to really know Him, He is there and if you seek Him with all of your heart, you will find Him.

Take care

 

[Dharma Wheel]

We have solid evidence of God because we have a personal relationship with Him and we experiance Him intimately in ways the world cannot even understand.

But you don't have solid evidence that he exists, you just belive in him. There is a difference.

And I take issue when people claim to have a personal relationship with God. You have a religion, not a personal relationship. If your relationship was truly personal then you would be able to disagree with good and tell him what you think he is doing wrong. You cannot do this because he is not a personal friend to you.

For what its worth, I do hope one day you and the rest come to really know Him, He is there and if you seek Him with all of your heart, you will find Him.

For what it is worth, I do hope that one day you and the rest come to fully know the truth. It is there and if you seek it with all of your heart, you will find it.

Take care

You too.

 

[Jesuslovesme29]

But you don't have solid evidence that he exists, you just belive in him. There is a difference.

Do you read my posts? No I do not just believe in Him, I experiance Him every day of my life. I do not believe you know what I mean by experiance, but that is what a person will have to truely find out for themselved if they ever decide to accept His calling.

And I take issue when people claim to have a personal relationship with God. You have a religion, not a personal relationship.

:o Who are you to say that?

I will not pollute my relationship with religion. Again this is foolishness to understand to the natural man.

If your relationship was truly personal then you would be able to disagree with good and tell him what you think he is doing wrong. You cannot do this because he is not a personal friend to you.

Wow..

Thing is I know God isnt wrong..I know everything that gets done in my life is for the very best for me. Why and how do I know that? Because I have experianced the very goodness of God Himself, and I know it to be true. I do not just believe God is Good. I know with the very evidence that He reveals to me that He is Good.

He is more than my personal friend. He is my everything and the world cannot even begin to understand that.

I can really see where this is headed and who is behind it all so I will not be responding anymore to this thread. To tell someone they cannot have a relationship with someone is just silly and prideful.

Peace be with you friend.