Soyeong

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You are teaching that commandment keeping is how a person enters into Eternal life.
This denies the Cross, and rejects the Blood of Jesus.

Dont do that.

Instead teach that Jesus Himself IS Eternal life, and if we have HIM, "Christ in you the hope of Glory", and if we are born again '"IN Christ".....then we already have eternal life.

Teach that, and then you are in alignment with the NT, according to the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Jesus is the one who said that if we want to enter into eternal life, then obey the commandments, so I'm just quoting what he said. It is also true that Jesus is eternal life and that is because he lived in sinless obedience to the commandments. Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature, or in other words, he is the personification of God's character traits, and what that looked like was sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is who eternal life is and obedience to it is what is looks like when we have him. In 1 John 2:3-6, those who say that they know Christ, but don't obey his command are liars and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, which was in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in the Cross and accept the Blood of Jesus, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20) and will consider returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from to be denying the Cross and rejecting the Blood of Jesus. Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Grace of God.
 
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Behold

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, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Grace of God.

You dont need to be repenting from your sin, Soyeong.
You need to be, long ago, walking in perfected Christian Discipleship by right believing.
You keep sinning and repenting because you believe wrong.
When you believe wrong you live wrong. To live wrong as a Christian is to be sinning, confessing, and repenting and BELIEVING that this is what you are supposed to be doing.
This is deception.
So, until you are freed from wrong believing, you will keep talking about repenting from sin instead of not having to do this because you are free from the dominion of the Law.

"sin shall not have dominion over you"... "the power of SIN is the LAW".

Till you understand this, you will not be able to stop committing carnal behavior and living in guilt till you get all that worked out mentally by your particular fleshy approach to making yourself feel better by repenting and confessing, of which, none of it does anything for you at all, Reader.

God didnt save you because you promised to be good.
And God does not get rid of you because you are not always good.

Get PAST THIS CARNAL MENTALITY, and you will begin to experience the peace that will allow you to get out of that "sinning and confessing and repenting"< Christian Failed Life.
 
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visionary

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You are teaching that commandment keeping is how a person enters into Eternal life.
This denies the Cross, and rejects the Blood of Jesus.

Dont do that.

Instead teach that Jesus Himself IS Eternal life, and if we have HIM, "Christ in you the hope of Glory", and if we are born again '"IN Christ".....then we already have eternal life.

Teach that, and then you are in alignment with the NT, according to the Gospel of the Grace of God.
Can't find out about the cross or blood of Jesus unless you go through the law. You can not find eternal life without knowing the process.
 
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visionary

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You dont need to be repenting from your sin, Soyeong.
You need to be, long ago, walking in perfected Christian Discipleship by right believing.
You keep sinning and repenting because you believe wrong.
When you believe wrong you live wrong. To live wrong as a Christian is to be sinning, confessing, and repenting and BELIEVING that this is what you are supposed to be doing.
This is deception.
So, until you are freed from wrong believing, you will keep talking about repenting from sin instead of not having to do this because you are free from the dominion of the Law.

"sin shall not have dominion over you"... "the power of SIN is the LAW".

Till you understand this, you will not be able to stop committing carnal behavior and living in guilt till you get all that worked out mentally by your particular fleshy approach to making yourself feel better by repenting and confessing, of which, none of it does anything for you at all, Reader.

God didnt save you because you promised to be good.
And God does not get rid of you because you are not always good.

Get PAST THIS CARNAL MENTALITY, and you will begin to experience the peace that will allow you to get out of that "sinning and confessing and repenting"< Christian Failed Life.
It is a born again experience that reveals the power of sin revealed by the Holy Spirit shining His Light upon the Law and revealing the depth of sin as God sees it. Then comes conviction, for without the Holy Spirit revealing the breath, depth, and length, from seed, root, branch, fruits of sin as outline by the Law, you will not have the understanding of its deception. Walking outside the law, declaring lawlessness is Godliness is never going happen in God's kingdom among God's people.
 
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Soyeong

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You dont need to be repenting from your sin, Soyeong.
You need to be, long ago, walking in perfected Christian Discipleship by right believing.
You keep sinning and repenting because you believe wrong.
When you believe wrong you live wrong. To live wrong as a Christian is to be sinning, confessing, and repenting and BELIEVING that this is what you are supposed to be doing.
This is deception.
So, until you are freed from wrong believing, you will keep talking about repenting from sin instead of not having to do this because you are free from the dominion of the Law.

"sin shall not have dominion over you"... "the power of SIN is the LAW".

Till you understand this, you will not be able to stop committing carnal behavior and living in guilt till you get all that worked out mentally by your particular fleshy approach to making yourself feel better by repenting and confessing, of which, none of it does anything for you at all, Reader.

God didnt save you because you promised to be good.
And God does not get rid of you because you are not always good.

Get PAST THIS CARNAL MENTALITY, and you will begin to experience the peace that will allow you to get out of that "sinning and confessing and repenting"< Christian Failed Life.

Over and over the consistent message of the prophets was to call people to repent from our sins, the same is true of John the Baptist, and even Jesus began his ministry with that message. In Acts 2:38, Peter called his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that we don't need to repent from our sins. Repenting is changing our thinking, so repenting from our sins is not separate from repenting from wrong beliefs.

It is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us and it is the law of sin that is the power of sin, not God's law. In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law and served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which he served with his flesh. In Romans 7:7, God's law is not sinful, but reveals what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then it leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease. However, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase, so it is the opposite of God's law.

The Bible always describes carnal behavior as being in disobedience to God's law and never a living in obedience to it. For example, in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have carnal minds who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7, Nehemiah 9:13) and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so God can be trusted to set us up for success, nor for failure.
 
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JIMINZ

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FYI.

I dont use commentaries.
I dont read websites, or use anything found "online".
If you have an issue with what i teach, then take it up with Paul the Apostle.
I only teach his doctrine (Pauline Theology) that you find offensive because it has no relationship to your religion, studyman.
So, that would be your issue to resolve.

I cannot believe both of us are having parallel conversations with the same people.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

I'm not going to pursue this nonsense any longer,.

Have a Blessed day. :wave:
 
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Studyman

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Here is the simple theology i've Taught on this Forum.
Try reading it.
=
How the Law harms you.

Oh I have. I've printed it, passed it out among my brethren and we had a wonderful study sessions regarding it. I think I have a perfect grasp of the implications of your theology.

My disagreement stems from what the Bible, including Paul, actually teaches. I tried to point out the most glaring errors, but alas, they are ignored. Not even addressed.

To believe you, I would have to be convinced that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "blessed" their children as promised, by delivering them out of Egypt, only to place on their necks a Yoke of Bondage worse that the one they were under in Egypt, worse than the Commandments, Statutes and Laws of God Abraham had. That God placed laws so many in number, so grievous and burdensome, that it was impossible for them to obey. But He commanded them to obey nonetheless, and when they didn't, HE slaughtered them anyway.

According to your theology, This was their reward for placing the blood of the Lamb on their door posts and Lintel. This was their reward for trusting in the God of Abraham and following Him across the Red Sea. According to you, the Land of Milk and Honey was a land with Laws which were so "harmful" to them that they "devastated" them.

And it actually seems as if you really belief this is the God of Abraham.

I don't know where you got your "over 600 Laws" doctrine, nor do I know where you got your religion which preaches God's Instructions for HIS people are harmful for them. All I know for sure is it wasn't Paul, it wasn't Jesus, and it wasn't His Father and my Father.

I truly hope you might consider.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You are changing the verse again.
You are stating a part of the verse, to try to create a false theology, by denying the context.
See, The heretic always lives in James, Hebrews, and Matthew.
Did you know this?

The heretic will always try to bend this verse.....>"faith without works", into this heresy..."faith without works' = Dead Salvation.

Don't do that.

I didn't change anything. I said: Faith without works is dead...YOU added = dead SALVATION. It is YOU that is changing it. I guess your problem is with James...
 
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Behold

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Over and over the consistent message of the prophets was to call people to repent from our sins, .

Jesus died on the Cross to give you a New Testament.
Try reading it, and get OUT of the Old Testament.
You are not realizing that there is a NEW Covenant, that has replaced your idea of lawkeeping and self effort to try to be accepted by God.
Ive good NEWS for you.
There is a CROSS. There is a SAVIOR. You are free to exist in Him, as a new creation = "IN CHRIST"
"The GIFT of Righteousness".
 
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Behold

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My disagreement stems from what the Bible, including Paul, actually teaches. I tried to point out the most glaring errors, but alas, they are ignored. Not even addressed.
To believe you, I would have to be convinced that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "blessed" their children as promised, by delivering them out of Egypt, only to place on their necks a Yoke of Bondage worse that the one they were under in Egypt, worse than the Commandments,.
I don't know where you got your "over 600 Laws"

It would be a cult group that would read my simple teaching of Pauline Theology and become confused, as you seem to be, completely.
Also, i never talk about the Old Testament, and yet, you keep insinuating that i am using it to explain the New Testament.
So, thats deceit, and you should try to be honest, if possible.
I teach NT.
I dont teach, OT.

Also, where do i get the 600 "laws"?
You really dont know do you.. studyman
And you are teaching people in a group?
wow.
-
The content of the Law is spread among the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, and then reiterated and added to in Deuteronomy. This includes:

613 > Studyman.

Be sure you tell your "group" that number, as you dont want to confuse them more then you already have..
 
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Behold

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I didn't change anything. I said: Faith without works is dead...YOU added = dead SALVATION. It is YOU that is changing it. I guess your problem is with James...

Dead faith is not to "lose your salvation".
Its simply to become cold to the things of God and the term is "backslidden".
"backslider".

Here is something more for you to know..
Only a Christian can become a backslider...
Being a backslider, is not to lose your salvation.
Remember that, haderekh
 
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Soyeong

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Jesus died on the Cross to give you a New Testament.
Try reading it, and get OUT of the Old Testament.
You are not realizing that there is a NEW Covenant, that has replaced your idea of lawkeeping and self effort to try to be accepted by God.
Ive good NEWS for you.
There is a CROSS. There is a SAVIOR. You are free to exist in Him, as a new creation = "IN CHRIST"
"The GIFT of Righteousness".

Jesus set a sinless example for how to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and He did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus set us free from God's law, but that he redeemed us from all lawlessness so you saying that he God's law undermines what he went to the cross to accomplish.

About 1/3 of the verses in the NT contain quotes or allusions to the OT, which the NT authors did thousands of times in order to show that it supported what they were saying and to show that they hadn't departed from it by word and by example, so they certainly saw the OT as still being authoritative. Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy to defeat the temptation of Satan. In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so the OT is the standard by which we should accept that what is written in the NT is true.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so obedience to it has always been about putting our faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live and has never been about self effort.

Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so it is contradictory for you to want a SAVIOR from living in transgression of God's law while not wanting to live in obedience to it. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law. Being new creation is about dying to living in sin and rising again to newness of life in obedience to God. The reason that we have received the gift of righteousness of Christ was not in order to hide it under a bushel, but in order to express it through our obedience in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow of how he expressed his righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law.
 
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Behold

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Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so it is contradictory for you to want a SAVIOR from living in transgression of God's law while not wanting to live in obedience to it.

Im not living in transgression to God's law, so, i have to conclude that you are posting while not reading anything im actually teaching.
Go back and read it.
Here is what i teach. 'Pauline Theology".
"justification by faith", without the works of the law.
"Grace through Faith", as "the Gift of Righteousness".

Its fine to talk about the law, and the commandments. Its good to see them as a lifestyle boundary.
Its heresy to teach that we are to keep them, so that God will accept us only if we do.

Be sure you understand that.
 
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Soyeong

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Im not living in transgression to God's law, so, i have to conclude that you are posting while not reading anything im actually teaching.
Go back and read it.
Here is what i teach. 'Pauline Theology".
"justification by faith", without the works of the law.
"Grace through Faith", as "the Gift of Righteousness".

Its fine to talk about the law, and the commandments. Its good to see them as a lifestyle boundary.
Its heresy to teach that we are to keep them, so that God will accept us only if we do.

Be sure you understand that.

Sorry, I misspoke.

We do not earn our justification or by obeying God's law because it was never given for that purpose. What we believe is expressed through our actions, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, so the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed as obedience. Only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by obeying the law.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Dead faith is not to "lose your salvation".
Its simply to become cold to the things of God and the term is "backslidden".
"backslider".

Here is something more for you to know..
Only a Christian can become a backslider...
Being a backslider, is not to lose your salvation.
Remember that, haderekh

Wow, how much more dishonest can you be?!?! First you change scripture. Then you misinterpret them. Now you create an argument I NEVER made, imply I made it and then try to "correct" me??? I don't know why anyone would listen to anything you say...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Jesus died on the Cross to give you a New Testament.
Try reading it, and get OUT of the Old Testament.
You are not realizing that there is a NEW Covenant, that has replaced your idea of lawkeeping and self effort to try to be accepted by God.
Ive good NEWS for you.
There is a CROSS. There is a SAVIOR. You are free to exist in Him, as a new creation = "IN CHRIST"
"The GIFT of Righteousness".

So condescending...everyone can see it. Without the "Old" there would be no "New". None of us has said what you are implying. Just so dishonest...
 
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Studyman

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It would be a cult group that would read my simple teaching of Pauline Theology and become confused, as you seem to be, completely.
Also, i never talk about the Old Testament, and yet, you keep insinuating that i am using it to explain the New Testament.
So, thats deceit, and you should try to be honest, if possible.
I teach NT.
I dont teach, OT.


But with respect, according to the Scriptures, Paul did teach the Law and Prophets, even though you don't. He said the Gospel of Christ (the Christ of the Bible) was found "therein". "The Just shall live by Faith" (Old Testament Scripture) He teaches That the very existence of the Law and Prophets was specifically written for the people of our time.

1 Cor. 10:
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Isn't Paul saying "Don't be ignorant of the Law and Prophets"?

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Paul says the OT was written "For us". I would humbly ask you then, why don't you teach it?

2 Tim. 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Old Testament was the only Scriptures available when Timothy was a child.

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. (He was accused of not teaching the Old Testament)

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

As I said before, my issue with many of your religious statements has nothing to do with my religious views, it has everything to do with your departure from what the Scriptures actually teach.

Also, where do i get the 600 "laws"?

You really dont know do you.. studyman

And you are teaching people in a group?

wow.



As for your continuing promotion of the religious deception that God placed 613 laws on the backs of His people, where can I start?

This cut and paste is very cleaver, and subtle. It includes every law of a Priesthood given specifically to the Levite which God Separated from Israel. Laws that Israel were not to even partake of.

Let me show you an example of the deception of the "voice" who preaches that God placed 613 Laws on the backs of His people.


Lev. 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

So there is the law. "Don't uncover the nakedness of your kin". Frankly, I don't find this Law "devastating" for mankind, nor harmful to them. Actually, it seems like a pretty good, just, and Holy Law. But that is just me.

But then God goes on to define "kin".

7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. 9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover. 10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness. 11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman. 13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman. 14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt. 15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness. 17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness. 18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.


So this is one "LAW", "don't uncover the nakedness of thy kin." But the deceivers on the article which says there are 613 laws, count each of these as separate laws laid on the necks of God's People. So this 1 Law, becomes 20 laws for the purpose of promoting the theology that God's Laws are harmful to man.

This is done over and over by these deceivers to create a false image about God and His instruction.

Paul never accused God of placing 613 Laws on the backs of His people. Paul never suggested God placed too many Laws on the backs of His people. In Fact, in the entire Bible there is NEVER, not even ONE reference, suggestion or even hint, that God placed "So many" or "too many" Laws on the Backs of the People. In fact, there is only one place in the entire Bible where it speaks to someone placing "burdens" on the shoulders of men.


Matt. 23:4 For they (Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

What is ironic, almost funny, is the promoters of the Talmud, the very Jews Jesus said placed burdens on the shoulders of men, are the same ones who created the "613 laws" myth you quoted to help further your theology that God's Laws were harmful for his people.

So then there is Biblical Truth and there are deceptions. You teaching that God placed 613 Laws on the backs of His People is a deception. It is not true. Nothing you say, or copy and paste, will make it true. The one question that remains is; "Now what"?
 
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Behold

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Sorry, I misspoke.

We do not earn our justification or by obeying God's law because it was never given for that purpose. What we believe is expressed through our actions, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, so the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed as obedience. Only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by obeying the law.

All believers are justified by faith.
This is how God saves us.
Following this SALVATION, we are to live a life of perfected discipleship.
However, we are not saved or kept saved by our discipleship.
We are only saved and kept saved by the blood of Jesus.
 
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Behold

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Apr 5, 2020
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Wow, how much more dishonest can you be?!?! First you change scripture. Then you misinterpret them. Now you create an argument I NEVER made, imply I made it and then try to "correct" me??? I don't know why anyone would listen to anything you say...

Actually, im just teaching the verses.
You seem to be confused by this.....which is odd.
Listen i can cut and paste verses if you need this to feel more comfortable.
I dont like to do it, as its better to teach the verses.
However, if this will help you, then just tell me what you favorite bible version is, and i'll try to use those verses so that you feel more comfortable here.
You seem upset, and i dont want you to be upset.
I want you to be able to learn, and you can't learn when you are upset, because when you are upset, you won't actually pay attention to what im teaching.

James teaches that we are to show our faith, .. the fruit of our faith, before other people.
He says that he will show you His faith, by his works.
He does not teach that if you have dead faith, that you have lost your salvation.
A lot of heretics try to teach this false idea regarding some of what James is teaching.
 
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