How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Jazer]

This is ad hoc theology.

O Well, I am glad we got that all straightened out.

You know good and well Jesus taught of an imminent return, and Paul attested to this as well.

I don't know what you think I know. But just because some dead church somewhere decided to teach you something, does not mean that is what I believe.

 

[Jazer]

You missed the point completely.

Because everyone wants to talk to me at once, and then you complain when I am trying to carry on three conversations at one time.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

O Well, I am glad we got that all straightened out. I don't know what you think I know. But just because some dead church somewhere decided to teach you something, does not mean that is what I believe.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

 

[Ar Cosc]

O Well, I am glad we got that all straightened out. I don't know what you think I know. But just because some dead church somewhere decided to teach you something, does not mean that is what I believe.

You'd think God would at least stop his churches from dying. Anyone would think he enjoyed people getting the wrong idea so he could send them to Hell!

 

[MoonLancer]

You didn't ask for knowledge that an atheist could learn from.

Not in those exact words. Theist makes a claim of knowledge. I ask them to demonstrate it. If you cant do that, why are we having this conversation?

You are not in the position to know what or what I did not learn.

Your anecdotal story did not demonstrate any knowledge of God.

Which I did. The fact that you didn't is of no consequence.

You demonstrated faith and increased belief. You did not demonstrate that you know God anymore then before.

Knowledge of God comes from a personal relationship and does grow from that, the fact that you can not understand is really not something I can help you with.

So what did you learn? or did you just read the bible and event reinforced what you already believed?

Relationship. Knowledge. These words have meaning. Dont throw them around so haphazardly as to defeat their very definition.

 

[selfinflikted]

Because everyone wants to talk to me at once, and then you complain when I am trying to carry on three conversations at one time.

Slow down, then. There's no rush.

 

[Skaloop]

I really do not like sharing personal experiences due to the fact that they can be dismissed so readily and yet they are very personal to the one that has them. Regardless, I will tell you of one instance that gave me knowledge that God cares for each of us on a very personal level.

Background: My husband and I left our lives in another state so that our daughter would be closer to extended family. We were a little concerned about starting somewhere else and had been praying about it. We were hoping that God would give us some sort of sign that we were doing the right thing. It wasn't long that we started seeing the northern lights spread across the sky. It is pretty rare in this area, in fact few people have ever seen them. Cars were pulling over to stand and watch. We thought this might be the sign we were looking for.

So jump ahead some seven years later. My husband is a painter and he and I were going to a near by town to see if he could get some art sold. I had done some sculpting as well and we were in need of cash. We had been trying to live on art and I wasn't so sure we should be. (Wasn't giving us much of an income) So we tried all the places we thought might be interested and sold a few things but it was pretty much a disappointment. My mother-in-law and husband were in the front seat, while I sat rather dejected in the back. I was asking God what we should do and I remembered for some reason the time earlier when we saw the northern lights and how we felt it was a sign. I asked God that if we were doing the right thing to show me the Northern lights again. We were just leaving a small town and so when at first I saw a red haze I questioned if I was just seeing the lights from town. I even asked my husband if he thought the sky was turning red. He said he thought it was just the lights from the town. So I sat there a few more minutes still praying and then the sky just went crazy. Red and green swept across the sky. It was incredible. I couldn't believe my eyes. The lights continued until we pulled into our driveway and then just stopped.

I have no proof of this. It is one of those things that you can dismiss, but I am being perfectly honest here. It happened.

For starters, I am not about to question the importance of this event for you, and I am not going to be saying you are a liar or are making it all up. Please keep that in mind, because I am just going to point out a few areas where I would have some questions, and why.

For starters, the initial time the Northern Lights showed up as a sign, you prayed and then "It wasn't long" before you started seeing them. How long? A minute? Ten? Thirty? Because it's been shown that people have a widely varying window on when something happens to consider it linked to something else. Second, you say that the Northern Lights are "pretty rare" in that area. How rare? How often do the Northern Lights show up around there? Once a year? Once every few months? Once a decade? What about in the specific area you were in at the time?

The second time you saw the Northern Lights after praying for them as a sign, again, how soon after praying did it actually happen? How soon after you got home did they disappear? How rare are the Northern Lights in that part of Nebraska? Because a quick search on the issue shows that there are a good number of things named after the Northern Lights, from streets to malls, which indicates that they maybe aren't that rare. Other questions I might have are whether you were in a city or out in the country when you were driving back from selling the art. And what sort of area you live in (urban or suburban or rural), the streetlight situation on the streets leading to you home, and the lighting situation in your driveway and around your house. Because the Northern Lights are more visible in the dark of the country than the brightness of the city.

That's where my questions would come from. The way you tell the story, the implication seems to be that the Northern Lights went away the instant you got home, with the underlying meaning that God ended His sign for you. But how much leeway should be given to the instant when you got home? And was it that the Northern Lights went away, or could it be that you arrived at a place of greater light pollution that prevented you from seeing them?

Further questions would be around whether those specific Northern Lights were visible elsewhere around the world that night, whether they coincided with the appropriate sort of sun activity that produces the Northern Lights, and whether they had been predicted beforehand based on that sun activity.

 

[AV1611VET]

You'd think God would at least stop his churches from dying.

Why should someone who believes in dispensation theology think that, when he knows that each dispensation will end in failure and judgment?

(Nevermind -- I'm sure that's over your head, as you'll probably demonstrate; and I'll respond with QED.)

 

[Delphiki]

I find it appalling that someone, such as Jazer, can see themselves as part of some higher moral ground when they accuse the same people that dedicate their lives to humanity, saving lives, and searching for cures of being at fault for the majority of deaths in the world.

It's sick and maddening.

I'll just have to keep telling myself that you don't represent the whole of your religion, even while it gets increasingly more difficult each day.

 

[Jazer]

Why should someone who believes in dispensation theology think that, when he knows that each dispensation will end in failure and judgment?

WHAT? I thought they end in victory and that we are overcomers.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Why should someone who believes in dispensation theology think that, when he knows that each dispensation will end in failure and judgment?

(Nevermind -- I'm sure that's over your head, as you'll probably demonstrate; and I'll respond with QED.)

I should have added the disclaimer "if God wasn't evil". Dispensation theology makes much more sense if God is malicious, and using humanity as his plaything.

 

[Jazer]

I find it appalling that someone, such as Jazer, can see themselves as part of some higher moral ground when they accuse the same people that dedicate their lives to humanity, saving lives, and searching for cures of being at fault for the majority of deaths in the world.

My father was a medical doctor for 50 years, back when they use to set broken bones and do stitches. My brother is a medical doctor and the director of a clinic. My other brother is a Phd in Psychology and he was the director of the psychology department at the local hospital. In my familty it is just a matter of survival. Actually if you count my grandfather and uncle and aunt. There are lots of doctors and Phds when we have a family gathering. So I grew up reading medical books and reading medical journals that talk about this stuff on the inside. I do not buy their wizzard of Oz act the way you seem to. We need to keep everything in proper perspective.

 

[AV1611VET]

WHAT? I thought they end in victory and that we are overcomers.

Each of the seven dispensations end in failure on our part -- and judgment:

1. Innocence = expulsion from Garden of Eden
2. Conscience = the Flood
3. Human Government = Tower of Babel
4. Promise = Egyptian Capitivity
5. Law = the Cross
6. Grace/Church Age = the Tribulation
7. [Millennial] Kingdom = Great White Throne Judgment

We become 'overcomers' when we accept Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Ar Cosc]

Each of the seven dispensations end in failure on our part -- and judgment:

1. Innocence = expulsion from Garden of Eden
2. Conscience = the Flood
3. Human Government = Tower of Babel
4. Promise = Egyptian Capitivity
5. Law = the Cross
6. Grace/Church Age = the Tribulation
7. [Millennial] Kingdom = Great White Throne Judgment

We become 'overcomers' when we accept Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

That's a cute story, did you make it up all by yourself?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why should someone who believes in dispensation theology think that, when he knows that each dispensation will end in failure and judgment?

(Nevermind -- I'm sure that's over your head, as you'll probably demonstrate; and I'll respond with QED.)

I should have added the disclaimer "if God wasn't evil". Dispensation theology makes much more sense if God is malicious, and using humanity as his plaything.

QED

 

[Cabal]

I should have added the disclaimer "if God wasn't evil". Dispensation theology makes much more sense if God is malicious, and using humanity as his plaything.

IMO dystheism is a lot more consistent with the Biblical account than theism, and not just with regard to dispensationalism.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's a cute story, did you make it up all by yourself?

It's called dispensation theology -- ask Frenchy; or, better yet, get a Scofield Reference Bible.

 

[Ar Cosc]

QED

QED what? Your version of christianity requires God to allow the devil access to humanity, for him to deliberately plant geological and cosmological evidence in opposition to the bible, to favour one race over another, to allow famine, war, disease, and natural disasters to kill millions, and occasionally burn the odd city for a bit of a laugh. Have you ever sat back and had a proper critical think about what it is you believe?

 

[AV1611VET]

IMO dystheism is a lot more consistent with the Biblical account than theism, and not just with regard to dispensationalism.

I agree → that's your opinion.

 

[AV1611VET]

QED what? Your version of christianity requires God to allow the devil access to humanity, for him to deliberately plant geological and cosmological evidence in opposition to the bible, to favour one race over another, to allow famine, war, disease, and natural disasters to kill millions, and occasionally burn the odd city for a bit of a laugh. Have you ever sat back and had a proper critical think about what it is you believe?

Um ... this has nothing to do with dispensation theology.

You're digging yourself into a deeper hole, here.