How should we respond to Justin Peters' challenge to modern prophets?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Even if it was true, as testified by prophets and apostles who say they have been to heaven and are promoted in the charismatic church, that fish in heaven wear sunglasses, that Trump is president in heaven, that you can ride on a Pterodactyl or that you can have your own chocolate fountain in heaven.

Even if it's true that fishes in heaven wear sunglasses how would it advance the Kingdom of God by me knowing that? Would studying a passage of the bible not be of greater use?

God Bless

Yep. All that is koo koo banana town stuff. The concerning part of it is that these people are lying. They haven't been to heaven at all. When people go to heaven they don't come back.

Paul said that he knew a man who was caught up into the third heaven where he saw things that was not lawful for a man to utter. So if Paul couldn't talk about what the man, or himself as some believe, saw in heaven, then no one else should. Yet these loopy tunes pelicans blab to all and sundry about what they say they saw. It is not only fishy that they saw fish with sunglasses, but their whole testimony smells very much like rotten fish!

 

[ARBITER01]

Just so we don't have people thinking it is ok to come into this forum and bash people of our denominations and faith groups,...

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Just so we don't have people thinking it is ok to come into this forum and bash people of our denominations and faith groups,...

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

I don't think that Justin Peters is bashing Charismatics in general. What he is saying is that he is disappointed that Bible-believing, ordinary Charismatics are not speaking out against the Word-Faith preachers and teachers who have departed from the central theology of the Charismatic movement. I had the privilege of being discipled as a young man by two very good Pentecostal pastors, and they would not have had a bar of what is going on today with the Word-Faith teachers. T D Jacques is a modalist who denies the Trinity. I was invited to a meal with a couple who were modalists and my old pastor told me if I went and fellowshiped with them, I could leave his church. He viewed people who denied the Trinity as absolute heretics, and would have viewed T D Jacques as not a Christian at all. My pastor would have viewed the Prosperity doctrine as a demonic doctrine. He was very strong on the gifts of the Spirit, and taught that to be successful in the true use of the gifts one had to be a personal of prayer and of the Word. He always corrected me from the Bible, and he was a stickler for holiness and said that if a person wasn't holy, then any ministry they had was false and not supported by the Holy Spirit. He believed that repentance from sin and getting right with God as essential for a genuine conversion to Christ, and because he had a Methodist Holiness background, believed that holiness of life was essential for staying converted (which tended toward Arminianism than Calvinism).

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't think that Justin Peters is bashing Charismatics in general.

The mods might not agree with you Oscarr. I think it is best to not wax eloquent about how great Justin Peters is in his endeavors against Charismatics in this forum, it could invariably bring attention to your posts. Why not save it for the controversial section that you like to post in?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The mods might not agree with you Oscarr. I think it is best to not wax eloquent about how great Justin Peters is in his endeavors against Charismatics in this forum, it could invariably bring attention to your posts. Why not save it for the controversial section that you like to post in?

All I am doing is defending a brother in Christ against unfair, hateful and unChristian accusations from people who are supposed to be professing Christians. All he has done is to study what Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel have said about false prophets and people who say they have words from God when they haven't, and applied it to those who profess to be modern prophets. He has merely considered the clear evidence that their prophecies have never come to pass and questions if their prophecies don't work and evidently God has not spoken to them, why should they continue their prophetic ministry. By the same token, if a person who says he is a mechanic shows by evidence that he is unsuccessful at fixing cars, he wouldn't be a mechanic for very long, or if an airline pilot cannot fly an airplane he wouldn't be one. Either he would fail the training or crash the airplane. Yet, we keep false and unsuccessful prophets in ministry and still believe that God is speaking to them. How does that work?

I don't think I have said anything here that violates the terms of the forum. All I have said is that we should test the spirits to see whether they are of God or not. That is not a criticism of genuine Spirit-filled Charismatic prophetic people. It is applying Scripture in the face that many false prophets are invading the Charismatic movement and bringing the true prophetic ministry into disrepute. Even Jesus warned about false prophets. Does that mean that Jesus, the Apostle John and Paul could run foul of the moderators if they posted in this forum what they have said in the Scriptures? I don't think so. As Paul said, we need to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. There is good prophecy in the Charismatic movement, as well as genuine healing, and the proper use of the other gifts of the Spirit. But in order not to be deceived, as we all could be if we are not careful, we need to know what is true and what is false.

 

[ARBITER01]

How does that work?

Maybe it works like this,.... worry about your own church.

It's not wrong to take note of those who are misusing their time and positions with GOD, but it is not to be our sole endeavor to bash on those people and cause division, especially if they are not operating in your church.

We are to be at peace with each other, not have a crusade against other Christians outside of your own assembly.

This isn't the proper forum for you to promote cessationists in.

 

[jiminpa]

No one seems to be able to say what aspects of God's Word that Mr Peters is denying and refusing. If you won't specify, then the accusation is meaningless.

Also, I don't understand the expression "anointed" as pertains to ordinary believers. Sounds like it is being used as a buzz word that means nothing.

Also, every genuinely converted Christian believer is Spirit-filled, aren't they? Where is a Scripture reference to say they are not? By the way, you can't use any references from Acts, because it is an historical narrative which is descriptive and not prescriptive for believers unless the text expressly says so.

He doesn't believe that what cessationists, unbiblically, call the sign gifts are still operation, which has no basis in scripture, and criticizes those who do believe the Bible. He uses editing techniques to take quotes out of context and pervert what Christians are saying to appear to be something else, which makes him a liar, and is a violation of scripture. He claims Isaiah 53 means something other than what it says. He doesn't believe the Bible and attacks people who do, which makes him a very good follower of reformed theology, and a very bad follower of Jesus.

 

[jiminpa]

He is a cessationist, so foundationally he disputes the teachings of the Bible, and he is a reformationist, so again, he fundamentally disputes the teachings of the Bible. We go over most of those areas every time a cessationist comes on here to argue with us. They pack up and play with the biblically ignorant somewhere else pretty quickly.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

He doesn't believe that what cessationists, unbiblically, call the sign gifts are still operation, which has no basis in scripture, and criticizes those who do believe the Bible. He uses editing techniques to take quotes out of context and pervert what Christians are saying to appear to be something else, which makes him a liar, and is a violation of scripture. He claims Isaiah 53 means something other than what it says. He doesn't believe the Bible and attacks people who do, which makes him a very good follower of reformed theology, and a very bad follower of Jesus.

The fact is that the foremost healing teachers talk and give speeches about healing, but they can't heal anyone, and they know it. They know they can't do the miracles they say they can do, yet they promise that if people contribute money to their ministries, God will reward them with a miracle. But it never happens, and people like Benny Hinn know it full well, and they know that they are getting money from people with promises that they know they can't keep. It is a total scam in the same way that Indian call centre scammers are scamming hundreds of thousands of dollars offering services that they know are false, like fixing people's computers but in reality doing nothing at all, and when people realise that there was nothing wrong with their computers in the first place and have lost hundreds of dollars, it is too late for them to get their money back. It is the same with people contributing a "miracle offering" to a Word-Faith prosperity and healing ministry and by the time they realise that no miracle is forthcoming they can't get their money back. The Bible calls that stealing. These charlatans know they are offering a non-existent service and are making millions of dollars out of it. This is what Justin Peters is exposing. He is working to prevent vulnerable people being scammed out of money they can't afford to give to these "clouds without water."

These are not the same ones who were part of the Pentecostal revival of the early 20th Century, nor are they the ones who were brought to Christ during the Charismatic Renewal of the 1960s. These scammers are a totally different breed which bear no resemblance to the early Pentecostals or Charismatics. I am not denying that the sign gifts are for today, but they are not happening through these false teachers and faith healers. Even when they speak in tongues any genuine Charismatic will see that it is fake when it is coming out of their mouths.

 

[jiminpa]

Maybe it works like this,.... worry about your own church.

It's not wrong to take note of those who are misusing their time and positions with GOD, but it is not to be our sole endeavor to bash on those people and cause division, especially if they are not operating in your church.

We are to be at peace with each other, not have a crusade against other Christians outside of your own assembly.

This isn't the proper forum for you to promote cessationists in.

But then these professional "Christian" gossip columnists would have to get productive jobs, and why would they want to do that.

 

[jiminpa]

I know of a false teacher that this guy could go after, someone he knows very, very well, and he wouldn't have to misquote him, or lie about him or anything.

Let's just be honest. Cessationists preachers are false teachers, some intentionally, and others unintentionally, but they are all teaching false doctrine. And I have good friends who are cessationists, but I limit my conversations about the things of God with them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

He is a cessationist, so foundationally he disputes the teachings of the Bible, and he is a reformationist, so again, he fundamentally disputes the teachings of the Bible. We go over most of those areas every time a cessationist comes on here to argue with us. They pack up and play with the biblically ignorant somewhere else pretty quickly.

Although I disagree with Mr Peters that God decreed that the sign gifts should pass away at the end of the Apostolic Age, I do agree with him concerning the false Word-Faith prophets and teachers, and those who promise guaranteed healing but actually produce nothing.

The Bible clearly teaches that the gifts of the Spirit are for use in today's churches. If people just believed the Bible, we would see them in action. The reason why the spiritual gifts declined and ceased after the 4th Century is because the Church went apostate and went away from the Apostle's doctrine and the standard of holiness and commitment to Christ that was essential for the Holy Spirit to move freely. But there were groups through the centuries that were Bible-based and had the spiritual gifts manifesting in their meetings, but these group were ruthlessly suppressed by the apostate church. Although their literature was destroyed, we still have court transcripts and can see the truth when reading through the lines of the prosecution and defence cases. The Pentecostal revival was a general restoration of the spiritual gifts, as was the Charismatic Renewal of the 1960s. There are many testimonies of the spiritual gifts being genuinely manifested during those times. But the devil was threatened, and so he has worked to corrupt the Charismatic movement and to turn it into something quite different by riddling it with false teaching and false promises of healing and prosperity by false teachers who are in it for just the money they can extract from the faithful.

What the church needs is another general Bible-based revival where the Spirit is not grieved or quench, and is able to lift Jesus up and glorify Him again.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I know of a false teacher that this guy could go after, someone he knows very, very well, and he wouldn't have to misquote him, or lie about him or anything.

Let's just be honest. Cessationists preachers are false teachers, some intentionally, and others unintentionally, but they are all teaching false doctrine. And I have good friends who are cessationists, but I limit my conversations about the things of God with them.

For once, Bill Johnson made an accurate prophecy, albeit mainly unintended. He said that if we can provide comprehensive demonstration of supernatural gifts and miracles, the cessationist movement would be totally silenced. I fully believe that prophecy, even though I don't go along with much of his teaching. If we are prepared to pray that God will make that prophecy come true, we might see a general manifestation of God's power that will be unmistakable and that when prophetic people say they have a word from God, it will be genuine and the outcome will be truly of God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This isn't the proper forum for you to promote cessationists in.

That is unfair. Let's be honest here; you know very well that I am not promoting cessationists, and I never have if you have read my previous posts over the years on this forum.

Anyway, I have made my points, so I will go away and think about something else less controversial, if that is possible with me.

 

[jiminpa]

That is unfair. Let's be honest here; you know very well that I am not promoting cessationists, and I never have if you have read my previous posts over the years on this forum.

Anyway, I have made my points, so I will go away and think about something else less controversial, if that is possible with me.

Isn't this Justin Peters guy that you are promoting a cessationist?

 

[jiminpa]

All I am doing is defending a brother in Christ against unfair, hateful and unChristian accusations from people who are supposed to be professing Christians.

I think you have that exactly backwards. You are defending a lying accuser, while we are defending the brethren, and then you accuse us of attacking the lying accuser for identifying him as what he is. Granted, he is salting his lies with some truth, but the seasoning of truth doesn't validate the lies.

 

[mourningdove~]

Just so we don't have people thinking it is ok to come into this forum and bash people of our denominations and faith groups,...

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

Thank you very much for addressing this.

I think we all 'get it' now ... that not all persons claiming to be prophets actually are.


So to any False Prophet Hunters here, some confirmation:
"We get it. We get it." So you do not need to keep telling us, over and over again, posting again and again and again, in thread after thread after thread, about all the false prophets that you see; we see them, too! We get it!

To me, the false prophet discussion has been totally 'worn out' in this forum, and would be best addressed in a cessationist forum ... or a forum full of false prophets. lol

These discussions were helpful here after the 2020 election, but I see them as no longer being edifying. They border now more on just working to tear down the prophetic gift, destroying any belief in a modern day prophet. And that is not good. And I do believe that is against House Rules.

I can understand the concern some may have for persons listening to a false prophet. I can understand the concern, especially by those that have been 'burned' by a prophet experience or by those who perhaps themselves were once deceived into thinking they were a prophet. I get it. I had to deal with some of those issues myself, and did lose faith in prophecy for a time, but God has since corrected, instructed, and restored my faith. He did it, not any voice here online.

The continual harping on false prophets may be well intentioned ... "thank you" ... but after so much discussion, if anyone here is still following a false prophet? Well, let's trust God to show them the error of their way. The Holy Spirit of Truth lives in us. And He is very capable of revealing truth ...

... let's have some faith in Him.

God bless.

 

[mourningdove~]

Granted, he is salting his lies with some truth, but the seasoning of truth doesn't validate the lies.

QFT

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Isn't this Justin Peters guy that you are promoting a cessationist?

I am not promoting him on this forum. I am speaking in defence of what he is saying about false prophets and teachers, against the nasty, unfair, and unChristian accusations made against him. Frankly, to be honest, I don't know how those libelous accusations can be consistent with a claim of being Spirit-filled and having the fruit of the Spirit which consists of love, gentleness, and kindness. I have had many lively debates with cessationists on the forum and they have treated me with a lot more respect than how I have been treated here.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think you have that exactly backwards. You are defending a lying accuser, while we are defending the brethren, and then you accuse us of attacking the lying accuser for identifying him as what he is. Granted, he is salting his lies with some truth, but the seasoning of truth doesn't validate the lies.

He is not a lying accuser at all. He is rightly pointing out the false teaching of the Word-faith prophets whose predictions don't come to pass and who are unable to to predict any of the significant world events and while saying that they are hearing from God. He is not "attacking" ordinary Bible believing Charismatics at all and if you viewed his videos without prejudice, you will see that for yourself.