How should we respond to Justin Peters' challenge to modern prophets?

[ByTheSpirit]

I'm just curious, do we have Charismatic ministers that have on their website that the purpose of their ministry is to correct what they deem false doctrine in the Cessationist circles?

This would be rather interesting to see, but my hunch is most are not going to waste their time.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

I'm just curious, do we have Charismatic ministers that have on their website that the purpose of their ministry is to correct what they deem false doctrine in the Cessationist circles?

I wouldn't say that it is his entire ministry's purpose, but Michael Brown has published content addressing cessationists:

Dr. Brown Rebuts Cessationism

Cessationists Call-In Day

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I wouldn't say that it is his entire ministry's purpose, but Michael Brown has published content addressing cessationists:

Dr. Brown Rebuts Cessationism

Cessationists Call-In Day

Oddly, he doesn't have a statement of faith or anything that I could find after a cursory glance at his website, stating what his mission and goals are. Biography - AskDrBrown

The closest I found was at in his biography which talks about his degrees, accomplishments, published works and the fact that he has debated many and is, apparently, the foremost Messianic Jewish apologist.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Michael Brown also published the book Authentic Fire: A Response to John MacArthur's Strange Fire: https://www.amazon.com/Authentic-Fire-Response-MacArthurs-Strange/dp/1629984558

In response to Pastor John MacArthur’s call for a “collective war,” against charismatics, Dr. Michael Brown has called for unity in Jesus based on a return to the truth of the Scriptures in the fullness of the Spirit.

As a charismatic biblical scholar and theologian, Dr. Brown responds to Pastor MacArthur’s charges, making a biblical case for the continuation of the New Testament gifts of the Spirit and demonstrating the unique contribution to missions, theology, and worship made by the charismatic Church worldwide. He calls for an appreciation of the unique strengths and weaknesses of both cessationists and charismatics, inviting readers to experience God afresh, and he demonstrates how charismatic leaders have been addressing abuses within their own movement for decades.

Dr. Brown speaks on behalf of millions who are not adequately trained to express in writing their own encounters with the supernatural power of God. - David Ravenhill

I thank God for this biblically-robust, pastorally-sensitive, historicallyinformed, and graciously-articulated account of the work of the Holy Spirit in the church of Jesus Christ. - Sam Storms

Dr. Michael Brown’s Authentic Fire puts the brakes on John MacArthur’s crusade against charismatics with irrefutable logic, extraordinary insight, Christ-like graciousness, and an undisputable handling of Scripture. - Frank Viola

Michael Brown writes with clarity and courtesy as he confronts one of the most explosive issues among all those who uphold the Bible as the plumb line of truth. - David Shibley​

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Here a recent debate in the Unbelievable? Podcast:

Doug Wilson & Michael Brown: Are the gifts of the Spirit still in operation?

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Another video:

Michael Brown – Why I speak in tongues and John MacArthur doesn’t get charismatics

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Yeah, my issue isn't so much that one may choose to engage in debate. My issue is when one claims to be a minister for the gospel yet their whole ministry is only about debating and arguing over doctrines in Christianity that have absolutely 0 bearing on one's salvation. Such as Predestination vs. Freewill or Cessationism vs. Continuationism. Jesus said to go forth and make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He didn't say go forth, debating everyone over things that do not matter in the end.

There are multiple people who call themselves ministers who have websites similar to Peters whose first stated goal is to, basically, debate over things that have nothing to do with one's salvation, meaning that one can believe in predestination or freewill or be a cessationist or not, none of those things have any bearing on whether they hear "Well done my good and faithful servant." or not. The funny thing about all of this is that really, I've only ever noticed it from people who call themselves Reformed or Calvinists.

 

[ARBITER01]

Yeah, my issue isn't so much that one may choose to engage in debate. My issue is when one claims to be a minister for the gospel yet their whole ministry is only about debating and arguing over doctrines in Christianity that have absolutely 0 bearing on one's salvation. Such as Predestination vs. Freewill or Cessationism vs. Continuationism. Jesus said to go forth and make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He didn't say go forth, debating everyone over things that do not matter in the end.

There are multiple people who call themselves ministers who have websites similar to Peters whose first stated goal is to, basically, debate over things that have nothing to do with one's salvation, meaning that one can believe in predestination or freewill or be a cessationist or not, none of those things have any bearing on whether they hear "Well done my good and faithful servant." or not. The funny thing about all of this is that really, I've only ever noticed it from people who call themselves Reformed or Calvinists.

When people accept a lie in their walk with GOD they are prone to regurgitate it constantly to everyone, even seek justification for it. They will stay at that level until they acknowledge it and want to move on from it with GOD

 

[spiritfilledjm]

When people accept a lie in their walk with GOD they are prone to regurgitate it constantly to everyone, even seek justification for it. They will stay at that level until they acknowledge it and want to move on from it with GOD

Funnily enough, Reformed theologians like Sproul, James White, among others call this the "Cage Stage". Where one does everything they can to only talk about a new revelation they received and treat it like it's an actual important truth where, even if it was, they actually end up turning a lot of people away and doing more harm for their cause than good. They say it'd be better if they were just locked in a cage for a couple of years so they can digest it and learn.

 

[jiminpa]

He's trying to be a spectator in a war zone, yelling criticisms at the warriors. He should be ignored completely, or evangelized as the unbeliever that he is.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

He's trying to be a spectator in a war zone, yelling criticisms at the warriors. He should be ignored completely, or evangelized as the unbeliever that he is.

Just because he doesn't believe that the sign gifts are for today doesn't make him an unbeliever in Christ. There are way worse than him out there. Like those who are allegedly ministers who believe that you don't need to believe in Jesus to be saved, who preach that it is ok to live in sin because of grace and because God loves everyone and God wants everyone into heaven therefore love wins and God gets what He wants. Those are unbelievers, the real wolves in sheeps clothing and members of the synagogue of satan. Peters is just a guy so obsessed with secondary issues and doctrine, like calvinism and cessationism, that he allows it to make him forget what Jesus called him to do. Does that make him an unbeliever? No.

 

[jiminpa]

Just because he doesn't believe that the sign gifts are for today doesn't make him an unbeliever in Christ. There are way worse than him out there. Like those who are allegedly ministers who believe that you don't need to believe in Jesus to be saved, who preach that it is ok to live in sin because of grace and because God loves everyone and God wants everyone into heaven therefore love wins and God gets what He wants. Those are unbelievers, the real wolves in sheeps clothing and members of the synagogue of satan. Peters is just a guy so obsessed with secondary issues and doctrine, like calvinism and cessationism, that he allows it to make him forget what Jesus called him to do. Does that make him an unbeliever? No.

Sorry, but he works at discrediting the actions of the Holy Spirit. He is a professional gossip. He has no part in the Kingdom, unless he repents.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sure, but in general, to his general skepticism. The challenge is just one example. @Oscarr always brings up Justin Peters when he argues against current prophets.

Seeing that you are taking my name in vain...

All I am doing is to comment on the evidence that every Charismatic prophet has got things wrong in their predictions so far. The truth is that the Holy Spirit makes no mistakes, and God is not a liar. This means that a prophet who says that God has called him, and has given him the words to say, and the words don't came to pass, or are just meaningless word salads of popular Charismatic buzz words, then he is lying, and is not speaking from the Spirit of truth.

The problem is that Charismatics sweep this evidence under the carpet and carry on as if nothing has happened. No one seems to have the courage in Christ to stand up and say that the well known Charismatic prophets have a lying spirit instead of the Spirit of truth. I firmly believe in the gift of prophecy for today's church, and I continue to wait until true prophets arise to exhort, encourage, comfort and instruct the body of Christ with sound doctrine. But from what I see in the Youtube prophets, I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Do you believe there are genuine prophets today?

I do. But I haven't yet seen any in all the sites I have viewed on Youtube.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Ignore him. I now about him and what he believes and why. If one wanted to debate be one thing but on this subject he is by far no expert at all. Same with the gifts. He loves the lord praise God

"genuine prophets today" yes. You just wont find most of them on youtube If they miss they tell you upfront then seek pray to find out where why they got it wrong. Yet they are not mostly wrong but right. Remember OT they were not false because they always got it wrong. No no they were false because God never spoke to them. There is no prophet that never gets it wrong lol

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and never makes mistakes. So if a "prophet" gets it wrong, then he is not speaking by the Holy Spirit. So if he says "The Lord has given me this word" and he gets it wrong, then he is taking the Lord's name in vain, and bearing false witness. That is two important Commandments he is breaching. He is throwing himself under the bus big time.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It is a wicked and perverse generation that seeks a sign (or prophecy). This applies to people that demand "proof" of God's calling and work. I don't expect a cessationist to understand real prophets can't make God speak. I hope this exposed a lot of false prophets but the very existence of false prophets means there are real ones.

Quite so, but I haven't seen one yet.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I guess those with verified true prophecies should send the details to him. If he's sincere and sees evidence then he should amend what he's been saying.

"If I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.” (John 10:38)

The evidence of the miraculous works causes people to believe. God Bless

I am sure that if he receives a prophecy that accurately predicts the end of the Ukraine conflict, he will certainly acknowledge him as a true prophet.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If your first goal in ministry is anything other than seeing souls saved...then you're doing it wrong.

The problem is that the false prophets and those who say they have heard from God and then prophesy buzz word salads that say nothing but nonsense, are breaching two important Commandments (taking the Lord's name in vain, and giving false witness), and they are condemning themselves (unless they repent), and are deceiving others, setting them on the road to hell. So Justin Peter's, by calling out the false prophets, may be effectively saving souls from hell by turning them back to the truth in Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sorry, but he works at discrediting the actions of the Holy Spirit. He is a professional gossip. He has no part in the Kingdom, unless he repents.

What does he need to repent of? Being true to the Bible in his comparison between it and the false prophets who are saying they are hearing from God and then prophesying bovine scatology?

Are you going to accuse Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel of being professional gossips because they gave God's word about the false prophets of their day?

 

[tturt]

False prophets intentionally lead people away from God. (Matt 24:11, 24; II Pet 2:1). It's not when the word is in error - Deu 18:22

No believer serves God without error.

We're to:
"Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge." I Cor 14

""Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I Thess 5