Well from what you posted earlier in post # 226, I do not agree, but allow me to start showing why from the scriptures. However, If I ask you questions this time, I hope you can respect our discussion and hope you can answer my questions to you if you would like a two-way discussion.
COLOSSIANS 2:16-17
According to the scriptures the context of
Colossians 2:16-17 is to the meat and the drink offering, and the new moons and the sabbaths in the annual Feast days and not judging others in this regard which are shadows of things to come but but the body is of Christ. Paul is referring to a number of scriptures in the old testament (e.g.
Ezekiel 45:17). There were many different kinds of sabbaths (including rest days from work - holy convocations; plural application) in the old covenant especially connected directly to the annual Feast days. These annual ceremonial sabbaths connected directly to the annual Feast days could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. On the other hand Gods' 4th commandment is only linked to the "seventh day of the week as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth.
These annual Feast sabbaths (including holy convocations where no work was allowed) included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *
Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *
Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *
Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *
Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *
Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton
Colossians 2:16 *
Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36).
Colossians 2:16-17 is in reference to the meat and drink offerings the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) that were connected to these Feasts that are shadows of things to come. Not Gods' 10 commandments or Gods 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (
Romans 3:20;
Romans 7:7;
1 John 3:4;
James 2:10-11). Otherwise Paul would not say elsewhere, "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath" (
Hebrews 4:9).
Note: the reason I have included the days of holy convocation here from Leviticus 23 is because the Greek word σάββατον sábbaton G4521 used in Colossians 2:16 besides referring directly to the "seventh day Sabbath" also means "any day of weekly repose or rest from secular work" or a week with plural application to the above.
We can go in to a detailed scripture exegesis of Colossians 2:11-17 if you like linking old and new testament scriptures, to show what Paul is talking about from the old testament scriptures, but as an introduction here I will be arguing that it is
impossible for Gods' 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath to be a shadow of anything as it points
backwards to the f
inished work of creation,
not forwards to things to come. When the Sabbath was made for mankind in
Genesis 2:1-3 there was no sin, no plan of salvation because there was no sin and no Moses and no Mosaic shadow laws of things to come which was not given until after mankind had sinned according to the scriptures.
Colossians 2:16 is talking about the meat and drink offerings and the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days being a shadow of things to come. It is not talking about God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (
Romans 3:20;
Romans 7:7;
1 John 3:4) being a shadow of anything.
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Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible
“... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...” - Albert Barnes,
Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.
Adam Clarke, states on the same passage:
There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...” - Adam Clarke,
Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.
Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary states:
“... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10). ...” - Jamieson, Fausset and Brown,
Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.
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QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER
The questions I would ask you in this discussion to help determine if Gods' 4th commandment is a "shadow law" are simply these. If you can honestly answer these questions you will see that it is impossible for God's creation Sabbath of the 4th commandment to be a shadow law of anything....
I am sure we both agree that the "
shadow laws" for remission and the Mosaic "
shadow laws" of the old covenant (e.g. The Levitical Priesthood, the Sanctuary laws, the laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings; the annual Feast days, circumcision etc) were given as prophetic "shadow laws" as a part of God's plan of salvation for mankind from the wages of sin (death) pointing to the coming Messiah as the Savior of the world and Gods' true sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all *John 1:29; 36; Hebrews 10:10
after mankind fell into temptation and sin. With this in mind let me sincerely ask you these questions
Q1. The Sabbath was made
before the fall of mankind when mankind was sinless and in perfect harmony with God. How can God's Sabbath then be a "
shadow law" when there was no sin and all the
"shadow laws" were created because of sin pointing to Jesus and Gods 'plan of salvation for mankind from sin. If the Sabbath was created before sin and not after the fall when all the "shadow laws" were created how can Gods' Sabbath be a shadow of anything?
Q2. The Sabbath was written on stone by the finger of God as Gods' 4th commandment during the Exodus shown in *Exodus 20:8-11, which reads [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT. According to God's 4th commandment the Sabbath points BACKWARDS, not FORWARDS to things come, telling us to "Remember" the Sabbath as a memorial pointing backwards to when the Sabbath was made in Genesis 2:1-3. How then can the Sabbath of Gods' 4th commandment be a "shadow law" of things to come when it does
not point forward to thing to come but
BACKWARDS as a memorial to the
FINISHED work of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth?
I have some more questions proving it is impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a "shadow law" but I think we will stop here for now and not over to it.
Take Care.
