How one is saved.....

[Titus Dorn]

Actually I do have true saving faith in Christ and I do believe in His words. I just don't believe in your misinterpretation of scripture. You only believe your biased interpretation of God's word.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

My faith trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation sir. My faith trusts 100% in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation and not 50% in Christ and 50% in works. Your faith trusts in "water and works" for salvation and not 100% in Christ. It's obvious who lacks faith in Christ.

He that eateth and digesteth his food shall live; but he that eateth not shall die.

How Danthemailman interprets English grammar:

He that eateth and NOT digesteth his food shall live; but he that eateth not shall die.

You lack faith in Jesus and His word. You cherry pick parts of the gospel you like, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

And refuse to believe what Jesus says, Mark 16:15-16.

You want to be saved without obedience just belief. Your gospel has NO LOVE FOR GOD.

You mistakenly think faith alone includes trust. The scriptures prove you wrong.

Faith that trusts God according to scriptures believes in Jesus and His teaching, His word,
John 17:17 sanctify them through thy truth thy WORD is truth.

Your faith is only in your belief. Not in what Jesus' sacred word teach.

You lack faith in the word of God, Mark 16:15-16.

I believe in Jesus and every word that proceeds from His mouth.

Nowhere in Jesus' gospel is it taught that man has nothing to DO.

The very first gospel sermon preached by Peter taught that men must do something. Believe, repent and be baptized.

Repentance in the very first gospel sermon of Jesus' gospel has repentance after faith. Your sect has perverted the gospel of Christ by removing repentance, putting it before faith.

All in the effort to deceive others into believing that your gospel of faith without obedience has no works.

For you know repentance is a work man does.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

V33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit He hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

V36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

V37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart(only a response of belief in Peter's teaching that Jesus is their Messiah) and said unto Peter AND TO THE REST OF THE APOSTLES, MEN AND BRETHREN WHAT SHALL WE DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, ?

They have come to faith that they have crucified their own Messiah. They are BELIEVERS!

Listen to Peter tell them what they must do.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, REPENT and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We see in the true Biblical gospel that faith precedes repentance.

We also see another error of false teaching coming from the Baptist sect.

The baptist teach one is baptized by the Holy Spirit at the very instant one believes.

No so, in the true gospel of Jesus Christ!!!

They were already believers yet Peter told them they were not saved. They had not received Holy Spirit baptism.

And yes Peter did tell them there was something they must DO!

It was not until they performed the obedient work of repentance(man's work) and baptism( in baptism God does the work not man) ,

Did Peter teach as fact that they would have their sins forgiven,

And receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The true accounts of the gospel of Jesus Christ from scripture. Never fit with the false gospel the Baptist's teach.

When they asked Peter, men and brethren what shall we do?

The baptist religion will tell you, YOU DO NOTHING, Jesus saves you without your obedience to Him. Peter was not a Baptist preacher thank God.

Therefore sola fide is a gospel that requires no love for Jesus to be saved. For God says obedience is love.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous. ( obedient faith)

1John 5:1-3
Whoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God( obedient faith): and everyone that loveth Him that begat loveth Him also that is begotten of Him.

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments( obedient faith) only obedient faith is love for God. Never faith without obedience.

Proof that Biblical saving faith is an obedient faith,

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name.

Notice that Paul teaches in Romans that he received Gods grace for obedience to the faith, the gospel of Christ.

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandments of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Only an obedient faith does one have full assurance of eternal life,
2Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Faith alone is a gospel from men that will not submit to God and obey His gospel. It is a gospel without love for Jesus.

When will you put your trust in Jesus and how He tells you to be saved? Why not obey Jesus? Mark 16:15-16, Acts 22:16; Acts 8:37-38; Acts 9:17-18; Acts 10:48; Acts 16:15; Acts 16:31-33; Acts 19:1-6; Romans 6:1-6; Galatians 3:26-27; Colossians 2:12-13; 1Peter 3:20-21
.

 

[Danthemailman]

He that eateth and digesteth his food shall live; but he that eateth not shall die.

How Danthemailman interprets English grammar:

He that eateth and NOT digesteth his food shall live; but he that eateth not shall die.

You lack faith in Jesus and His word. You cherry pick parts of the gospel you like, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

And refuse to believe what Jesus says, Mark 16:15-16.

You want to be saved without obedience just belief. Your gospel has NO LOVE FOR GOD.

You mistakenly think faith alone includes trust. The scriptures prove you wrong.

Faith that trusts God according to scriptures believes in Jesus and His teaching, His word,
John 17:17 sanctify them through thy truth thy WORD is truth.

Your faith is only in your belief. Not in what Jesus' sacred word teach.

You lack faith in the word of God, Mark 16:15-16.

I believe in Jesus and every word that proceeds from His mouth.

Nowhere in Jesus' gospel is it taught that man has nothing to DO.

The very first gospel sermon preached by Peter taught that men must do something. Believe, repent and be baptized.

Repentance in the very first gospel sermon of Jesus' gospel has repentance after faith. Your sect has perverted the gospel of Christ by removing repentance, putting it before faith.

All in the effort to deceive others into believing that your gospel of faith without obedience has no works.

For you know repentance is a work man does.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

V33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit He hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

V36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

V37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart(only a response of belief in Peter's teaching that Jesus is their Messiah) and said unto Peter AND TO THE REST OF THE APOSTLES, MEN AND BRETHREN WHAT SHALL WE DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, ?

They have come to faith that they have crucified their own Messiah. They are BELIEVERS!

Listen to Peter tell them what they must do.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, REPENT and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We see in the true Biblical gospel that faith precedes repentance.

We also see another error of false teaching coming from the Baptist sect.

The baptist teach one is baptized by the Holy Spirit at the very instant one believes.

No so, in the true gospel of Jesus Christ!!!

They were already believers yet Peter told them they were not saved. They had not received Holy Spirit baptism.

And yes Peter did tell them there was something they must DO!

It was not until they performed the obedient work of repentance(man's work) and baptism( in baptism God does the work not man) ,

Did Peter teach as fact that they would have their sins forgiven,

And receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The true accounts of the gospel of Jesus Christ from scripture. Never fit with the false gospel the Baptist's teach.

When they asked Peter, men and brethren what shall we do?

The baptist religion will tell you, YOU DO NOTHING, Jesus saves you without your obedience to Him. Peter was not a Baptist preacher thank God.

Therefore sola fide is a gospel that requires no love for Jesus to be saved. For God says obedience is love.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous. ( obedient faith)

1John 5:1-3
Whoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God (obedient faith): and everyone that loveth Him that begat loveth Him also that is begotten of Him.

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments (obedient faith) only obedient faith is love for God. Never faith without obedience.

Proof that Biblical saving faith is an obedient faith,

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name.

Notice that Paul teaches in Romans that he received Gods grace for obedience to the faith, the gospel of Christ.

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandments of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Only an obedient faith does one have full assurance of eternal life,
2Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Faith alone is a gospel from men that will not submit to God and obey His gospel. It is a gospel without love for Jesus.

When will you put your trust in Jesus and how He tells you to be saved? Why not obey Jesus? Mark 16:15-16, Acts 22:16; Acts 8:37-38; Acts 9:17-18; Acts 10:48; Acts 16:15; Acts 16:31-33; Acts 19:1-6; Romans 6:1-6; Galatians 3:26-27; Colossians 2:12-13; 1Peter 3:20-21

A better analogy would be, "he who takes his medication and washes it down with water will be made well but he who does not take his medication will remain sick." Of course it logically follows that we wash down medication with water, yet if no water is available and we take it dry (been there, done that) we will still be made well BECAUSE OF THE MEDICATION (and not because of the water). It's the same with baptism. It logically follows that we get baptized after we believe, but if you are on your death bed and cannot get water baptized before your death, you are still saved because you BELIEVE which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b) ..but he who does not believe will be condemned and is also in harmony with (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26)

***NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."***

It's you who lacks faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) which is what it means to BELIEVE the gospel. You believe a "different" gospel of "water and works salvation." Your faith falls short of trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. The scriptures prove you wrong as you continue to distort and pervert passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" your "works based" false gospel. It's Christ's obedience that is the actual means of our salvation (Romans 5:19) and not your "imperfect" obedience. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) The act of obedience that is the instrumental means by which we receive salvation is choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 10:16; 1:16) We could never produce "enough" obedience/works after we have been saved through faith in order to merit salvation, but salvation in part by works sure seems to tickle your ears and feed your PRIDE. You are looking for credit.

Repentance actually "precedes" saving faith in Christ. Here is an article that explains the error of the church of Christ in regards to reversing the scriptural order of repentance and faith in obtaining salvation. - Faith and Repentance

Faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. By choosing to place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (and not in works) we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption to save us). Jesus Christ gets 100% credit for our salvation. Through faith, Christ is still the object of our belief/trust/reliance in receiving salvation. Repentance is also not just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. Through repentance, we change our mind and choose to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. *Two sides to the same coin. Those who have truly repented have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Not hard to understand. Just hard for you to ACCEPT.

In regards to your faith before repentance argument, in Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was merely "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and they were guilty of crucifying Him. That is not saving belief/faith yet. They still lacked trust and reliance in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and that's why they still needed to repent and place their faith in Christ alone for salvation. You don't even understand what it truly means to BELIEVE unto salvation. You are all wrapped up in works.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

*In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Once again, we see these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. *What happened to baptism in verse 31? *Water baptism FOLLOWS repent/believe/saved.

*So the only conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Obedience/works accompany faith as the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not as the essence of faith. You don't seem to make a distinction between faith and works. You simply wrap up both faith and works in a package and simply stamp faith on the package, just as all works-salvationists do. Now I never said that faith does not produce obedience/works, yet don't get the cart before the horse. We are saved through faith, not works.

Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture and the end result is (you guessed it) salvation by works.

In regards to keeping His commandments, in 1 John 2:3-4, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, watch over, keep intact) His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. I already explained Hebrews 5:8-9 to you in post #113.

In regards to Romans 1:5; 16:26, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

In regards to 2 Thessalonians 1:8, we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” When will you BELIEVE?

In regards to 1 Peter 4:17, the chastening and purifying of the Church by a loving heavenly Father is a much more tolerable judgment than the eternal sufferings in the lake of fire for the ungodly unbeliever who refuses to obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.

Man is saved through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone saves. The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; Hebrews 10:39; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stands alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

The Bible makes clear that men are saved prior to receiving water baptism. These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized (Acts 10:44-47). Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles. It was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but believing in Christ. (Acts 10:43)

Baptism is the expected initial outward response to the gospel, but it is not a part of the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4). There are a handful of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts only prove that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

 

[Titus Dorn]

better analogy would be, "he who takes his medication and washes it down with water will be made well but he who does not take his medication will remain sick." Of course it logically follows that we wash down medication with water, yet if no water is available and we take it dry

Why don't you just write your own commentary on how you think Mark 16: 15-16 should be interpreted.

You sure don't allow Gods word to interpret itself.

Your analogy is terrible.

Jesus says belief and baptism shall be saved.

Your using water as unnecessary to be well. In your analogy that's true.

But that is not what Jesus said.

He said, he that believeth AND is baptized SHALL be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned.

Baptism is part of belief in Jesus. That is why both are required for salvation
.
You do not believe what Jesus is telling you. Keep believing baptism is not what Jesus says saves you, and you will continue to call Jesus a liar,

1 John 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made Him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son.

John 5:24
Verily , verily, I say unto you, He that HEARETH MY WORD AND BELIEVETH ON HIM THAT SENT ME, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life .

Jesus put belief and baptism together in order to be saved. You have separated what God joined together.

Mark 10:9
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

I'll answer the rest of the mess you have made with the gospel..But for now I want to deal only with repentance.

Tell me what the Jews in Acts 2:38 were to repent of? What do you believe repentance is?

 

[Danthemailman]

Why don't you just write your own commentary on how you think Mark 16: 15-16 should be interpreted.

You sure don't allow Gods word to interpret itself.

Your analogy is terrible.

Jesus says belief and baptism shall be saved.

Your using water as unnecessary to be well. In your analogy that's true.

But that is not what Jesus said.

He said, he that believeth AND is baptized SHALL be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned.

Baptism is part of belief in Jesus. That is why both are required for salvation
.
You do not believe what Jesus is telling you. Keep believing baptism is not what Jesus says saves you, and you will continue to call Jesus a liar,

1 John 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made Him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son.

John 5:24
Verily , verily, I say unto you, He that HEARETH MY WORD AND BELIEVETH ON HIM THAT SENT ME, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life .

Jesus put belief and baptism together in order to be saved. You have separated what God joined together.

Mark 10:9
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

I'll answer the rest of the mess you have made with the gospel..But for now I want to deal only with repentance.

Tell me what the Jews in Acts 2:38 were to repent of? What do you believe repentance is?

I already explained what the Jews in Acts 2:38 were to repent of and what repentance is. You will also find the answers to your questions in this article below:

Faith and Repentance

I could continue to explain the truth to you until I'm blue in the face, but the truth will just continue to go right over your head and there is a reason for that. Since you stubbornly refuse to repent and believe the gospel/trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) after hearing the truth numerous times, it's obvious that I'm just wasting my time with you and I think it's time for me to shake the dust off my shoes and move on. I'm tired of your straw man arguments, your disregard for the gospel and your stubborn UNBELIEF.

 

[Titus Dorn]

I have such great faith that only Jesus can save me, that I believe in Him as God. I believe in His death, burial and ressurection from the dead. And I have complete trust in what He tells me I must do (Word) to be saved. This is not the case with you.

Repentance actually "precedes" saving faith in Christ. Here is an article that explains the error of the church of Christ in regards to reversing the scriptural order of repentance and faith in obtaining salvation. - Faith and Repentance

Your sect has so many illogical doctrines that it amazes me you believe them.

Do you not see that repentance preceding faith is a psychological impossibility?

One cannot repent(I will explain what repentance means) before he believes in Jesus Christ, His Father and the Holy Spirit ie God.

Proof:

Danthemailman, go teach an atheist to repent before he believes in God. Do you see the silliness of your Baptist sects perversion of the gospel?

Do you not realize the only reason faith alone denominations have to change the order of repentance in Jesus' gospel is to make sense of their nonsensical salvation with no obedience to God? They must get obedient works out of the gospel for it to be faith alone.

The Biblical definition of repentance is: A change of mind, produced by Godly sorrow. This Godly sorrow results in a reformation of ones life, 2Corinthians 7:10
For Godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Examples of a changed life from repentance:

Acts 26:20
But declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea and then to the gentiles that they should repent, turn to God and do works befitting repentance.

Revelation 9:21
And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Do you see repentance is turning, from sin to God? This change of ones mind and actions is produced from Godly sorrow because of a new found love for Jesus.

1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

In 1John we have Christians being told to confess our sins. This is repentance of those sins. God will not cleanse us from our sins if we continue in them.

An example of untrue repentance would be: "God I know I am a thief, please forgive me of this sin of stealing.

But this man has no change of life. He continues to go on stealing. And prays, confesses his sins of stealing. But has no intention of changing or no longer practicing this sin. That is not true repentance.

Matthew 21:28-29
But what do you think? A man had two sons and he came to the first and said, Son, go work today in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not, but afterward he regretted it and went.

Then he came to the second son and said likewise, And he answered and said, i go sir, but he did not go.

V31
Which of the two did the will of the Father?

Jesus teaches us that repentance is a change of mind that resulted from fatherly sorrow that then produces a change in our living. This is Biblical repentance. We stop sinning against God and turn to him in faithfulness.

2Chronicles 7:14
If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and forgive their SIN and heal their land.

Repentance is a change of mind produced by Godly sorrow. We repent or turn away from practicing sin and turn toward God. We stop willful sin and live godly lives.

Another logical error in your faith alone salvation is repentance being required. I still cannot understand how you do not see these illogical errors in your supposed gospel?

Actually if salvation is by faith ONLY as you and other denominations still affirm. It matters not whether repentance comes before or after faith, for salvation by faith alone means that one is saved without any thing else.

Regardless of the order of faith and repentance; the doctrine of Faith Alone excludes repentance. Whether it comes before or after does not alter the case.

Salvation by faith only still excludes repentance.

No one needs repentance in order to be saved. According to you and the sectarian protestant churches one can only be saved by faith alone. Plus nothing else.

You have contradicted your own doctrine once again.

Through repentance, we change our mind and choose to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. *Two sides to the same coin.

Again if salvation comes by faith only. Then you just went against your own doctrine by saying we need to repent first then have faith only.

If salvation is truly by faith alone then we do not need to repent. You have added repentance to faith alone. You have made a logical contradiction.

Through repentance, we change our mind and choose to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. *Two sides to the same coin. Those who have truly repented have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Not hard to understand. Just hard for you to ACCEPT.

I understand perfectly well enough what Biblical repentance is Sir. You are struggling to understand repentance. It is not because you lack intelligence but honesty in seeking truth. Give up your preconceived beliefs of how the baptist sect misinterprets and perverts Gods word. And you will be able to understand Gods revelation to you. This is all that is holding you back from understanding the truth. The baptist false doctrines that have corrupted your minds ability to understand repentance and simple verses like Mark 16:15-16. And you honestly seeking to follow only the truth. Wherever that may lead you.

You know one of the main reasons folks cannot give up doctrines that are not Biblical?

Their love for family members that have passed on, that have died in these doctrines.

You know what loved ones who have passed on would tell their family who are still living?

Out of love they would say, Son, follow Jesus. I love you to much for you to make the same errors I made. Go to Jesus son. And believe and obey Him and His teaching only.

Remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

The rich man loved his family enough that he desired to go back among the living only to tell his five brothers not to make the same mistakes he made.

You want to bring more sorrow on your family whom loves you by not following the the truth?

Jesus promises us that all who desire to know the truth will find it,

Jeremiah 29:13
And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Sir I already answered this and you know it.

Acts 3:19, repentance does not precede faith. Peter is speaking to BELIEVERS here in chapter 3.They already know who Jesus is. Faith precedes repentance in this verse.

This verse is a hindrance to your position and a virtue to mine.

Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord

Did you not catch what Peter said? Repent therefore and be converted.

What does that prove and disprove about Sola Fide?

First it proves that Peter teaches you cannot be saved if you do not repent.

Second it proves you cannot be saved by faith without repentance.

Again you do not seem to see the logical contradictions in your gospel.

It is a psychological impossibility to be saved by faith only.

Because that would eliminate repentance as essential.

Sir, you are smarter than this. I know this is not a matter of intelligence but of indoctrination and honestly seeking after the truth.

 

[klutedavid]

This cannot be what James is teaching. In order for your interpretation to be true, now listen closely to what I am explaining to you Sir. Your sect ASSUMES JAMES BELIEVES FAITH ALONE IS SALVATION. Is that what James says in chapter 2? No, how could you miss what James taught? You are putting words in James' mouth with starting with a false premise. James never ever said once in all of his writings that salvation without obedience is his position.

Look it is simple to show James is not teaching what you claim he is teaching.

You claim James has already given his position that faith without works saves.

You claim James' whole point about works with belief is to prove that one has a genuine true saving faith by the evidence of good works.

This is simply not what James is teaching as I have already proven. Verse 14 proves what James is really saying about faith with no works.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith(only) and have not works ? CAN FAITH(WITHOUT WORKS) SAVE HIM.

You see how James does not teach that faith alone saves in chapter 2? James is asking the question if faith alone without works can save not that faith alone saves and works are the evidence of genuine faith.

Now that we have established what James' teaching is really about: CAN FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS SAVE. Not your misinterpretation of FAITH ALONE SAVES AND WORKS IS THE EVIDENCE OF A GENUINE FAITH. Are you going to continue to ignore James question in verse 14? It is not a given that faith without works saves!!!! James never said that, SO WHY ARE YOU SAYING SOMETHING JAMES DID NOT SAY?

Now for your second claim: James is not using justification to be accounted as righteous but SHOWN TO BE ALREADY RIGHTEOUS. Wrong, James taught the very opposite of what your claiming he taught here in chapter 2.

Look, this is an illogical conclusion you have come too.

How could it be possible that Abraham was already righteous before obeying Gods commands? Think about that Danthemailman. Give me an answer!!!

How could Abraham be accounted as righteous before he obeyed God and did the commands God gave him?

Your position is, I'm sorry Sir, but silly. You think Abraham was a righteous man WITHOUT OBEYING GOD!!! Are you serious?

OK, here is Abraham before obedience. God tells Abraham to go and offer his son Isaac on the altar. Your position, Abraham was already righteous, he did not have to sacrifice his son for God to count him as righteous.

So according to your faith and no obedience doctrine. Abraham would have been accounted righteous if HE DID NOT OBEY GODS COMMANDS! Do you not realize that is your position?

But you say O, no because Abraham's faith was proven to be genuine by his works. If he had not done the works God commanded him that would prove he did not have a genuine saving faith. Therefore he would not of been accounted as righteous by God.

To say this is to contradict your own position you use in James 2.

Look, Abraham COULD NOT OF BEEN RIGHTEOUS WITHOUT HIS WORKS!!!! His works is why God accounts him as righteous not before. You cannot have a genuine faith if you do not prove it with obedience to God!

This is what James is teaching. Abraham was justified when he proved his faith was genuine by obedience!

No one has an obedient genuine faith before they choose to obey God.

You have Abraham being righteous before he is obedient to God.

Let's say you gave your children laws to follow.

Now your children believe the laws you have given must be obeyed.

Now when are they righteous?

Before they prove themselves to have a genuine faith by obeying your laws.

Or when they act upon their faith by obeying your laws?

You teach before obedience they are already righteous!!!

Your position is not logical Sir. Gods word never teaches what you teach! Heres proof,

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Now, you interpret this verse as God saying Abraham is righteous before obedience. That is not what this verse is teaching.

Did you not listen to James on this subject in Genesis 15:6? James is the one who explains how Abraham is righteous.

God knows everything man will do in the future. God already knows Abrahams heart in Genesis 15:6. God already knows Abraham IS OBEDIENT.

Genesis 22: is the fulfilling of Genesis 15:6. God accounts righteousness to Abraham in Genesis 15:6 not because of faith with no obedient works but because God knows he already has an obedient faith!!! That is the only kind of faith that can save! Biblical saving faith is an obedient faith, never faith without obedient works ie belief alone.

Listen to James teach exactly what I just taught,

James 2:21;22;23
Was not Abraham our father justified BY works, when he offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, and By works was faith made perfect?

AND THE SCRIPTURE WAS FULFILLED...... ( James is teaching about Genesis 15:6 being fulfilled. Now how was it fulfilled that Abraham was accounted as righteous? James teaches It was fulfilled by Abraham when he OBYED GOD AND DID WORKS IN GENESIS CHAPTER 22. WHEN HE OBEYED GOD BY SACRIFICING HIS SON ISAAC ON THE ALTAR. This is the faith James teaches counts us righteous, justified saved!
A faith that has works of obedience.)

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God.
Now James is going to try and help you understand as clearly as he possibly can in the very next verse, what kind of faith makes Abraham and us justified, righteous, saved.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith only(faith without obedience).

James taught the opposite of what your sect teaches he taught. James taught Abraham was not righteous because of faith only and no obedience.

But because Abraham was accounted righteous by God in Genesis 15:6. Because Abraham had an OBEDIENT FAITH! And this is the only faith according to James that can save us,

James 2:14 What doth it profit my brethren, though a man say he hath faith and have not works? Can faith(without obedience ) save him?

James 2:24 ye see then how that BY works(obedience) a man is JUSTIFIED AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

No one will display their works before Almighty God, as if their works somehow justify themselves before God.

Here are some folk who thought their works were up to scratch. And I must say that their works rivalled the works of the apostles.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Good works only perfect one's faith.

We have been created for good works.

Works follow on after the first cause which is that faith in Jesus Christ. These good works will not justify or sanctify anyone, that justification and sanctification belongs to Christ alone.

Salvation is a free gift given to those that believe.

Perfect righteousness is a free gift given to those that believe.

 

[Titus Dorn]

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

No one will display their works before Almighty God, as if their works somehow justify themselves before God.

Here are some folk who thought their works were up to scratch. And I must say that their works rivalled the works of the apostles.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Good works only perfect one's faith.

We have been created for good works.

Works follow on after the first cause which is that faith in Jesus Christ. These good works will not justify or sanctify anyone, that justification and sanctification belongs to Christ alone.

Salvation is a free gift given to those that believe.

Perfect righteousness is a free gift given to those that believe.

Hello Sir, good to hear from you again.

I would love to discuss what saves us with you.

You used James 2:22 faith being perfected by works.

James taught here that faith without works is imperfect.

This word perfect also means complete.

So James taught faith alone is an imperfect, incomplete, dead, faith.

An imperfect, incomplete faith cannot save,

James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works and by works was faith made perfect(complete)?

These works are works of God, because we obey Gods commandments. Therefore James is teaching we are saved by doing the works of God by faith and obedience,

John 6:28-29
Then they said unto Him, What may we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

These works that James says makes faith perfect, complete is an obedient faith. Just as obedience made Christ perfect, complete,

Hebrews 5:8-9
Thou He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; And being made PERFECT He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY Him.

James teaches only an obedient faith can we be saved and not by a faith that has no obedience to Jesus.

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works(obedience) a man is justified and not by faith only(belief with no obedience to Gods commands).

James teaches us we must DO these acts of obedience for our faith to be perfect, complete, alive.

James uses the Greek word for only(monos) in James 2:24 also in James 1:22

James 1:22
But be ye DOERS of the word and not hearers ONLY(monos) , deceiving your own selves.

 

[Danthemailman]

I have such great faith that only Jesus can save me, that I believe in Him as God. I believe in His death, burial and ressurection from the dead.

I see that someone else joined in the conversation, so I will continue this discussion.

Your faith is not in Christ alone for salvation (but is also in works) so it's not such great faith that only Jesus can save you after all, which explains why you turn to supplements/works for salvation. The demons also believe that Jesus is God and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" and they don't have such great faith that Jesus can save them either. The huge difference between you and I is that I trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation and you don't. You also trust in works. My faith is 100% in Christ for salvation.

And I have complete trust in what He tells me I must do (Word) to be saved. This is not the case with you.

No, you have complete trust in your 'misinterpretation' of what you think Jesus tells you that you must do to be saved. Jesus never said whoever is not water baptized will not be saved, but that's what you teach, along with other erroneous interpretations of scripture that culminate in salvation by works.

Your sect has so many illogical doctrines that it amazes me you believe them.

Oh the irony.

Do you not see that repentance preceding faith is a psychological impossibility?

A change of mind always precedes faith. We must first repent (change our mind) before we can place our faith in Christ for salvation. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order. In Mark 1:15, Jesus said ..repent and believe in the gospel. *Notice the order. In Matthew 21:32, Jesus said - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent (change your mind) and believe him. So we see that repent (change of mind) preceded believing in the way of righteousness/believing the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. So much for your psychological impossibility.

One cannot repent (I will explain what repentance means) before he believes in Jesus Christ, His Father and the Holy Spirit ie God.

Your explanations are flawed.

Proof:

Danthemailman, go teach an atheist to repent before he believes in God. Do you see the silliness of your Baptist sects perversion of the gospel?

You keep attacking Baptists and I don't attend a Baptist church, so it's not just Baptists who see through your perversion of the gospel. An atheist would first need to repent (change their mind) and believe in God before they could further change their mind and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. So much for your proof.

Do you not realize the only reason faith alone denominations have to change the order of repentance in Jesus' gospel is to make sense of their nonsensical salvation with no obedience to God?

Only those who teach salvation through faith in Christ alone for salvation understand that repentance precedes saving faith in Christ and truly believe the gospel. Works-salvationists do not understand and do not believe the gospel. Paul explains why people don't believe the gospel in 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

They must get obedient works out of the gospel for it to be faith alone.

Obedient works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it and they "follow" having believed the gospel and obtained salvation. Obedient works are produced "out of" faith but are not the essence of faith. You continue to put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by works.

The Biblical definition of repentance is: A change of mind, produced by Godly sorrow. This Godly sorrow results in a reformation of ones life, 2 Corinthians 7:10
For Godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

A change of mind, produced by Godly sorrow is correct and the reformation of one's life is the fruit of repentance, but not the essence of repentance.

Examples of a changed life from repentance:

Acts 26:20
But declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea and then to the gentiles that they should repent, turn to God and do works befitting repentance.

Revelation 9:21
And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Do you see repentance is turning, from sin to God? This change of ones mind and actions is produced from Godly sorrow because of a new found love for Jesus.

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin of receiving Christ.

Certain people simply define "repentance" as "turning from sin," yet believers are not sinless 100% of the time. That is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" basically means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. "This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) and not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning and it is unlikely that anyone would ever be saved if that were the case, since we don't know anyone who has ever completely stopped sinning. (1 John 1:8-10)

1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

In 1John we have Christians being told to confess our sins. This is repentance of those sins. God will not cleanse us from our sins if we continue in them.

Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that Christians "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness. Pseudo Christians say they have no sin and/or they have not sinned and are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness.

An example of untrue repentance would be: "God I know I am a thief, please forgive me of this sin of stealing.

But this man has no change of life. He continues to go on stealing. And prays, confesses his sins of stealing. But has no intention of changing or no longer practicing this sin. That is not true repentance.

Such a person obviously has not repented about being a thief, yet those who have repented and placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation demonstrate they truly repented because they continue to trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. The fruit of that repentance would be a changed life of practicing righteousness and not sin, but this does not mean the Christian who truly repented will become sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time from that point on.

Matthew 21:28-29
But what do you think? A man had two sons and he came to the first and said, Son, go work today in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not, but afterward he regretted it and went.

Then he came to the second son and said likewise, And he answered and said, i go sir, but he did not go.

V31
Which of the two did the will of the Father?

Jesus teaches us that repentance is a change of mind that resulted from fatherly sorrow that then produces a change in our living. This is Biblical repentance. We stop sinning against God and turn to him in faithfulness.

Repentance (change of mind) that resulted from Godly sorrow and the fruit of repentance is a change in our living. Works-salvationists typically confuse the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance and the end result is salvation by works.

2Chronicles 7:14
If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and forgive their SIN and heal their land.

Repentance is a change of mind produced by Godly sorrow. We repent or turn away from practicing sin and turn toward God. We stop willful sin and live godly lives.

We see that in 1 John 3:7-10. I do not teach that those who are born of God continue to practice sin and do not practice righteousness.

Continued..

 

[Danthemailman]

Another logical error in your faith alone salvation
is repentance being required. I still cannot understand how you do not see these illogical errors in your supposed gospel?

Your continued straw man argument here is getting old. Salvation through faith in Christ alone means that the moment we place our faith in Christ alone for salvation "apart from works" we are saved. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Such a person has already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Faith in Christ alone for salvation does not mean repentance never happened and if repentance does not happen, then we will not place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Actually if salvation is by faith ONLY as you and other denominations still affirm. It matters not whether repentance comes before or after faith, for salvation by faith alone means that one is saved without any thing else.

You still don't get it. We need to repent (change our mind) first before we can place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in order to be saved, so it's not without repentance. You still cannot seem to grasp what a believer means by salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. I don't teach "faith only per James" - empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works. That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. I have explained that to you numerous times, but I might as well be trying to explain algebra to my dog.

Regardless of the order of faith and repentance; the doctrine of Faith Alone excludes repentance. Whether it comes before or after does not alter the case.

Salvation through faith in Christ alone does not exclude repentance. You still remain confused about what believers mean by salvation through faith in Christ alone. I could explain it to you until I'm blue in the face and you still won't get it and there is a reason for that.

Salvation by faith only still excludes repentance.

An empty profession of faith/dead faith excludes repentance, but not authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

No one needs repentance in order to be saved. According to you and the sectarian protestant churches one can only be saved by faith alone. Plus nothing else.

Your straw man argument has graduated to blatant slander. Believers teach that one must repent in order to be saved. Repent (change of mind) -- new direction of that change of mind -- (faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation). We are saved the moment that we place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in Jesus Christ + works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith in works renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior and salvation void.

You have contradicted your own doctrine once again.

You have misunderstood my doctrine and slandered me once again. It's a shame that you are so determined to win your argument at all costs on your little ego trip that you feel the need to resort to slander. Your dishonesty is very telling.

Again if salvation comes by faith only. Then you just went against your own doctrine by saying we need to repent first then have faith only.

For the umpteenth time, I don't teach "faith only" per James - empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14) I teach salvation through faith in Christ alone and not salvation by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented. Let me know when this finally sinks in.

If salvation is truly by faith alone then we do not need to repent. You have added repentance to faith alone. You have made a logical contradiction.

Salvation by faith in Christ alone does not mean that we do not need to repent. We cannot place our faith in Christ alone for salvation until after we first repent (change our mind) because guess what, prior to repenting we have not yet placed our faith in Christ alone for salvation. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? A child can understand this.

I understand perfectly well enough what Biblical repentance is Sir. You are struggling to understand repentance. It is not because you lack intelligence but honesty in seeking truth. Give up your preconceived beliefs of how the baptist sect misinterprets and perverts Gods word. And you will be able to understand Gods revelation to you. This is all that is holding you back from understanding the truth.

Oh the irony!

The baptist false doctrines that have corrupted your minds ability to understand repentance and simple verses like Mark 16:15-16. And you honestly seeking to follow only the truth. Wherever that may lead you.

You really like to attack baptists. I understand repentance and I also understand that the second clause of Mark 16:16 clarifies the first clause...but he who does not believe will be condemned. Jesus also clarifies that those who believe in Him "apart from additions or modifications" will be saved. (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) It's your church of Christ indoctrination that keeps you from accepting the truth.

You know one of the main reasons folks cannot give up doctrines that are not Biblical?....

Now you are just rambling. Why don't you try shortening your responses and try focusing on one point at a time.

Acts 3:19, repentance does not precede faith. Peter is speaking to BELIEVERS here in chapter 3.They already know who Jesus is. Faith precedes repentance in this verse.

This verse is a hindrance to your position and a virtue to mine.

Absolutely false. Acts 3:11 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

Just as in Acts 2:37-38, these are not believers until after they repent (change their mind) and place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. You have a shallow definition of believer.

Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord

Did you not catch what Peter said? Repent therefore and be converted.

What does that prove and disprove about Sola Fide?

I certainly did catch it and it does not disprove Sola Fide. Acts 11:17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Did you catch that?

First it proves that Peter teaches you cannot be saved if you do not repent.

I already know that. We cannot be saved unless we repent (change our mind) and place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Second it proves you cannot be saved by faith without repentance.

Faith without repentance is an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

Again you do not seem to see the logical contradictions in your gospel.

There are no contradictions in my gospel and your logic is flawed in regards to repentance and faith.

It is a psychological impossibility to be saved by faith only.

By faith that only professes to be genuine, but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead (James 2:14) which is not the kind of faith that I am talking about saves. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!

Because that would eliminate repentance as essential.

Salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone does not eliminate repentance. When are you finally going to get that through your head?

Sir, you are smarter than this. I know this is not a matter of intelligence but of indoctrination and honestly seeking after the truth.

Look in the mirror.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Sir, good to hear from you again.

Glad to be here.

I would love to discuss what saves us with you.

You used James 2:22 faith being perfected by works.

James taught here that faith without works is imperfect.

This word perfect also means complete.

So James taught faith alone is an imperfect, incomplete, dead, faith.

An imperfect, incomplete faith cannot save,

James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works and by works was faith made perfect(complete)?

These works are works of God, because we obey Gods commandments.

Which set of commandments are you referring to?

Therefore James is teaching we are saved by doing the works of God by faith and obedience,

John 6:28-29
Then they said unto Him, What may we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

Believing in Jesus is faith.

These works that James says makes faith perfect, complete is an obedient faith. Just as obedience made Christ perfect, complete,

Hebrews 5:8-9
Thou He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; And being made PERFECT He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY Him.

Regardless of any level of obedience, the primary criteria for salvation remains the same. One must believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Whether you have one good work, two good works, or perhaps even three good works. The underlying reason for your salvation is the same in every case.

James teaches only an obedient faith can we be saved and not by a faith that has no obedience to Jesus.

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works(obedience) a man is justified and not by faith only(belief with no obedience to Gods commands).

Why do I get the impression that we are not on the same page here?

The thief on the cross had no works yet he was saved.

I see the word 'works' mentioned nine times in that letter written by James. And you see 'commands' in that letter, what's happening Titus Dorn?

 

[Titus Dorn]

Glad to be here.Which set of commandments are you referring to?Believing in Jesus is faith.Regardless of any level of obedience, the primary criteria for salvation remains the same. One must believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Whether you have one good work, two good works, or perhaps even three good works. The underlying reason for your salvation is the same in every case.Why do I get the impression that we are not on the same page here?

The thief on the cross had no works yet he was saved.

I see the word 'works' mentioned nine times in that letter written by James. And you see 'commands' in that letter, what's happening Titus Dorn?

Your continued straw man argument here is getting old. Salvation through faith in Christ alone means that the moment we place our faith in Christ alone for salvation "apart from works" we are saved. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Such a person has already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Faith in Christ alone for salvation does not mean repentance never happened and if repentance does not happen, then we will not place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

You still don't get it. We need to repent (change our mind) first before we can place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in order to be saved, so it's not without repentance. You still cannot seem to grasp what a believer means by salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. I don't teach "faith only per James" - empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works. That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. I have explained that to you numerous times, but I might as well be trying to explain algebra to my dog.

Salvation through faith in Christ alone does not exclude repentance. You still remain confused about what believers mean by salvation through faith in Christ alone. I could explain it to you until I'm blue in the face and you still won't get it and there is a reason for that.

An empty profession of faith/dead faith excludes repentance, but not authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Your straw man argument has graduated to blatant slander. Believers teach that one must repent in order to be saved. Repent (change of mind) -- new direction of that change of mind -- (faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation). We are saved the moment that we place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in Jesus Christ + works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith in works renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior and salvation void.

You have misunderstood my doctrine and slandered me once again. It's a shame that you are so determined to win your argument at all costs on your little ego trip that you feel the need to resort to slander. Your dishonesty is very telling.

For the umpteenth time, I don't teach "faith only" per James - empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14) I teach salvation through faith in Christ alone and not salvation by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented. Let me know when this finally sinks in.

Salvation by faith in Christ alone does not mean that we do not need to repent. We cannot place our faith in Christ alone for salvation until after we first repent (change our mind) because guess what, prior to repenting we have not yet placed our faith in Christ alone for salvation. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? A child can understand this.

Oh the irony!

You really like to attack baptists. I understand repentance and I also understand that the second clause of Mark 16:16 clarifies the first clause...but he who does not believe will be condemned. Jesus also clarifies that those who believe in Him "apart from additions or modifications" will be saved. (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) It's your church of Christ indoctrination that keeps you from accepting the truth.

Now you are just rambling. Why don't you try shortening your responses and try focusing on one point at a time.

Absolutely false. Acts 3:11 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

Just as in Acts 2:37-38, these are not believers until after they repent (change their mind) and place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. You have a shallow definition of believer.

I certainly did catch it and it does not disprove Sola Fide. Acts 11:17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Did you catch that?

I already know that. We cannot be saved unless we repent (change our mind) and place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Faith without repentance is an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

There are no contradictions in my gospel and your logic is flawed in regards to repentance and faith.

By faith that only professes to be genuine, but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead (James 2:14) which is not the kind of faith that I am talking about saves. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!

Salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone does not eliminate repentance. When are you finally going to get that through your head?

Look in the mirror.

Your position is irrational Danthemailman.

Faith alone:

Or

Repentance and faith alone

Your not making logical sense.

If it truly is Faith alone then repentance is not essential.

If faith alone saves then this also excludes Grace.

If faith alone saves then confession unto salvation, Romans 10:9-10 is excluded.

If faith alone then God does not require us to obey Him.

Gods word teaches obedience to God is love,
1John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

If faith alone then Love for Jesus[obedience) is excluded.

Paul teaches that man most certainly does play a part in his salvation. But it is not meritorious.

Even your false gospel has man playing his part in salvation. Just as Paul taught in Epheasians 2:8-9

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul affirms that there are two parts in salvation.

Gods part: Grace

Mans part: Faith

For anyone to say man has nothing to do, to be saved but then says He must believe.

Has made a logical contradiction.

Gods grace cannot save anyone without man playing his part in salvation.

Man must have faith to receive Gods grace.

But this faith that Paul teaches is not mental assent.

But an active living complete faith.

What kind of Biblical saving faith does Paul and James teach that has the power to save?

An obedient faith.

There is no trust in faith without obedience.

Jesus tells us what we must do in His gospel. If we dont believe we must do these commands, then we lack faith, trust, reliance on Him as the only one who knows how to save us.

Paul taught that saving faith was a faith that had obedient works, just as James taught.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

In Galatians 5:6 Paul shows that it is "faith working through love" that avails.

Faith must exist before it can work and it must work through love before it can avail anything.

Those who believe that faith only will save a sinner are forced to the conclusion that faith avails salvation before it works through love, Again they flatley contradict the Bible.

Paul himself said it was his obedient faith that saved him,

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name

Paul and James both teach that Biblical saving faith is never a faith without obedience. But a faith that believes God then takes action on that faith by obeying His gospel,

1Corinthians 15:1-4 and

Mark 16:15-16
And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be danmed.

I already explained that the thief on the cross was saved under the old covenant of the law of Moses.

Why have you not understood this fact.

I already proved to you he could not of been saved by Jesus' new testament gospel if he wanted too.

Jesus' gospel is the death, burial and ressurection,
1Corinthians 15:1-4
Moreover brethren I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that He was buried and that He arose again the third day according to the scriptures.

It was an impossibility that the thief could have believed in the death burial and ressurection of Christ.

For Christ had not been buried and risen from the dead.

The thief was not under the new covenant, the new will and testament of Jesus Christ.

Jesus saved the man when He was still living. Not when He was dead!

Christ's new covenant did not come into effect until after He died.

No will and testament is in force while the testator lives.

Only after He's dead does the new testament come into effect.

Hebrews 9:16-17
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Jesus Christ gospel is more than belief in His death, burial and ressurection,

Mark 16:15-16
And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be danmed.

And there is still more to Jesus' gospel unto salvation.

Confession, Romans 10:9-10; Acts 8:37-38

Repentance, Acts 2:38; 17:30

Belief, Romans 10:17

 

[Titus Dorn]

Glad to be here.Which set of commandments are you referring to?Believing in Jesus is faith.Regardless of any level of obedience, the primary criteria for salvation remains the same. One must believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Whether you have one good work, two good works, or perhaps even three good works. The underlying reason for your salvation is the same in every case.Why do I get the impression that we are not on the same page here?

The thief on the cross had no works yet he was saved.

I see the word 'works' mentioned nine times in that letter written by James. And you see 'commands' in that letter, what's happening Titus Dorn?

I'm sorry Sir, I forgot you brought up the thief on the cross not Danthemailman. I've already covered this subject with Danthemailman. Sorry for saying I already explained this to you. My mistake.

Works and obedience in Jesus' gospel for salvation are the same. That's what James is teaching.

Faith alone ie a dead incomplete, imperfect faith because there is no works, obedience

Vs

Faith that obeys Gods commands. This is saving faith and the faith a Christian must have throughout his walk with God in this life and the next.

Here is an example of commands being obedience when we obey them.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

When one obeys these commands in Jesus' gospel, that is the obedient faith that the writer of Hebrews says gives eternal life,

Hebrews 5:8-9
Though He were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered; And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.

These are the commands that must be obeyed in Jesus' gospel to receive Gods free gift of Grace:

Hear and Believe the gospel: Romans 10:17

Repent of your sin and turn to God: Acts 2:38 ; Acts 3:19

Confess your faith in Christ: Romans 10:9-10; Acts 8:37

Be water baptized for the remission of your sins: Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Mark 16:15-16; 1Peter 3:20-21; Acts 16:30-34; Acts 19:1-7 etc.

These acts of obedience to Christ's commands are the whole gospel unto salvation. Faith is only one work of obedience that God requires in order to save us.

1John 3:23-24
And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

And he that Keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

Works like benevolence and giving of our means to God, 1Corintians 16:1-2 are not conditions in the gospel to receive salvation.

These good works must be obeyed after we have been saved.

 

[Danthemailman]

Your position is irrational Danthemailman.

Faith alone:

Or

Repentance and faith alone

Your not making logical sense.

The moment that we place our faith in Christ alone for salvation we are saved. Those who have placed their faith in Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Christ alone for salvation. It makes perfect logical sense.

If it truly is Faith alone then repentance is not essential.

We must first repent (change our mind) before we can place our faith in Christ alone for salvation, so repentance is essential.

If faith alone saves then this also excludes Grace.

Faith neither excludes repentance or grace. Grace is God's part and repentance/faith is man's part. We are not saved by faith alone in the sense that we never repented or that it's not by grace (God's unmerited favor) that we are saved through faith. You still don't understand what a genuine believer means by salvation through faith in Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

If faith alone saves then confession unto salvation, Romans 10:9-10 is excluded.

Faith and confession are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

If faith alone then God does not require us to obey Him.

The obedience you are talking about below "FOLLOWS" having been saved through faith.

Gods word teaches obedience to God is love,
1John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If faith alone then Love for Jesus [obedience) is excluded.

You confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. Why do believers love? Because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) We don't simply conjure up love through the flesh as a work for salvation.

Paul teaches that man most certainly does play a part in his salvation. But it is not meritorious.

Receiving a free gift through faith is not meritorious. Accomplishing a check list of works in order to obtain and/or maintain salvation is meritorious. You remain confused about this.

Even your false gospel has man playing his part in salvation. Just as Paul taught in Epheasians 2:8-9

Receiving the free gift through faith is the non-meritorious part that man plays and salvation by grace through faith, not works is not a false gospel. Salvation by works (your gospel) is a false gospel.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What happened to your check list of works/multiple acts of obedience that you teach must be accomplished "after" faith in order to receive salvation here? Did Paul forget to mention them?

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Good works "follow" having been saved by grace through faith. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works.

Paul affirms that there are two parts in salvation.

Gods part: Grace

Mans part: Faith

I agree with Paul, yet you add a check list of works to the formula to make it salvation by faith "and works." I already addressed your passages of scripture that you continue to misinterpret with the end result being salvation by works. We are saved through faith in Christ then further acts of obedience "follow" as the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. Until you can grasp this, you will continue to have the tail wagging the dog, the cart before the horse and teach a perverted gospel of works salvation.

 

[Titus Dorn]

The moment that we place our faith in Christ alone for salvation we are saved. Those who have placed their faith in Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Christ alone for salvation. It makes perfect logical sense.

We must first repent (change our mind) before we can place our faith in Christ alone for salvation, so repentance is essential.

Faith neither excludes repentance or grace. Grace is God's part and repentance/faith is man's part. We are not saved by faith alone in the sense that we never repented or that it's not by grace (God's unmerited favor) that we are saved through faith. You still don't understand what a genuine believer means by salvation through faith in Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Faith and confession are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

The obedience you are talking about below "FOLLOWS" having been saved through faith.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. Why do believers love? Because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) We don't simply conjure up love through the flesh as a work for salvation.

Receiving a free gift through faith is not meritorious. Accomplishing a check list of works in order to obtain and/or maintain salvation is meritorious. You remain confused about this.

Receiving the free gift through faith is the non-meritorious part that man plays and salvation by grace through faith, not works is not a false gospel. Salvation by works (your gospel) is a false gospel.

What happened to your check list of works/multiple acts of obedience that you teach must be accomplished "after" faith in order to receive salvation here? Did Paul forget to mention them?

Good works "follow" having been saved by grace through faith. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works.

I agree with Paul, yet you add a check list of works to the formula to make it salvation by faith "and works." I already addressed your passages of scripture that you continue to misinterpret with the end result being salvation by works. We are saved through faith in Christ then further acts of obedience "follow" as the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. Until you can grasp this, you will continue to have the tail wagging the dog, the cart before the horse and teach a perverted gospel of works salvation.

It is you that claim the true gospel is salvation by works. The scriptures deny your claim, Epheasians 2:8-9.

It is as I have said and observed you faith alone advocates see works and think, dirty word.

You can not get past all works being meritorious.

They are not all earning salvation. Some works are simply obedience. Not merit.

It is an impossibility that any one can earn their salvation.

God knew this from the beginning. That is why He had a plan to send a Perfect Sacrifice to save mankind from his sins.

Works are in Jesus gospel.

But only Jesus can save If we choose to meet Gods conditions. Hear, believe, repent, confess and be baptized.

As I have said God gives us a free gift. And why is it free?

Because it is impossible to earn it. So God gives it freely.

Does that mean man does nothing to obtain it. No

You contradict your claim that man does nothing to be saved.

Does man not have to believe?

Does man not have to repent?

Of course you know the answer.

Man does do things in order for Jesus to bless us with His cleansing blood.

Does having to do something like believe not make the gift free?

No, so neither does having to repent, confess and be water baptized for the remission of sins.

There is not one example of an individual that obeyed the gospel, ever not having to do something to be saved!

You cannot show one example in the new testament of someone obeying the gospel of Christ that only believed to be saved. Your gospel does not exist in the Bible Sir.

 

[Titus Dorn]

Just answer this simple question.

Faith alone?

Can I just believe only and not repent to be saved?

 

[OSAS 101]

Why don't you just write your own commentary on how you think Mark 16: 15-16 should be interpreted.

You sure don't allow Gods word to interpret itself.

Your analogy is terrible.

Jesus says belief and baptism shall be saved.

Your using water as unnecessary to be well. In your analogy that's true.

But that is not what Jesus said.

He said, he that believeth AND is baptized SHALL be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned.

Baptism is part of belief in Jesus. That is why both are required for salvation
.
You do not believe what Jesus is telling you. Keep believing baptism is not what Jesus says saves you, and you will continue to call Jesus a liar,

1 John 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made Him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son.

John 5:24
Verily , verily, I say unto you, He that HEARETH MY WORD AND BELIEVETH ON HIM THAT SENT ME, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life .

Jesus put belief and baptism together in order to be saved. You have separated what God joined together.

Mark 10:9
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

I'll answer the rest of the mess you have made with the gospel..But for now I want to deal only with repentance.

Tell me what the Jews in Acts 2:38 were to repent of? What do you believe repentance is?

John 6:29;
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Are you saying such a person is not saved?
There's no mention of water baptism.

 

[OSAS 101]

Just answer this simple question.

Faith alone?

Can I just believe only and not repent to be saved?

Regardless of what many use for salvation messages, believing is what saves, not repenting.
Romans 10:9-10;
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Again, no mention of water baptism.
You are misunderstanding the participle that is being used in your one and only verse.

 

[Danthemailman]

It is you that claim the true gospel is salvation by works. The scriptures deny your claim, Epheasians 2:8-9.

It is as I have said and observed you faith alone advocates see works and think, dirty word.

You can not get past all works being meritorious.

They are not all earning salvation. Some works are simply obedience. Not merit.

It is an impossibility that any one can earn their salvation.

God knew this from the beginning. That is why He had a plan to send a Perfect Sacrifice to save mankind from his sins.

Works are in Jesus gospel.

But only Jesus can save If we choose to meet Gods conditions. Hear, believe, repent, confess and be baptized.

As I have said God gives us a free gift. And why is it free?

Because it is impossible to earn it. So God gives it freely.

Does that mean man does nothing to obtain it. No

You contradict your claim that man does nothing to be saved.

Does man not have to believe?

Does man not have to repent?

Of course you know the answer.

Man does do things in order for Jesus to bless us with His cleansing blood.

Does having to do something like believe not make the gift free?

No, so neither does having to repent, confess and be water baptized for the remission of sins.

There is not one example of an individual that obeyed the gospel, ever not having to do something to be saved!

You cannot show one example in the new testament of someone obeying the gospel of Christ that only believed to be saved. Your gospel does not exist in the Bible Sir.

Your multi-step false gospel of works salvation is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics. Saved by faith + works of obedience but the works are not meritorious for salvation is an oxymoron sir. Man is saved when he believes in Christ for salvation/believes the gospel prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18)

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

There are many passages of scripture which make it clear that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

The gospel I preach is the same gospel that the apostle Paul preached which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) BELIEVES + accomplish a check list of works? NO! Simply BELIEVES. It’s your works based false gospel that does not exist sir. You seem determined to DO SOMETHING in order to help save yourself instead of trusting exclusively in what CHRIST HAS ALREADY DONE.

 

[Titus Dorn]

The gospel I preach is the same gospel that the apostle Paul preached which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) BELIEVES + accomplish a check list of works? NO! Simply BELIEVES. It’s your works based false gospel that does not exist sir. You seem determined to DO SOMETHING in order to help save yourself instead of trusting exclusively in what CHRIST HAS ALREADY DONE.

You should find it interesting that Paul never said in Romans 1:16 believes ALONE.

Paul, when he uses verses that say faith saves us.

He never is referring to faith alone, without obedience.

Paul teaches the faith that saves is an obedient faith, Galatians 5:6.

Danthemailman, Can I be saved by Faith Alone if I do not repent?

When you teach Atheists do you first tell them to repent before you convince them there is a God?

 

[Titus Dorn]

Regardless of what many use for salvation messages, believing is what saves, not repenting.
Romans 10:9-10;
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Again, no mention of water baptism.
You are misunderstanding the participle that is being used in your one and only verse.

Hello Sir, nice to converse with you.

Have you read the entire book of Acts?