How Old Is The Earth

[tdidymas]

What is the speed of light?

What does the speed of light have to do with the price of tea in China? What's your point? Spell it out. The scientific answer to your question is: the speed of light is approx. 3x10^8 m/s.

 

[Platte]

What does the speed of light have to do with the price of tea in China? What's your point? Spell it out. The scientific answer to your question is: the speed of light is approx. 3x10^8 m/s.

You asked about seeing stars....and the actual answer is when it comes to stars and their unique properties, science does not know the speed of light.

 

[SuperCow]

No it just depends on how God chose to make the light visible to man within 2 days after creating the stars. If He accelerated the speed of light and these supernovas took place during that time then that would explain why we’re seeing them. We’ve only actually witnessed 4 that I know of. The first one is from the second century. The second is from the 11th century. The third is from the 16th century. And the last one was in 1987. So we can’t even verify that the first two even took place. Nobody knew what a supernova was back then and they didn’t even have telescopes yet. If supernovas were happening while the speed of light was accelerated then it would explain why we are seeing them take place.

There's been four proven supernova sightings (with the naked eye before the invention of telescopes for astronomy, and yes they can be verified, because we can see their remains today) and three suspected ones that are older that aren't verified. That is in our own galaxy; however, since telescopes were invented we've discovered many more. From year 2000-2023 we've discovered 21,297 supernova (Cataloged here: Bright Supernova - Archives, though the number is from a more readable format from Wikipedia.)

So you're suggesting God created an innumerable number of stars, tens or hundreds of thousands of them ready to blow up, sped up the speed of light so that a tiny number of astronomers could discover them and get research publications for their Ph.D and tell us that they are 30 million light-years away.

God created us as curious, adventurous (even when it's extremely dangerous), intelligent, and logical, and yet chose to create things in a way that justifiably appears false to most people except for a contingent of loyal Christians who are willing to ignore two of their basic traits of logic and intelligence. And subsequently they are using their blind faith to drive away any other human that uses intelligence and logic to discern their view of the universe, and then decide to discount Christianity (and most other religions) because they see the world as it lead them to understand, not how the believer portrayed it.

That sets up God to be a deceiver to at least some groups of people who might otherwise embrace him and Jesus sacrifice.

 

[tdidymas]

You asked about seeing stars....and the actual answer is when it comes to stars and their unique properties, science does not know the speed of light.

Is there a secret meaning to your assertion "science does not know the speed of light"? If it means the obvious, that scientists and astronomers are ignorant of the speed of light, then your statement appears ludicrous. I think you better explain it.

 

[Platte]

Is there a secret meaning to your assertion "science does not know the speed of light"? If it means the obvious, that scientists and astronomers are ignorant of the speed of light, then your statement appears ludicrous. I think you better explain it.

Science does not know what the direct speed of light is. They only know what the speed of light is when you reflect it off something. The light from a star would be one of the few things that you are seeing direct light from.

 

[Neogaia777]

The chapter break of Genesis 1 should have been between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:4 as it is a quick summary/overview/quick fly by of any and all creations that are ever made from beginning to end, etc.

Genesis 2:5, and on, jumps right into when creation was already well, well into day 6, which is the day we are still on now, and will be until Jesus comes back, etc.

God Bless.

Day 7 begins when Jesus comes back, and will be the time of his kingdom/paradise on earth, and will be the start of God in the OT's rest until the end of day 7 or this entire creations age, etc. When, after that, this entire creation will be at/come to a complete end, and it will be the time of the second resurrection/judgement, when some (from both resurrections/judgements) will go to the Highest Heaven after that to exist with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (or God in the OT) forever finally, but some will be recycled in a new creation below that of a new lesser heaven (or one still connected again to the new earth) and a new creation/earth (again), etc.

These are all forever, etc. Just as they have already been from forever already, etc. And these judgements were already decided from before the beginning of any of them already, etc, but will just be being revealed to us only in or at the/their proper time, etc.

And these "days" of God are "very, very long" also, in case you haven't caught that already, etc.

God Bless.

@Platte

You are extremely ignorant, and I'm getting very, very tired of people like you spewing garbage and nonsense that only make them feel right or important and burying other people's posts/relpies that might actually give some knowledge or that will lead to some actual revelation or might be of some real true substance like mine back in this thread quoted above this here.

Science most definitely knows the speed of light, and it is a constant, regardless of whether it's coming from a direct source like a star, or is being reflected off of something. It is the speed at which all photons travel, and it is always a constant, etc.

Our sun (which is a star BWT, just in case you didn't know) gives off direct light the speed of which can be measured and it is no different from any other source of light in the universe both when it is another star or even when it is just being reflected off of something.

People like you show just what is wrong with a lot of Christians and/or Christianity, etc.

No love of real knowledge or true revelation, and no desire to seek it out truly, etc.

God Bless.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not sure why you are talking about somebody else.

My question was:

How can this work? How do you know what the scriptures say if you do not know what the author meant (and also what is actually the original text or which translation is the right one)?

It would lead to subjective interpretation of everything, i.e. every individual would determine for himself what the scriptures say and nothing could be judged to be objectively right or wrong.

NOBODY can possibly know what the author intended. EVERYONE has to read the passage and try to interpret what he intended.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Maybe? Why is it suddenly just "maybe"? The text is clear.

You’re the one saying that God didn’t literally stretch out the heavens with His hands.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Its not one scholar, its a body of knowledge of the scholarship. Thats how we know anything about history - scholars study it and present it to laymen.

If we are, instead, trusting just our "gut", its much worse (and lazy), because we do not know how to read such old literature.

Oh it’s “lazy” then put your money where your mouth is and accept my challenge. Engage in the discussion on the lecture and point out exactly where my mistakes are in my refutation of it. You’re the one being lazy because I actually took the time to listen to the entire 1 hour 49 minute lecture, then I pointed out every mistake I noticed and explained why the guy was wrong and even gave time stamps for each point I made so that anyone who disagreed would be able to go straight to that portion of the video. I took the time and effort to make it as easy as possible for you to go straight to that particular portion of the video and make your case against what I wrote. You’re the one being lazy because you refuse to actually discuss the video. All you did was post a link to a video and that’s it, you never one engaged in the discussion about the video, so you’re the one being lazy in the discussion here not me. Someone tells you what to believe and you just believe it, no questions asked. I don’t approach the Bible like that, I think for myself and I actually do my own study instead of sitting back and relying on what someone else tells me that the Bible teaches. Here’s a link to my refutation.

Flat Earth Theory.

Oh come on! So Polaris just disappears when the south celestial pole is viewed? And no, Polaris is NOT directly above the North Pole. Polaris is seen to rotate around a center point just the same as all the other stars. The problem is that center point is completely different in the southern...

www.christianforums.com

 

[tdidymas]

Science does not know what the direct speed of light is. They only know what the speed of light is when you reflect it off something. The light from a star would be one of the few things that you are seeing direct light from.

The difference between measuring the speed of light by reflection and the speed of light from a distant source is a matter of simple arithmetic. If you think otherwise, you should explain the science you believe in. The real science of knowing the speed of light from a distant source is a matter of measuring the wavelength and comparing it with a local source. It's a simple process.

 

[Platte]

@Platte

You are extremely ignorant, and I'm getting very, very tired of people like you spewing garbage and nonsense that only make them feel right or important and burying other people's posts/relpies that might actually give some knowledge or that will lead to some actual revelation or might be of some real true substance like mine back in this thread quoted above this here.

Science most definitely knows the speed of light, and it is a constant, regardless of whether it's coming from a direct source like a star, or is being reflected off of something. It is the speed at which all photons travel, and it is always a constant, etc.

Our sun (which is a star BWT, just in case you didn't know) gives off direct light the speed of which can be measured and it is no different from any other source of light in the universe both when it is another star or even when it is just being reflected off of something.

People like you show just what is wrong with a lot of Christians and/or Christianity, etc.

No love of real knowledge or true revelation, and no desire to seek it out truly, etc.

God Bless.

You didn't say I was ignorant - you said I was extremely ignorant. Hmmm maybe I'm the one giving you some knowledge - apology accepted.

The difference between measuring the speed of light by reflection and the speed of light from a distant source is a matter of simple arithmetic. If you think otherwise, you should explain the science you believe in. The real science of knowing the speed of light from a distant source is a matter of measuring the wavelength and comparing it with a local source. It's a simple process.

There's no way to Measure the Speed of Light in a Single Direction

A new study shows that not even cosmology can verify Einstein's assumption about the speed of light.

www.universetoday.com

Not everything is as simple as it may seem

 

[BNR32FAN]

Don’t pay any mind to the nonsense Trophy33 is saying. He will be spinning in that nonsense forever.

Scripture is referred to hundreds of times in the New Testament by Jesus and the Apostles. Each reference takes a literal reading of events exactly as you and I read it today. Whether it’s Adam being the first man, Noah’s flood, Jonah in the fish, crossing the Red Sea. Details about Abraham, Moses, David, etc…. All references to Scripture (Old Testament) are referred to as real events exactly as you understand it.

Jesus and the apostles are the example you should follow not someone who disrespect the words in the Bible and disrespect and ridicule people that accept the words as they are written as if the Bible can’t be understood by those that read it today.

Stand up for what the Bible says and reject the scoffers wholly and completely.

Here’s the thing, many people post a 2 hour video to support their position expecting that nobody is actually going to watch the entire thing. So they post it, they’ve made their point and it’s usually never refuted because nobody wants to watch a 2 hour video of something they believe is false. I wanted to take the time to see exactly what evidence the video provided and it didn’t provide any evidence at all. It’s just some guy making claims that the text isn’t intended to be taken literally with no evidence to support that claim. And I get why he’s doing it, he’s doing it to help Christians who are attending college to be able to reconcile what they’re being taught in their classes with the Bible. Unfortunately it’s just not biblical. The problem is, many Christians who go off to college become atheists because they’re being taught that what science teaches us is contradictory to what the Bible teaches us. The university is not going to condone a class that teaches that their science classes could be wrong, so the only other option in an academic setting is to teach that the Bible is not intended to be literal. Believing that the Bible is intended to be taken literally in an academic setting is basically committing academic suicide. Anyone who teaches that the Bible is literal and that science is wrong is not going to survive in an academic setting. So the guy giving the lecture has no other alternative, the university is not going to allow him to teach that their science classes are wrong.

 

[Neogaia777]

You didn't say I was ignorant - you said I was extremely ignorant. Hmmm maybe I'm the one giving you some knowledge - apology accepted.

There's no way to Measure the Speed of Light in a Single Direction

A new study shows that not even cosmology can verify Einstein's assumption about the speed of light.

www.universetoday.com

Not everything is as simple as it may seem

It's a constant when it doesn't pass through an absorbing medium, or objects are not in motion, and in the case of motion, can be compensated for, and in the case of absorbing mediums out in space, are still just only theoretical at this point, etc.

I'm sure all you got out of it though is "science can't agree on the speed of light", etc, and that's just simply "not true", which is why I called you "ignorant", etc.

There are also so many other things that are wrong in/with that article that I hardly know where to begin, etc.

It's much, much more than I have room to write here, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Platte]

Here’s the thing, many people post a 2 hour video to support their position expecting that nobody is actually going to watch the entire thing. So they post it, they’ve made their point and it’s usually never refuted because nobody wants to watch a 2 hour video of something they believe is false. I wanted to take the time to see exactly what evidence the video provided and it didn’t provide any evidence at all. It’s just some guy making claims that the text isn’t intended to be taken literally with no evidence to support that claim. And I get why he’s doing it, he’s doing it to help Christians who are attending college to be able to reconcile what they’re being taught in their classes with the Bible. Unfortunately it’s just not biblical. The problem is, many Christians who go off to college become atheists because they’re being taught that what science teaches us is contradictory to what the Bible teaches us. The university is not going to condone a class that teaches that their science classes could be wrong, so the only other option in an academic setting is to teach that the Bible is not intended to be literal. Believing that the Bible is intended to be taken literally in an academic setting is basically committing academic suicide. Anyone who teaches that the Bible is literal and that science is wrong is not going to survive in an academic setting. So the guy giving the lecture has no other alternative, the university is not going to allow him to teach that their science classes are wrong.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense....and of course not taking the Bible literally is exactly what Satan would love for everyone to do.

Nothing against Science - its a great tool - a great guideline for so many things...but its rarely factual and always based on assumptions. Assumptions that may be correct - but could be incorrect also. So you have to approach science with that understanding.

 

[Platte]

It's a constant when it doesn't pass through an absorbing medium, or objects are not in motion, and in the case of motion, can be compensated for, and in the case of absorbing mediums out in space, are still just only theoretical at this point, etc.

I'm sure all you got out of it though is "science can't agree on the speed of light", etc, and that's just simply "not true", which is why I called you "ignorant", etc.

There are also so many other things that are wrong in/with that article that I hardly know where to begin, etc.

It's much, much more than I have room to write here, etc.

God Bless.

Ok - I'll try again with you.

You cannot measure what the speed of light is....no one can. You can only measure what reflected light speed is....not direct light. That is not about agreeing or disagreeing...its simply a fact. So what Einstein did was just make the assumption that direct light is the same speed as reflective light. (When asked about how he could make that assumption - He said its his theory he can make any assumption he wants to)

My point was not to say Einstein was right or wrong...but just to point out that understanding because stars are unique in that they are the only thing (that I know of) that we look at in space that is direct light. So just be aware of that when making statements of fact about distance and such about stars when its definitley not a fact since we don't know the speed of direct light.

and you didn't call me ignorant - you called me extremely ignorant. Apology accepted.

 

[Neogaia777]

Ok - I'll try again with you.

You cannot measure what the speed of light is....no one can. You can only measure what reflected light speed is....not direct light. That is not about agreeing or disagreeing...its simply a fact. So what Einstein did was just make the assumption that direct light is the same speed as reflective light. (When asked about how he could make that assumption - He said its his theory he can make any assumption he wants to)

My point was not to say Einstein was right or wrong...but just to point out that understanding because stars are unique in that they are the only thing (that I know of) that we look at in space that is direct light. So just be aware of that when making statements of fact about distance and such about stars when its definitley not a fact since we don't know the speed of direct light.

and you didn't call me ignorant - you called me extremely ignorant. Apology accepted.

We have a star right in our very own neighborhood that we can measure "the direct speed of light from" and know that it takes approximately 8 minutes to reach our planet, etc.

But, whatever, it's pointless to argue this with you here, etc. And to refute everything in your response, or in the article that you posted here, would take much more room than I have to write here, like I said earlier. I suggest you take this to the Physical and Life Sciences forum here if you are really serious about this, and see just how far you will get with it there, etc, but I'm done trying to argue it with you here, etc.

So, let's get back to topic then, shall we? And since this is the Creation and Theistic Evolution forum, then let's just get back to that, ok, and about the topic "How old is the Earth", ok.

And for those I would refer you back to posts #1,109 & #1,111 from me, or that I quoted in post #1,146 here.

I think each "day" represents very, very, very long periods of time, that the earth is just as old as science says it is, and that the creation account we have in the Bible does not contradict how science says it happened, but actually goes right along with it, etc.

God Bless.

 

[tdidymas]

You didn't say I was ignorant - you said I was extremely ignorant. Hmmm maybe I'm the one giving you some knowledge - apology accepted.

There's no way to Measure the Speed of Light in a Single Direction

A new study shows that not even cosmology can verify Einstein's assumption about the speed of light.

www.universetoday.com

Not everything is as simple as it may seem

There are some assumptions in this article that are speculative and may not be true. Note this phrase: "if the speed of light varies with direction," yet there is no evidence on which to base this "if" assumption. The relativity formula does assume the speed of light is a constant, because all practical measurements show it to be so. The "single direction" speed of light theory is not a difficult hypothesis to refute. In a U of constantly moving objects, it is not the speed of light that varies, but the relative wavelength which varies. Therefore, it is ludicrous to claim the speed of light may not be constant, and then extrapolate that conjecture into a "scientific" explanation of how 10BLY of observation becomes 6k year old light. NOT BUYING WHAT YOU'RE SELLING.

 

[Neogaia777]

There are some assumptions in this article that are speculative and may not be true. Note this phrase: "if the speed of light varies with direction," yet there is no evidence on which to base this "if" assumption. The relativity formula does assume the speed of light is a constant, because all practical measurements show it to be so. The "single direction" speed of light theory is not a difficult hypothesis to refute. In a U of constantly moving objects, it is not the speed of light that varies, but the relative wavelength which varies. Therefore, it is ludicrous to claim the speed of light may not be constant, and then extrapolate that conjecture into a "scientific" explanation of how 10BLY of observation becomes 6k year old light. NOT BUYING WHAT YOU'RE SELLING.

I'm almost thinking about posting it in the Physical and Life Sciences forum myself, just to watch them destroy it, and then linking it here, etc.

But I'm dropping it for now, as it is way, way "off topic" in this thread, and I'm hoping to get back to that here.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

There are some assumptions in this article that are speculative and may not be true. Note this phrase: "if the speed of light varies with direction," yet there is no evidence on which to base this "if" assumption. The relativity formula does assume the speed of light is a constant, because all practical measurements show it to be so. The "single direction" speed of light theory is not a difficult hypothesis to refute. In a U of constantly moving objects, it is not the speed of light that varies, but the relative wavelength which varies. Therefore, it is ludicrous to claim the speed of light may not be constant, and then extrapolate that conjecture into a "scientific" explanation of how 10BLY of observation becomes 6k year old light. NOT BUYING WHAT YOU'RE SELLING.

I love the part where it says "the speed of light coming towards us is at ten times more speed/faster than the light moving away from us", etc.

That part is highly laughable, etc.

The Physical and Life Sciences guys would destroy this one for sure, etc.

God Bless.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Bible doesn't say that, so your conclusion is conjecture. Ex. 20:11 is easily explained by accommodation.

You can call it accommodation if you want to but the fact that Exodus 20:1 specifically says that it was spoken by God absolutely means that what He said was dictated by Him. I completely disagree with your idea of accommodation because I’ve already proven that the people at that time were capable of understanding the concept of billions of years. So your explanation of why He had to accommodate them is incorrect. If God wanted to convey billions of years He could’ve done it numerous ways. The term 6 days does not in any way indicate or represent billions of years.