How Old is the Earth?

[dlamberth]

I’m leaning toward returning to the RCC which is free to believe the universe is billions of years old. I know of priests who have said that it’s that old, which is freeing.

I've found that when learning the deeper spiritual side of Christianity, it's those in the Catholic faith that I go to. It's the Mystics that I'm thinking of. I've also found that the people in the RCC that I'm attracted to tend to take the Genesis Creation story as a relationship with God rather than an absolute literal interpretation. That I get.

 

[Valletta]

I’m leaning toward returning to the RCC which is free to believe the universe is billions of years old. I know of priests who have said that it’s that old, which is freeing.

It was actually a Catholic priest, Father Lemaître, who proposed the Big Bang Theory.

 

[FaithT]

It was actually a Catholic priest, Father Lemaître, who proposed the Big Bang Theory.

I read that. That’s pretty cool. The LCMS doesn’t even believe in the Big Bang Theory.

 

[AV1611VET]

I read that. That’s pretty cool. The LCMS doesn’t even believe in the Big Bang Theory.

Is that something you look for when deciding on what denomination to join?

 

[FaithT]

Is that something you look for when deciding on what denomination to join?

I look for being in agreement with most teachings and beliefs.

 

[AV1611VET]

I look for being in agreement with most teachings and beliefs.

Fair enough.

I'll withdraw the question.

It's none of my business anyway.

 

[All Becomes New]

What I didn't expect is how many people in the video linked below didn't know how old the earth is. And how far off they were. And I'm wondering how wide spread that lack of knowledge about the earth's age is. I don't know if that picture is due to creative editing or actual lack of knowledge.

It makes zero difference in my life how old the earth is.

 

[AV1611VET]

It makes zero difference in my life how old the earth is.

Same here.

God's going to destroy it anyway and make a new one.

 

[sjastro]

I’m leaning toward returning to the RCC which is free to believe the universe is billions of years old. I know of priests who have said that it’s that old, which is freeing.

While the RCC has a long way to go in coming into the 21st century and its handling of pedophile priests, the Pontifical Academy of Sciences is a different matter.

Its 80 Pontifical Academicians are appointed for life by the Holy Father following proposals by the Academic body and chosen without any form of ethnic or religious discrimination from the most eminent scientists and scholars of the mathematical and experimental sciences of every country of the world.

Well known atheist scientists have been in the academy such as Niels Bohr, Stephen Hawking, Erwin Schrodinger, Max Planck, and Paul Berg.

 

[dlamberth]

It makes zero difference in my life how old the earth is.

I do get that.
I think that pretty near all societies have some sort of Creation story. And in the Creation story of today's society the age of the Earth is something of importance. It does make a difference. Though some are still hanging onto the Creation story's of the past, I suspect that will change eventually.

 

[All Becomes New]

Though some are still hanging onto the Creation story's of the past, I suspect that will change eventually.

That seems to come with your help. I'm not impressed.

 

[dlamberth]

That seems to come with your help. I'm not impressed.

I wouldn't expect otherwise.

 

[Valletta]

While the RCC has a long way to go in coming into the 21st century and its handling of pedophile priests, the Pontifical Academy of Sciences is a different matter.​

Well known atheist scientists have been in the academy such as Niels Bohr, Stephen Hawking, Erwin Schrodinger, Max Planck, and Paul Berg.

​

In the United States the Catholic Church has reduced the number of new sexual abuse cases to the single digits each year. I wish it were zero, but the system overall is effective. Meanwhile, the rest of the country has more sexual abuse than ever before. I don't know about the rest of the scientists, but Max Planck wrote the following after his son was killed by the Nazis:

“If there is consolation anywhere it is in the Eternal, and Iconsider it a grace of Heaven that belief in the Eternal has been rooted deeply in me since childhood.
God protect and strengthen you for everything that still may come before this insanity in which we are forced to live reaches its end.” (Planck, as cited in Heilbron 1986, 195-196).

 

[AV1611VET]

In the United States the Catholic Church has reduced the number of new sexual abuse cases to the single digits each year. I wish it were zero, but the system overall is effective. Meanwhile, the rest of the country has more sexual abuse than ever before.

Our country is polluted.

Psalm 106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.

God help us!

 

[AV1611VET]

How Old is the Earth?

As old as the hills.

 

[FaithT]

As old as the hills.

Which is?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I read that. That’s pretty cool. The LCMS doesn’t even believe in the Big Bang Theory.

I've mentioned this before I think when we've spoken. But a year ago I jointed a local AALC congregation, which is in altar and pulpit fellowship with the LCMS. The official position of the AALC, like the LCMS, is YEC. One of the pastors (not active, but retired, but who was serving as interrim pastor until we received our current active pastor) and I have had chats about science. He has had no problem talking about science and recognizing science. We geeked out a little talking about dinosaurs one time after Mass in the fellowship hall.

What I'm getting at is that boots-on-the-ground, Lutherans--laity and clergy alike--are much more diverse than what official upper eschelon denominational positions might suggest. While pastors are more strongly bound, due to their committments, laity are not under the same kind of expectation.

Before joining the AALC I was ELCA, which I certainly had more agreements with on some social issues and their more open stance on science. My reasons for becoming AALC rather than remaining ELCA didn't come down to politics or science; but confessionalism.

I'm not going to say that I don't still have reservations about my new church. I absolutely adore my church. But I sometimes worry about external influences affecting things.

But I have to realize that "the perfect church" doesn't exist. It's not about me.

At the end of the day here is what I'm saying: I don't think you should leave the LCMS/become RCC because of different views on science. That should be one of the least important things. If you are, based upon conscience, convinced in the intrinsic truth of what Catholicism confesses (in where it differs from Lutheranism), then you should follow conscience. But if the reason is purely over a peripheral issue, like the LCMS officially rejects evolution/old universe/big bang/etc then I want to reassure you that it shouldn't be a huge concern.
There are lots of people in the LCMS who accept science as science.

The core questions I hope you are asking yourself are what do you believe about God--about the Gospel, and about how you should treat your neighbor. The things that truly matter as a Christian. Our ideas about science, and in a lot of cases politics, should only really become a matter when it affects our confessional and vocational life--who we are as a people that calls Jesus Lord, tasked with the privilege of representing Him through love toward others, and holding firm to the gift and promise of God's grace toward us which saves us, keeps us, and comforts us with His love.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FaithT]

I've mentioned this before I think when we've spoken. But a year ago I jointed a local AALC congregation, which is in altar and pulpit fellowship with the LCMS. The official position of the AALC, like the LCMS, is YEC. One of the pastors (not active, but retired, but who was serving as interrim pastor until we received our current active pastor) and I have had chats about science. He has had no problem talking about science and recognizing science. We geeked out a little talking about dinosaurs one time after Mass in the fellowship hall.

What I'm getting at is that boots-on-the-ground, Lutherans--laity and clergy alike--are much more diverse than what official upper eschelon denominational positions might suggest. While pastors are more strongly bound, due to their committments, laity are not under the same kind of expectation.

Before joining the AALC I was ELCA, which I certainly had more agreements with on some social issues and their more open stance on science. My reasons for becoming AALC rather than remaining ELCA didn't come down to politics or science; but confessionalism.

I'm not going to say that I don't still have reservations about my new church. I absolutely adore my church. But I sometimes worry about external influences affecting things.

But I have to realize that "the perfect church" doesn't exist. It's not about me.

At the end of the day here is what I'm saying: I don't think you should leave the LCMS/become RCC because of different views on science. That should be one of the least important things. If you are, based upon conscience, convinced in the intrinsic truth of what Catholicism confesses (in where it differs from Lutheranism), then you should follow conscience. But if the reason is purely over a peripheral issue, like the LCMS officially rejects evolution/old universe/big bang/etc then I want to reassure you that it shouldn't be a huge concern.
There are lots of people in the LCMS who accept science as science.

The core questions I hope you are asking yourself are what do you believe about God--about the Gospel, and about how you should treat your neighbor. The things that truly matter as a Christian. Our ideas about science, and in a lot of cases politics, should only really become a matter when it affects our confessional and vocational life--who we are as a people that calls Jesus Lord, tasked with the privilege of representing Him through love toward others, and holding firm to the gift and promise of God's grace toward us which saves us, keeps us, and comforts us with His love.

-CryptoLutheran

There are other reasons, too. I feel that the Eucharist is more valid after being consecrated by a priest, I pretty much believe in apostolic succession, I believe in praying for the intersession of saints etc. There are lots of reasons that factor into it but the biggie is that I just don’t feel good going to the LCMS when I strongly disagree with their teaching on evolution and age of the universe/earth. It really bothers me.
I miss going to confession which very few do at the LCMS church I’d been going to and they have no confessionals. And I miss my LCMS pastor who went on to become a school chaplain. And still other things. I just think that for now, I’m going to go to the RCC and also visit the LCMS with my hubby when he goes there. I’ll go to both churches until I’m sure about what I want to do. But I can’t receive Communion from the LCMS church bc otherwise I’d have to go to confession before receiving at the RCC.

 

[Frank Robert]

I’m leaning toward returning to the RCC which is free to believe the universe is billions of years old. I know of priests who have said that it’s that old, which is freeing.

For the RCC along with many mainline Protestant denominations the age of the earth is not a moral or faith issue. In other words their adherent are free to accept or deny the science.

 

[sjastro]

In the United States the Catholic Church has reduced the number of new sexual abuse cases to the single digits each year. I wish it were zero, but the system overall is effective. Meanwhile, the rest of the country has more sexual abuse than ever before. I don't know about the rest of the scientists, but Max Planck wrote the following after his son was killed by the Nazis:

“If there is consolation anywhere it is in the Eternal, and Iconsider it a grace of Heaven that belief in the Eternal has been rooted deeply in me since childhood.
God protect and strengthen you for everything that still may come before this insanity in which we are forced to live reaches its end.” (Planck, as cited in Heilbron 1986, 195-196).

This clearly indicates Max Plank was not an atheist.
Further according to Heilbron.

Noted historian of science John L. Heilbron characterized Planck's views on God as deistic.[48] Heilbron further relates that when asked about his religious affiliation, Planck replied that although he had always been deeply religious, he did not believe "in a personal God, let alone a Christian God."[49]