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How old is the earth?

Halbhh

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Right, so according to your sequence Genesis 1:1, the creation of the heavens and the earth, did not take place on the first day of creation. That directly contradicts Exodus 20:11. I mean feel free to disregard that fact all you want but I’m going to believe that Exodus 20:11 is written correctly, the way God actually created the universe because with that interpretation everything coincides perfectly with no contradictions.
This post is mostly scripture and it's lovely and wonderful to read and enjoy.

I'll try not to say much myself at all. :)

As you already agree I bet -- to understand many verses, we must read them in full total context, else our preconceived ideas can overwhelm our perception and create a new meaning for a verse than it has.

This happens constantly as you will already agree.

Is the Earth flat? If a person is convinced it is (their idea) then they will try to see it in the bible --

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …”

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.


But what happens to the Flat Earth reading of verses when we have full context? --

Psalm 93:
1 The Lord reigns, he is robed in majesty;
the Lord is robed in majesty and armed with strength;
indeed, the world is established, firm and secure.
2 Your throne was established long ago;
you are from all eternity.
3 The seas have lifted up, Lord,
the seas have lifted up their voice;
the seas have lifted up their pounding waves.
4 Mightier than the thunder of the great waters,
mightier than the breakers of the sea—
the Lord on high is mighty.
5 Your statutes, Lord, stand firm;
holiness adorns your house
for endless days.


Now we get verse 1 --> Earth is firm/reliable -- Earth won't turn into quicksand everywhere or tilt over or fall towards the sun or break in many pieces everywhere....

We can depend on it, and live on it 100 years or more...securely.


The "foundations of the Earth are immovable and firm..."!

Hallelujah.

Isaiah 40 --

1 Comfort, comfort my people,
says your God.
2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and proclaim to her
that her hard service has been completed,
that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the Lord’s hand
double for all her sins.
3 A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord[a];
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God.[b]
4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain.
5 And the glory of the Lord will be revealed,
and all people will see it together.
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”
6 A voice says, “Cry out.”
And I said, “What shall I cry?”
“All people are like grass,
and all their faithfulness is like the flowers of the field.
7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
because the breath of the Lord blows on them.
Surely the people are grass.
8 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of our God endures forever.”
9 You who bring good news to Zion,
go up on a high mountain.
You who bring good news to Jerusalem,[c]
lift up your voice with a shout,
lift it up, do not be afraid;
say to the towns of Judah,
“Here is your God!”
10 See, the Sovereign Lord comes with power,
and he rules with a mighty arm.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.
11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.
12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,
or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?
Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket,
or weighed the mountains on the scales
and the hills in a balance?
13 Who can fathom the Spirit[d] of the Lord,
or instruct the Lord as his counselor?
14 Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge,
or showed him the path of understanding?
15 Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket;
they are regarded as dust on the scales;
he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust.
16 Lebanon is not sufficient for altar fires,
nor its animals enough for burnt offerings.
17 Before him all the nations are as nothing;
they are regarded by him as worthless
and less than nothing.
18 With whom, then, will you compare God?
To what image will you liken him?
19 As for an idol, a metalworker casts it,
and a goldsmith overlays it with gold
and fashions silver chains for it.
20 A person too poor to present such an offering
selects wood that will not rot;
they look for a skilled worker
to set up an idol that will not topple.
21 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
23 He brings princes to naught
and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.
24 No sooner are they planted,
no sooner are they sown,
no sooner do they take root in the ground,
than he blows on them and they wither,
and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.

----------
Verse 22 -- God is above us -- He is all-seeing, all-able, knowing all wisdom and all truth....all these things we fail at and cannot do, He can do.

---
Reading Scripture:

Only those humble can enter heaven:

"God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble" (many instances throughout the bible)

---
18 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. ..."

(Matthew 18)
-------

We are to be humble (and in fact, without humbleness like a child, a person cannot enter heaven, not even with faith!).

When a person is humble, then they listen totally...to all the words, not just some....

Because the humble person expects to be taught all the time by the Word. Right now. All the time.

So, therefore the humble person will listen by reading fully through while being silent in their own minds, silencing their own ideas/doctrines/viewpoints, to just purely listen.

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."

So, we want to hear all He said, not only some pieces.
 
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Halbhh

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So, when a person claims a meaning or doctrine to paint onto a verse like the verse Exodus 20:11, we can ask: did you read fully in Exodus chapter 19, every word? Did you read fully Exodus chapter 20 every word? Did you read even verse 22 with every word even in just that one verse, along with all the other verses together?

Together as a whole?

Did you?

And perhaps there is some way we can encourage others to listen instead of talking over the text with their doctrines?

When we do really listen to Exodus 19 and 20 we hear God Himself speaking the Law. Even reasoning with us in verse 11 with " Therefore...".

Can we listen?

Can we read from verse 1, and just truly listen, and hear?

To listen we will not hear own own inner thoughts saying a doctrinal concept (like YEC), but instead we fall silent and listen. Can we then hear God's words more fully, and hear His instruction to us?

This matters all the time throughout the bible, in the New Testament if anything even more. But it matters in the Old Testament also.
 
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BNR32FAN

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As you already agree I bet -- to understand many verses, we must read them in full total context, else our preconceived ideas can overwhelm our perception and create a new meaning for a verse than it has.

Yes but that doesn’t include omitting certain details in those verses. You can’t retain the FULL CONTEXT by omitting certain portions of the passage. That’s not FULL CONTEXT, that’s only partial context which is what you’re doing.

Here let me show you an example of how removing certain details because it’s not part of the main focus of the passage results in a loss of information. We can use any chapter in the entire Bible to do this. Let’s start with Matthew 1.

“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ok stop Joseph being a righteous man is not the focus of the message so let’s omit that.

“But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1‬:‭20‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ok let’s stop again because the fulfillment of the prophecy is not the main focus here so let’s omit that to.

““Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.” And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1‬:‭23‬-‭25‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ok let’s stop again because Mary remaining a virgin until Jesus was born is not the main focus of this chapter so let’s omit that as well.

Chapter 2

“Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying,”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ok let’s stop the focus of the message is not where the magi were from so let’s omit that.
““Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Oh let’s stop again because the focus of the chapter is not the location of Christ’s star so let’s omit that as well.

Do you see how ridiculous this is getting? We can keep doing this chapter after chapter, verse after verse and omit 50% of what is written in the scriptures according to this reasoning.
When a person is humble, then they listen totally...to all the words, not just some....

I’m not the one omitting words from Genesis 1 or Exodus 20, that’s all you brother.
 
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Halbhh

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Yes but that doesn’t include omitting certain details in those verses. You can’t retain the FULL CONTEXT by omitting certain portions of the passage.
Amen! On that, we agree. And I'm glad.

So...with faith in God, forget me a day or 2, and just read Exodus fully, listening as you go along, or if you've read it fully in the last 5 years, then at least read from chapter 19 verse 1, and read from verse 1 really for the wonderful experience of reading entirely all.

Every word of chapters 19 and 20. Listening, and it's so astounding. The totality of it all....

 
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BNR32FAN

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So, when a person claims a meaning or doctrine to paint onto a verse like the verse Exodus 20:11, we can ask: did you read fully in Exodus chapter 19, every word? Did you read fully Exodus chapter 20 every word? Did you read even verse 22 with every word even in just that one verse, along with all the other verses together?
Just to be clear I’ve read the entire Bible, every word. None of the surrounding verses nor anything in the entire chapter, nor anything in the book of Exodus, or anything written in the entire Bible negates Exodus 20:11 saying that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. Which brings me to my next point that you brought up which I thought was very interesting.

As you already agree I bet -- to understand many verses, we must read them in full total context, else our preconceived ideas can overwhelm our perception and create a new meaning for a verse than it has.

You mentioned how preconceived ideas can overwhelm our perception and create new meanings for a verse than it has. I completely agree. So where did you come up with the notion that the earth and the heavens were not created in 6 days? That’s not taught in the Bible, that’s taught by modern science. Everything in the Bible consistently points to a six day creation. There are no verses anywhere in the Bible that imply that any part of the creation process took longer than 6 days. You’re the one with the preconceived notion based on what science is telling everyone. It’s not a biblical viewpoint it’s a scientific viewpoint which is why you’re resorting to omitting certain portions of the scripture so that scripture and science coincide with one another but that never works. The Bible is not a scientific book, it’s a spiritual supernatural book filled with numerous miracles and supernatural phenomenons. The Bible was never intended to be supported by science, if it was then it wouldn’t actually contain any records of miracles. Now where could I possibly get the idea of a 6 day creation apart from the Bible? Did I have a preconceived notion that derived from someplace other than the Bible? Because I’m not aware of any sources other than the Bible that support a 6 day creation.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Name one.
Life. What makes a being alive? How can a completely random process produce a creature with instinct? Why do cells not continue growing past a certain size? Why do they divide? In order to reproduce, two similar but very different beings have to "evolve" at exactly the same time and in the same place. They have survive until breeding age, many years in some cases. It's not like countless beings evolve to the same place at the same time. It's an utterly mindless, random process after all. If one of being fails to survive, millions of years of evolution are terminated.

Evolution has no mechanism. Why no 8 armed humans? Octopi are among the most intelligent creatures. Imagine an octopus that could speak and think rationally and logically. My mother sought this constantly. Multi tasking would be a breeze. Evolutionists speak of a body plan. Plan? Even they can see the marvel of God's creation, they just refuse to acknowledge it.

The fundamental argument that evolutionists put forward is that it happened because it happened. Anyone who argues against that is ridiculed, the go-to approach of those whose arguments are weak. The supposed age of the earth is utterly implausible. We would have no moon for a start. It would be drifting in space, perhaps drawn to another planet whose gravity is greater than earth's.

Sir Fred Hoyle said that abiogenesis was akin to a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and producing a Boeing 747. Without abiogenesis there is no evolution. Queue frothing at the mouth from evolutionists who refuse to accept that concept.
 
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Diamond72

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could’ve convicted them by saying that God created everything in the heavens and on the earth in 6 days.
From His perspective or our perspective. "Day" does not exist for God. We are finite, He is infinite.
 
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BNR32FAN

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From His perspective or our perspective. "Day" does not exist for God. We are finite, He is infinite.
The word day was put into the passage for a reason. If it wasn’t intended to show a specific amount of time then He could’ve just stopped the creation account at verse 1 and left out all the details. Evidently He decided to include those details because He wanted us to know what took place.
 
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Diamond72

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If it wasn’t intended to show a specific amount of time
The interpretation and understanding of the Bible can be approached on different levels, each providing unique insights into its teachings. While the exact number of levels may vary depending on individual perspectives, many scholars and theologians recognize at least four main levels of understanding:

  1. Literal Level: This is the most basic and straightforward level of understanding, where the text is interpreted literally. It involves understanding the events, characters, and narratives as they are presented in the Bible.
  2. Historical Level: This level involves studying the historical and cultural context in which the biblical texts were written. Understanding the historical background, customs, and traditions of the time can provide valuable context to the stories and messages conveyed in the Bible.
  3. Moral or Ethical Level: At this level, readers seek to find moral and ethical teachings within the text. The Bible contains numerous principles and teachings on how to live a righteous and virtuous life, and this level of understanding focuses on drawing lessons and guidance for one's conduct and behavior.
  4. Spiritual or Allegorical Level: This level delves into the symbolic and allegorical meanings of the text. It involves looking beyond the literal interpretation to find deeper spiritual and metaphorical truths. For example, some passages may be seen as foreshadowing future events or representing spiritual concepts and principles.
Additionally, some interpretations also include:

  1. Eschatological Level: This level focuses on understanding the biblical prophecies and teachings related to the end times and the future destiny of humanity.
It's important to note that these levels are not mutually exclusive, and many passages in the Bible can be understood and interpreted on multiple levels simultaneously. Different religious traditions and denominations may emphasize different aspects of biblical interpretation, leading to a diverse range of perspectives and approaches to understanding the sacred texts.
 
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Diamond72

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The YouTube channel called Answers in Genesis basically convinced me that the earth is young . Between 6-10,000 years old.
Modern civilization is 6,000 years. Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago and they were the first to have the breath of life. The world we live in, the world we know began 6,000 years ago. That does not mean there was nothing here before that. The issue has to do with Genesis chapter one. All of the rest of the Bible takes place in the last 6,000 years and is in fact a very accurate History book.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The interpretation and understanding of the Bible can be approached on different levels, each providing unique insights into its teachings. While the exact number of levels may vary depending on individual perspectives, many scholars and theologians recognize at least four main levels of understanding:

  1. Literal Level: This is the most basic and straightforward level of understanding, where the text is interpreted literally. It involves understanding the events, characters, and narratives as they are presented in the Bible.
  2. Historical Level: This level involves studying the historical and cultural context in which the biblical texts were written. Understanding the historical background, customs, and traditions of the time can provide valuable context to the stories and messages conveyed in the Bible.
  3. Moral or Ethical Level: At this level, readers seek to find moral and ethical teachings within the text. The Bible contains numerous principles and teachings on how to live a righteous and virtuous life, and this level of understanding focuses on drawing lessons and guidance for one's conduct and behavior.
  4. Spiritual or Allegorical Level: This level delves into the symbolic and allegorical meanings of the text. It involves looking beyond the literal interpretation to find deeper spiritual and metaphorical truths. For example, some passages may be seen as foreshadowing future events or representing spiritual concepts and principles.
Additionally, some interpretations also include:

  1. Eschatological Level: This level focuses on understanding the biblical prophecies and teachings related to the end times and the future destiny of humanity.
It's important to note that these levels are not mutually exclusive, and many passages in the Bible can be understood and interpreted on multiple levels simultaneously. Different religious traditions and denominations may emphasize different aspects of biblical interpretation, leading to a diverse range of perspectives and approaches to understanding the sacred texts.
This is irrelevant because there’s only one truth. A correct interpretation will coincide with all scripture without contradicting other verses. A 6 day creation interpretation accomplishes that, everything else does not.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Modern civilization is 6,000 years. Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago and they were the first to have the breath of life. The world we live in, the world we know began 6,000 years ago. That does not mean there was nothing here before that. The issue has to do with Genesis chapter one. All of the rest of the Bible takes place in the last 6,000 years and is in fact a very accurate History book.
And this interpretation is based on Genesis 1:1 not taking place during the 6 day creation which directly contradicts Exodus 20:11. That interpretation only appears to be plausible when viewing Genesis 1 in isolation of the rest of scripture, but when that interpretation is compared to Exodus 20:11 it doesn’t coincide with it.
 
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BurningBush84

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Modern civilization is 6,000 years. Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago and they were the first to have the breath of life. The world we live in, the world we know began 6,000 years ago. That does not mean there was nothing here before that. The issue has to do with Genesis chapter one. All of the rest of the Bible takes place in the last 6,000 years and is in fact a very accurate History book.
Does God not have the power to create something that looks old yet is young ? I thought God was "Almighty".

Adam and Eve looked mature right when they were created , why can't the earth be similar?
 
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Diamond72

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Does God not have the power to create something that looks old yet is young ?
God cannot lie, cheat, steal, trick or deceive people. God is a God of Justice. All He does is a reflection of that and He cannot in any way be unjust. That is why Jesus went to Calvary.

Age or ages means periods of time. By using the term "ancient" in reference to God, the Bible emphasizes His eternal nature, transcendence beyond time, and everlasting wisdom and authority. It underscores the belief that God has always existed, and He will always exist—unchanged and without end.
 
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BurningBush84

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God cannot lie, cheat, steal, trick or deceive people. God is a God of Justice. All He does is a reflection of that and He cannot in any way be unjust. That is why Jesus went to Calvary.

Age or ages means periods of time. By using the term "ancient" in reference to God, the Bible emphasizes His eternal nature, transcendence beyond time, and everlasting wisdom and authority. It underscores the belief that God has always existed, and He will always exist—unchanged and without end.
So when the Bible says "day" , you believe that could mean anywhere from 12 hours to 4.5 billion years ?????.
 
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BurningBush84

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God cannot lie. But Satan can. God said , "day".


And we all know a "day" is no more than 24 hours in length. But Satan is a liar , He wants you to doubt God's word, . He wants you to trust in the wisdom of this world , this fallen world,, instead of trusting in his Word. His Holy Word.
 
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