How old is the earth?

[Diamond72]

So when the Bible says "day" , you believe that could mean anywhere from 12 hours to 4.5 billion years ?????.

A day is a unit of time that represents the period between sunrise and sunset. The Hebrews use a different calender than we do. They measure from sunset to sunrise. WE all that night. In the north in the land of the midnight sun a day can be 24 hours with no darkness. Also, a day can be 24 hours of darkness with no light.

I tend to be a dispensationalist where a day is 1,000 years. That is the easiest to explain. 2 Peter 3:8: "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day."
Moses himself says: "For a thousand years in your sight are like yesterday when it is past, or like a watch in the night." Psalm 90:4 The intention of this verse is to convey the idea of God's timeless and eternal nature. From a human perspective, a thousand years may seem like an incredibly long time, but to God, who exists beyond the limitations of time, it is but a fleeting moment.

Approximately 13,000 years ago, there was a significant extinction event known as the "Late Pleistocene Extinction" or the "Quaternary Extinction." This event marked the end of the Pleistocene epoch and the beginning of the Holocene epoch. So the Bible is very easy to explain if a day is 1,000 years as Peter and Moses tells us.

YEC of course is very easy, we have Bishop Ussher's book that began 6,000 years ago. There is nothing in his book that takes place before Adam and Eve. Human history, written history, and oral traditions began 6,000 years ago. You can not list all that began at the beginning of civilization 6,000 years ago.

The most difficult is OEC. You want to think a "day" is equal in length, but in reality the days can not be the same length. Gerold Schroder does a wonderful job of explaining this. Each day is half the length of the day before. He explains this by explaining that the Bible is written from the beginning forward. Not from the present looking back on time the way we tend to do today. I asked Schroder a question about the event horizon in a black hole, but he did not know the answer to my question. Genesis 1:3 "Then God said, 'Let there be light'; and there was light."

Am I OEC? Yes, Am I YEC? Yes, because BOTH are true at the same time. Science has to do with the best explanation of the information we have to work with. We start with a hypothesis and then proceed through various stages to test and validate that hypothesis. This process is known as the scientific method. If someone has a better explanation great, let's hear it. But I do not believe God is a trickster to deceive us. He wants us to know what He has done and He gives us lots to work with to understand what He has done.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

 

[Diamond72]

And we all know a "day" is no more than 24 hours in length.

Depends on what you measure. The Earth's rotation is gradually slowing down over time due to tidal forces caused by the Moon and the Sun. As a result, the length of a day is slowly increasing by about 1.7 milliseconds per century. This means that in the distant past, days were shorter than they are now, and in the distant future, days will be slightly longer than the current 24-hour duration.

If a year were composed of exact 24-hour days (86,400 seconds each), it would contain 365 days. However, the actual solar year is approximately 365.2422 days. Since the introduction of UTC in 1972, leap seconds have been added at irregular intervals, typically once every few years. The most recent leap second was added on December 31, 2016, making the last minute of the year 61 seconds long.

We also have a wobble effect based on how close we are to other planets at any given point in time.

The KJV talks about the perfect day. Proverbs 4:18

 

[Aussie Pete]

Can you reference and quote what the evolutionists are saying about life that you are objecting to?

Can you reference and quote what the evolutionists are saying about life that you are objecting to?

It's not easy because evolutionists can't agree among themselves. However, apart from theistic evolutionists, the assumption is that life just happened. A collection of chemicals appeared in the same place at the same time and somehow assembled themselves into an inaminate thing that somehow sprang to life. One idea is that a bolt of lightning imparted energy that produced life. I know something about lightning. It is entirely destructive. However, evolutionists have to have some mechanism, even if it makes no sense.

This is from the "Understanding Evolution" website:
Simple organic molecules, similar to the nucleotide shown below, are the building blocks of life and must have been involved in its origin. Experiments suggest that organic molecules could have been synthesized in the atmosphere of early Earth and rained down into the oceans. RNA and DNA molecules — the genetic material for all life — are just long chains of simple nucleotides.

"Must have been". No logical or rational reason why, just it happened because it happened
"Experiments suggest" well, no they do not.
"Could have been" or far more likely, never were. There is no evidence to suggest this far fetched guess. If it was true, how come it is not happening now?
"Are just long chains of simple nucleotides." Except they are astonishingly complex and coded with exactly what is needed in order to produce a particular creature. Genes are the "instruction manual" for all living things (Pfizer). Instruction manuals are not produced by an explosion in a print shop. Someone writes them.

There is no evidence whatever for the spontaneous formation of life. The last 70 years of experimentation surely demonstrates that. Without life, evolution is impossible. Rocks do not evolve.

 

[Diamond72]

And we all know a "day" is no more than 24 hours in length.

In the Bible, the word "day" can be used in both the singular and plural forms, depending on the context in which it is used. Also we read things like "forever and ever" in the Bible. This gives us a sense of eternity, yet this is just a bad translation. The word is age. So we have the end of this age and the end of all ages. As we look back in time we are talking about ages also. Science has identified a LOT of ages. Yet all life is connected. The Bible talks about Adam and Eve being a common ancestor. Science tells us that everything alive on the earth today shares a common ancestor. Evolution that so many argue against actually goes a long way to show us what our Bible is saying.

 

[Diamond72]

It's not easy because evolutionists can't agree among themselves.

Science is not science without peer review and some degree of agreement.

However, apart from theistic evolutionists, the assumption is that life just happened.

Evo devo is not exactly the same as Theistic Evolution. Atheists claim that if we started from the beginning everything would be vastly different from the way it is. They have some sort of random theory. But chance and random does not really exist. It is just to complicated for us to understand.

Evo Devo tells us that the laws are the same everywhere in the universe. So everything is going to turn out pretty much the same wherever you go in the universe. We know that the elements are consistent and the same.

Rocks do not evolve.

Rocks are composed of minerals, which are naturally occurring inorganic substances with a specific chemical composition and crystal structure. An element, is a pure substance composed of only one type of atom.

 

[Diamond72]

So when the Bible says "day" , you believe that could mean anywhere from 12 hours to 4.5 billion years ?????.

The Rabbi believes there can be up to 100 meanings. The best-selling book The Paradigm talks about this.

The Paradigm: The Ancient Blueprint That Holds the Mystery of Our Times​

In "The Paradigm," Jonathan Cahn presents a unique perspective on current events by drawing parallels between historical figures and events from the ancient world and modern-day political and cultural developments. He argues that there are hidden patterns and connections between past and present events, and these patterns reveal a "paradigm" or blueprint that shapes the course of history.

It is based on the idea that the Bible is a complex and multi-layered text that can be interpreted in various ways, depending on factors such as the reader's cultural background, historical context, linguistic analysis, and theological beliefs.

The Bible is a collection of diverse literary genres, including historical narratives, poetry, prophecies, parables, and epistles, written by different authors over centuries. This diversity contributes to the richness of interpretations possible for its verses and passages.

The different meanings attributed to the Bible can be broadly categorized into several approaches:

1. Literal Interpretation: Some readers interpret the Bible literally, taking the words and events described at face value.
2. Allegorical Interpretation: Others view certain stories or passages as allegorical, where the events and characters symbolically represent deeper spiritual truths.
3. Typological Interpretation: This approach sees certain events, characters, or elements in the Old Testament as prefiguring or foreshadowing events or truths in the New Testament.
4. Moral and Ethical Interpretation: Some interpretations focus on the moral and ethical lessons that can be derived from the Bible's teachings.
5. Historical Interpretation: Scholars analyze the Bible in light of historical context, seeking to understand its relevance and significance in the historical setting in which it was written.
6. Eschatological Interpretation: This approach looks for prophecies and predictions about the end times and the future in the Bible.

The idea that there can be numerous valid interpretations of the Bible is grounded in the belief that the scriptures are multifaceted and can speak to different people in diverse ways. This recognition of interpretive diversity has led to a wide range of theological perspectives and denominations within Christianity, each emphasizing different aspects of the biblical text. It is essential to respect and understand the various approaches to biblical interpretation while engaging in thoughtful and respectful discussions about its meanings and implications.

 

[Diamond72]

A correct interpretation will coincide with all scripture without contradicting other verses.

There is no correct interpretation. We have to go back and study the original language. Only Jesus can add to what we receive from Moses. So we can always go back to see what Moses says about something.

 

[Diamond72]

And this interpretation is based on Genesis 1:1

It is based on Gensis chapter 2. The Hebrew phrase נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים (nishmat chayim) refers to the life-giving breath that God breathed into Adam, granting him life and making him a living being. The concept of the "breath of life" represents the divine essence that gives human beings their vitality and distinguishes them as living creatures.

 

[Diamond72]

So when the Bible says "day" , you believe that could mean anywhere from 12 hours to 4.5 billion years ?????.

The different meanings attributed to the Bible can be broadly categorized into several approaches:

1. Literal Interpretation: Some readers interpret the Bible literally, taking the words and events described at face value.
2. Allegorical Interpretation: Others view certain stories or passages as allegorical, where the events and characters symbolically represent deeper spiritual truths.
3. Typological Interpretation: This approach sees certain events, characters, or elements in the Old Testament as prefiguring or foreshadowing events or truths in the New Testament.
4. Moral and Ethical Interpretation: Some interpretations focus on the moral and ethical lessons that can be derived from the Bible's teachings.
5. Historical Interpretation: Scholars analyze the Bible in light of historical context, seeking to understand its relevance and significance in the historical setting in which it was written.
6. Eschatological Interpretation: This approach looks for prophecies and predictions about the end times and the future in the Bible.

The idea that there can be numerous valid interpretations of the Bible is grounded in the belief that the scriptures are multifaceted and can speak to different people in diverse ways.

 

[tonychanyt]

It's not easy because evolutionists can't agree among themselves.

Can you quote the ones that disagree with you?

 

[BurningBush84]

The different meanings attributed to the Bible can be broadly categorized into several approaches:

1. Literal Interpretation: Some readers interpret the Bible literally, taking the words and events described at face value.
2. Allegorical Interpretation: Others view certain stories or passages as allegorical, where the events and characters symbolically represent deeper spiritual truths.
3. Typological Interpretation: This approach sees certain events, characters, or elements in the Old Testament as prefiguring or foreshadowing events or truths in the New Testament.
4. Moral and Ethical Interpretation: Some interpretations focus on the moral and ethical lessons that can be derived from the Bible's teachings.
5. Historical Interpretation: Scholars analyze the Bible in light of historical context, seeking to understand its relevance and significance in the historical setting in which it was written.
6. Eschatological Interpretation: This approach looks for prophecies and predictions about the end times and the future in the Bible.

The idea that there can be numerous valid interpretations of the Bible is grounded in the belief that the scriptures are multifaceted and can speak to different people in diverse ways.

So Judgement Day is going to last 1,000 years??

 

[Diamond72]

So Judgement Day is going to last 1,000 years??

No, judgement takes place after the 1,000 years.

Revelation 20
The Final Judgment
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds

 

[ViaCrucis]

What make you think that it is a deception?

Let's pretend for a moment that you were created in a lab last Thursday. Everything about your life before last Thursday isn't true, it was simply implanted into your mind. Any scars on your body, and memories associated with them, well that never happened. They are false scars, false memories.

That falseness, that's deception. You are presented with a false reality. That's deception.

If archeologists dig up a building from 12,000 years ago; but the earth is only 6,000 years old and someone says that God created the earth with the appearance of decayed civilization and societies. The bones dug up in the area didn't belong to real people, the tools found near them were never used. It's like the earth has a false memory.

To create a false record, to create a false memory is to deceive.

If the animals that left behind fossils never existed, that's a deception, no different than if you didn't exist before last Thursday but have memories from before last Thursday--false memories, lies.

That's the problem with "appearance of age" arguments. It makes the Creator of the universe into a liar.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tonychanyt]

Let's pretend for a moment that you were created in a lab last Thursday.

But we are not.

Let proposition P1 = If the moon is made of cheese, then I am Elon Musk.

According to First-Order Logic, P1 is true.

The point is this: If you assume a falsehood, then logically everything is true.

 

[BurningBush84]

No, judgement takes place after the 1,000 years.

Revelation 20
The Final Judgment
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds

But you said a day is 1,000 years. So when Jesus comes to rule on earth for 1,000 years that's 365,000 days. But since a day is 1,000 years that means Christ's earthly reign will last 365 million years .

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Some Christians think that the earth is between 6000 to 15,000 years old (coinciding with the Neolithic Age). Astronomers think that it is 4.5 billion years old. Here is an attempt to resolve this incongruity.

Thank you for the discussion... very interesting.

 

[ViaCrucis]

But we are not.

Let proposition P1 = If the moon is made of cheese, then I am Elon Musk.

According to First-Order Logic, P1 is true.

The point is this: If you assume a falsehood, then logically everything is true.

Then ignore my analogy.

The point remains: Falseness is falseness. A false memory is still a false memory, a lie is still a lie. A fossil without a living organism to have given its remains to be fossilized in the first place is a lie, a falseness. A creature that never existed, but evidence of it existing is present, is a lie. A star that shines its light, but which never existed, is a lie.

If the Creator did that, then the Creator is a liar.

That's not Christianity, by definition it can't be.

Creation is true, not false. If creation is false, then we have an evil creator--that's at its very best heresy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Diamond72]

But you said a day is 1,000 years. So when Jesus comes to rule on earth for 1,000 years that's 365,000 days.

1000 years is a day. Jesus will rule and reign on the seventh day. That is the sabbath when man will rest from his works. 4000 years or 4 days from Adam to Jesus. The church age has been 2,000 years. This is called dispensations. 2,000 years or two days with no law. 2,000 years or two days under the law and 2,000 years or two days in the church age or the age of grace.

Dispensationalism is a theological framework or system of interpretation that divides human history into distinct periods or "dispensations," each characterized by a different way in which God interacts with humanity. This concept is derived from a specific interpretation of biblical passages that are believed to support the idea of distinct ages or periods in God's plan for redemption.

1. Innocence: Refers to the period from Creation to the Fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
2. Conscience: Begins with the expulsion from the Garden of Eden and ends with the Great Flood.
3. Human Government: Begins after the Flood and continues until the Tower of Babel.
4. Promise: Begins with God's call to Abraham and extends through the time of the patriarchs.
5. Law: Refers to the period when God gave the Law to Moses and the Israelites.
6. Grace (Church Age): Begins with the coming of Jesus Christ and the establishment of the Church through His death, resurrection, and ascension.
7. Kingdom: Refers to the future millennial reign of Christ on earth, as anticipated in biblical prophecies.

There is a music group called the third day. Jesus will return on the third day. Although I do not know if that is physical or symbolic. We will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years. We already take part in that future event by telling people and preparing the way.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

God's definition of a day must be different from ours.
Since the sun and moon were not present on the first, second, and third days to define what "evening" and "morning" were, then our definition of day and night, morning and evening are not the same as His.

These were done before the "lights in the firmament of the heaven "to divide day from night."
Genesis 1:
5. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
13. And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Remember, this did not happen until the forth "day":
Genesis 1:14-19 KJV
14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Therefore, the length of these days are not being determined by the rotation of the earth, the sun, or the "evening and the morning" the sun and rotation of the earth create.

Some have suggested that the "light" of the first three days was the light of the presence of. That would be difficult since the light of God never goes out so as to create a evening or night.
Just saying there is more to this that can be determined by 24 hour days.

 

[Diamond72]

God's definition of a day must be different from ours.

Our perspective of time can change significantly as we move through different stages of life. As a teenager, looking forward to the future may evoke feelings of excitement, anticipation, and possibilities, while looking back on life from a more advanced age can bring reflections, wisdom, and a broader sense of life's journey.

Gerald Schroeder writes a very nice article on the physics of time from a religious and scientific understanding.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe