How narrow is the "narrow way"?

[DaveM]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. All believers are born-again.

I guess it depends on what you call a beleiver, judging by some of your post I think you call just about anyone who claims it born again. That would be called "easy believism" and is not biblical at all

True faith in Christ will always lead to a changed life. Another common usage of the term easy believism is in regards to those who believe they’re saved because they prayed a prayer—with no real conviction of sin and no real faith in Christ. Praying a prayer is easy—thus the term easy believism—but there is more to salvation than mouthing words.

if there is no evidence of growth and good works, we have reason to doubt that salvation ever truly took place. “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:20), and a dead faith is not a saving faith.

Salvation is certainly free, but, at the same time, it costs us everything. We are to die to ourselves as we change into the likeness of Christ. Where easy believism fails is its lack of recognition that a person with faith in Jesus will lead a progressively changed life. Salvation is a free gift from God to those who believe, but discipleship and obedience are the response that will no doubt occur when one truly comes to Christ in faith.

https://www.gotquestions.org/easy-believism.html

 

[Dave L]

I guess it depends on what you call a beleiver, judging by some of your post I think you call just about anyone who claims it born again. That would be called "easy believism" and is not biblical at all

True faith in Christ will always lead to a changed life. Another common usage of the term easy believism is in regards to those who believe they’re saved because they prayed a prayer—with no real conviction of sin and no real faith in Christ. Praying a prayer is easy—thus the term easy believism—but there is more to salvation than mouthing words.

if there is no evidence of growth and good works, we have reason to doubt that salvation ever truly took place. “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:20), and a dead faith is not a saving faith.

Salvation is certainly free, but, at the same time, it costs us everything. We are to die to ourselves as we change into the likeness of Christ. Where easy believism fails is its lack of recognition that a person with faith in Jesus will lead a progressively changed life. Salvation is a free gift from God to those who believe, but discipleship and obedience are the response that will no doubt occur when one truly comes to Christ in faith.

https://www.gotquestions.org/easy-believism.html

Faith without works does not exist. Without holiness no one shall see the Lord. I'm only saying conditional salvation is the broad way that leads to destruction. Salvation by grace is the narrow way. If you think you are saved because you believe, you are in the broad way that leads to destruction. If you know you believe because God saved you, you are in the narrow way that leads to life.

 

[Dave L]

You seem to take out any responsibility on our part when you talk about receiving grace.

Let me ask you this do you think a born again Christian actually changes or remains the same when they become born again?

The New Birth is a holy nature that hates sin and would rather die than live in sin.

 

[DaveM]

Faith without works does not exist

yeap


James 2:20
Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

 

[bling]

Did you choose to believe in Christ? You must have already believed in him or you would not have chose to. And this is salvation by grace. You believe and because faith is real you act on it. But someone along the way misled you into thinking you saved yourself by choosing to believe after you already believed.

My choosing to trust in Christ's Love was because not choosing to trust in Christ's Love would have been extremely difficult (hard work) to be macho, hang in there, pay the piper and take the punishment I fully deserved. Trusting in Jesus was the easy way out (no work needed).
All mature adults trust something or someone, so all mature adults have a God given faith (ability to trust). Those who for selfish reasons (not righteous/ not worthy/ not deserving) turn their trust toward God, just hoping for some mercy/grace/charity/Love, God will shower them with gifts, but it is not because they did anything worthy of even a very small gift. Again by the Bible's definition of "work": wimping out, giving up and/or surrendering is not "work".

 

[EmSw]

Jesus was challenging the rich young ruler to try earning salvation by works. Proving that it cannot be done. If you want to earn salvation, sell all that you have and give to the poor. And take your own cross being willing to give your life for your enemies. Then you can earn salvation.

Jesus did not challenge the man in anything. Jesus told the man words of life.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Man scoffs at Jesus' words of life. The natural man has no comprehension of the life in His words. It was not proven it cannot be done. The natural man cannot, nor even wants to keep His commandments. Those who say His commandments can't be kept, are those who do not want to keep them.

If you knew what the passages say, instead of adding what you think is there, you would know selling all that the man had and giving to the poor, was to be perfect, not to enter life. To enter life, Jesus said to keep the commandments. Nowhere does any commandment say to sell all you have and give to the poor. You are adding your own words to say selling all you have is to earn salvation.

As far as taking our own cross, this is exactly what Jesus told us to do. But again, natural man has an aversion to Jesus' words of life. Why do you not believe what Jesus said and do them?

But the gospel is that Jesus did this for us. Do you believe this? If so God saved you. If you make salvation conditional, you save yourself through your own self-righteousness.

No, I do not believe this. Jesus never said He went to the cross for us, taking up our cross for us.

If you make salvation unconditional, you are making it a universal salvation, and you a universalist.

 

[hedrick]

The typical definition of grace as "unmerited favor" is really a symptom and continuation of the tendency born in Catholicism to both quantify the grace of God as well as consider everything through a heavily legalistic lens.

I believe calling grace unmerited favor is a reasonable definition. What's unusual in the Catholic tradition isn't that definition, but talking about it as if it were a thing that is present or absent in a person. The definition treats it as an attributed of God.

 

[EmSw]

Did you choose to believe in Christ? You must have already believed in him or you would not have chose to. And this is salvation by grace. You believe and because faith is real you act on it. But someone along the way misled you into thinking you saved yourself by choosing to believe after you already believed.

Have you yet chosen to believe in Jesus and His words of life? Belief is not some magical, hocus-pocus formula. It is substantial and one always chooses to believe. Maybe this is the reason those who choose not to believe Jesus, will believe anything.

 

[Ron Gurley]

James 2:22 (NASB)...spirit-led faith and works go hand -in-hand !
22 You see that faith was working with his (Abraham's) works,
and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; (matured)

 

[~Anastasia~]

I believe calling grace unmerited favor is a reasonable definition. What's unusual in the Catholic tradition isn't that definition, but talking about it as if it were a thing that is present or absent in a person. The definition treats it as an attributed of God.

I know that's what many folks have settled on as a common understanding.

I was only offering another perspective and one that has had widespread support among a significant portion of Christianity.

And one I've found very helpful in my actual practice and experience of faith. Grace is more dynamic and more personal when it is understood in a sense to be God Himself toward us - rather than any "thing" at all.

In case it proves helpful to anyone.

 

[Dave L]

Have you yet chosen to believe in Jesus and His words of life? Belief is not some magical, hocus-pocus formula. It is substantial and one always chooses to believe. Maybe this is the reason those who choose not to believe Jesus, will believe anything.

If God conditions salvation on your choosing to believe, you end up saving yourself through your own self-righteous act of the will. You not only rob God of his glory in salvation, you give some of it to yourself. This is not biblical faith or salvation.

Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You must already have the Holy Spirit before you can believe. And “The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children.” (Romans 8:16)

It is because we have the Holy Spirit that we believe. You cannot decide to believe with your mind apart from first experiencing salvation in your heart. But many are misled thinking their choice to believe with the mind led to the faith in their heart. The biblical faith that preceded it.

 

[Dave L]

Jesus did not challenge the man in anything. Jesus told the man words of life.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Man scoffs at Jesus' words of life. The natural man has no comprehension of the life in His words. It was not proven it cannot be done. The natural man cannot, nor even wants to keep His commandments. Those who say His commandments can't be kept, are those who do not want to keep them.

If you knew what the passages say, instead of adding what you think is there, you would know selling all that the man had and giving to the poor, was to be perfect, not to enter life. To enter life, Jesus said to keep the commandments. Nowhere does any commandment say to sell all you have and give to the poor. You are adding your own words to say selling all you have is to earn salvation.

As far as taking our own cross, this is exactly what Jesus told us to do. But again, natural man has an aversion to Jesus' words of life. Why do you not believe what Jesus said and do them?



No, I do not believe this. Jesus never said He went to the cross for us, taking up our cross for us.

If you make salvation unconditional, you are making it a universal salvation, and you a universalist.

The apostles asked "who then can be saved" if this is what it takes? The law cannot save. Consider what Paul says about it: “For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20)

So Jesus proved to the rich young ruler how sinful and lost he really was.

 

[Dave L]

My choosing to trust in Christ's Love was because not choosing to trust in Christ's Love would have been extremely difficult (hard work) to be macho, hang in there, pay the piper and take the punishment I fully deserved. Trusting in Jesus was the easy way out (no work needed).
All mature adults trust something or someone, so all mature adults have a God given faith (ability to trust). Those who for selfish reasons (not righteous/ not worthy/ not deserving) turn their trust toward God, just hoping for some mercy/grace/charity/Love, God will shower them with gifts, but it is not because they did anything worthy of even a very small gift. Again by the Bible's definition of "work": wimping out, giving up and/or surrendering is not "work".

All of this is works if you turn the gospel into law, and make salvation conditional.

 

[EmSw]

If God conditions salvation on your choosing to believe, you end up saving yourself through your own self-righteous act of the will. You not only rob God of his glory in salvation, you give some of it to yourself. This is not biblical faith or salvation.

How is choosing a self-righteous act? Choosing does not rob God of His glory. Why not go a day without choosing anything. You become like a lifeless stump of a tree.

Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You must already have the Holy Spirit before you can believe. And “The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children.” (Romans 8:16)

How can one believe what the Spirit teaches without faith? How can one receive the Spirit without faith? Biblical faith is the internal acknowledgment of truth.

It is because we have the Holy Spirit that we believe. You cannot decide to believe with your mind apart from first experiencing salvation in your heart. But many are misled thinking their choice to believe with the mind led to the faith in their heart. The biblical faith that preceded it.

The Spirit is not received until after believing.

John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

And one cannot experience salvation without believing.

 

[Dave L]

How is choosing a self-righteous act? Choosing does not rob God of His glory. Why not go a day without choosing anything. You become like a lifeless stump of a tree.



How can one believe what the Spirit teaches without faith? How can one receive the Spirit without faith? Biblical faith is the internal acknowledgment of truth.



The Spirit is not received until after believing.

John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

And one cannot experience salvation without believing.

According to the above, you think salvation is by works and not grace. Because if God offers salvation for obedience, then choosing to render obedience, in this case, choosing to believe, is a work of the will.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit which a person must already have, as a gift of Grace, before they can believe.

 

[EmSw]

The apostles asked "who then can be saved" if this is what it takes? The law cannot save. Consider what Paul says about it: “For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20)

So Jesus proved to the rich young ruler how sinful and lost he really was.

Zacharias and Elizabeth were declared righteous before God by the works of the law.

If the law cannot save, how were OT saints saved? Show us any OT passages which state how they received life. I'll give you this passage from Ezekiel to show how they received life.

Ezekiel 18:21
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

 

[Dave L]

Zacharias and Elizabeth were declared righteous before God by the works of the law.

If the law cannot save, how were OT saints saved? Show us any OT passages which state how they received life. I'll give you this passage from Ezekiel to show how they received life.

Ezekiel 18:21
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

“I do not set aside God’s grace, because if righteousness could come through the law, then Christ died for nothing!” (Galatians 2:21)

“You who are trying to be declared righteous by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace!” (Galatians 5:4)

 

[EmSw]

According to the above, you think salvation is by works and not grace. Because if God offers salvation for obedience, then choosing to render obedience, in this case, choosing to believe, is a work of the will.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit which a person must already have, as a gift of Grace, before they can believe.

All salvation is of grace.

As far as salvation by obedience, have you not read the following?

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

It does not say 'unto all them who do nothing'. It says 'unto all them that OBEY HIM'.

How do you propose Jesus is the author of salvation without obeying Him?

 

[EmSw]

“I do not set aside God’s grace, because if righteousness could come through the law, then Christ died for nothing!” (Galatians 2:21)

“You who are trying to be declared righteous by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace!” (Galatians 5:4)

Zacharias and Elizabeth did not set aside God's grace, they live in His grace.

Do you believe they were righteous before God?

 

[EmSw]

“I do not set aside God’s grace, because if righteousness could come through the law, then Christ died for nothing!” (Galatians 2:21)

“You who are trying to be declared righteous by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace!” (Galatians 5:4)

I notice you didn't have a comment on Ezekiel 18:21. Is there a reason?