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100% fulfilled.
Even Jesus' supernatural return and the end of the old covenant age - the last day- great epoch change of eternal life, the "age to come" in scripture.
lol When did Jesus come back?
lol When did Jesus come back?
During the Jewish/Roman war. He returned in the clouds over Israel for judgment.
That was the "sign of His coming" the apostles asked about in Matt24.
Jesus is here.
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. (Rev3:20)
Matthew 24 :29 teaches that Jesus would make his presence known once again IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation that those in the holy city of Jerusalem who did not leave the city as Jesus instructed them to do, (Matt. 24:15) were subjected to at its destruction in 70 A. D. . At that time the Roman armies razed the city, and burnt the holy temple to the ground. Josephus, the Jewish historian who lived through this terrible siege wrote about the terrible atrocities which occurred at that time. It was not pretty, to say the least.
Matt 24
29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [r]the sky, and the powers of [s]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [t]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
1. Tribulation is yet to come. See Revelation.
2. The moon still gives its light and the stars have not fallen.
3. The Son of Man has not yet appear in the sky for ALL to see.
4. The tribes of the Earth are yet to mourn (only the Jews mourned the loss of the temple).
5. No great trumpet from Heaven yet.
6. The angels have not gathered the elect from the four winds.
Josephus, and other Roman writers, wrote about the destruction of Jerusalem. They also wrote about the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 ad. NONE wrote about Jesus return in the clouds or any other event that is part of His second coming. Jesus has not yet returned.
All those prophecies were figuratively described. Just as prophesies occurred in the OT.
"stars" etc, in the prophetic are not the literal stars.
I have work for several hours today. I will be back hopefully this afternoon on here.
Yes, there were celestial signs above Judea of His coming which both the Roman and Jewish historians recorded. However, we didn't have a believer in Christ in the city to make the connection.
The Bar Kokhba rebellion was doomed to failure from the beginning, because Christ's reign had already been established for the aeons, 65 years earlier, at the Consummation of the Eschaton (in 70). Bar Kokhba and his men were trapped under the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ from the very day they were conceived.
Their fruitless rebellion belongs in the same category as the incident that took place after Emperor Julian (361 - 363) actually attempted to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem for the express purpose of discrediting Jesus' prophecy that not one stone of the Temple would be left standing on another. When Julian's plan was announced, Jews from all over came to Judea with funds to contribute to the project. To their consternation, the work was abruptly terminated.
The Pagan historian Ammianus Marcellinus related what happened:
"[Julian] planned at vast cost to restore the once splendid Temple at Jerusalem. ....He had entrusted the speedy performance of this work to Alypius of Antioch... But though this Alypius pushed the work on with vigor, aided by the governor of the province, terrible balls of fire kept bursting forth near the foundations of the Temple and made the place inaccessible to the workmen, some of whom were burned to death; and since in this way the element persistently repelled them, the enterprise halted" (Ammianus Marcellinus: XXIII; 1; 1-3)
The rebels under Bar Kokhba, like Julian, were wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked, and simply did not know it (Rev. 3:17). In their endevours to restore the old things that God Himself had brought to an eternal end, they were sealing their fate as those who were in abject, spiritual destitution, confirming that they had never been clothed with God's true, eternal Temple that had come down from Heaven.
The prophecy of Zech. 14:16-19 specifically applies to such men and their followers:
"Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths" (Zech. 14:16-19)
The "Gospel of Matthew" and "Revelation" represent two different religions, and I am careful not to confuse the two. "Matthew" was finished post apacolypse, but speaks of that apocalypse as a future event, a common ancient literary motif. This was used to elevate the central character, in this case Jesus, to the status of a seer or prophet, knowing things that were beyond the knowledge of the religious institution that was shown as the central antagonist.
This would be inconsistent with fulfilled prophesy since you probably accept fulfilled prophesy as valid but seem to allegorize unfulfilled prophesy. Prophesies occurred literally in the OT. Let me remind you that God does not lie.
Supposition. Secondly, the moon still has its light and "every eye" has not seen Him (Rev. 1:7).
No problem.
Firsst, when copying and pasting from other sites it is required that you provide the link, otherwise it is plagiarism. The site where you copied and pasted this portion of your answer is: Questions, Questions, Questions
Secondly, the quote for Marcellinus is wrongly attributed. Marcellinus wrote in the 4th century and Alypius of Antioch also lived in the 4th century. Alypius was commissioned by emperor Julian in 363 ad to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as a means to stifle the continual growth of Christianity but the project was abandoned when Julian was killed that same year.
Third, Rev. 3:17 was written to the Church of Laodicea not to the church of Jerusalem.
Fourth, Zechariah 14 poses no association to the Bar Kokhba rebellion. In fact, if the writers of the preterist website that you used want to use Zechariah 14 then they have to content with verse 9 which they happily omitted.
9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.
1. The Lord is not yet king over all the Earth.
2. In that day- is a common phrase throughout scripture referring to the end days.
3. The Lord is not yet he only one and His name is not yet the only one is all of the Earth.
I can see your mind is made up when one offers hostile reactions about technical "plagiarisms" that I only quoted in bold. Well excuse moi!
But that's a weak defense, if any at all! Too obvious that the facts of my post won't be debated, only distracting arguments about irrelevant issues.
Jesus will never return to earth to be a king on an earthly throne. He would have done that in his first advent, but he didn't (Jn,6:15)
His kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. His "enemies" were from natural Israel who denied their Messiah. They were the synagogue of Satan.
The new heaven and earth came, just as Peter stated.
The New Jerusalem (church universal) is where the righteous in Christ dwell.
And the Jerusalem above is spiritual and the "mother of us all."
There's nothing else Jesus needs to do in prophecy.
Jesus won't come to destroy any more "enemies"
Judgment is set if we die in our sins.
But praise the Lord that Christ became sin for those who believe!
I say preach the Good News of salvation in Christ.
After all, whose waiting for a relationship with Him?
I am satisfied in my salvation. This gentile is full and complete in Him.
I think all Christians should be.
Hentenza said:Matt 24
29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [r]the sky, and the powers ofthe heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [t]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
1. Tribulation is yet to come. See Revelation.
2. The moon still gives its light and the stars have not fallen.
3. The Son of Man has not yet appear in the sky for ALL to see.
4. The tribes of the Earth are yet to mourn (only the Jews mourned the loss of the temple).
5. No great trumpet from Heaven yet.
6. The angels have not gathered the elect from the four winds.
Josephus, and other Roman writers, wrote about the destruction of Jerusalem. They also wrote about the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 ad. NONE wrote about Jesus return in the clouds or any other event that is part of His second coming. Jesus has not yet returned.
Both the Gospel of Matthew and Revelation are written by apostles and are of the same religion.
The writing dates are approximately 50 ad for Matthew and 95 as for Revelation.
Both the Gospel of Matthew and Revelation are written by apostles and are of the same religion. The writing dates are approximately 50 ad for Matthew and 95 as for Revelation.
That may be true of the book which is called Matthew, but not true for the book which is called Revelation. We know that it was written prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.
We know that the "treading of the holy city under foot by the Gentiles was undoubtedly fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans (Gentiles) did just that.Revelation 11:1. "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
Actually the siege began in 66 A.D. .
The siege ended in 70 A.D. with the sacking of the city and the destruction of its holy Temple.
Originally Posted by Hammster
MOD HAT ON
I am moving this to Unorthodox Theology. Since the OP voted for a full preterist position, and that is not allowed in GT, it will be moved as to not generate any reports of Statement of Faith, and rules, violations. Thank you for your support.
MOD HAT OFF
HUH?
I didn't think those that believe Matt 24 as being fulfilled were considered "full preterists".
I thought only those that viewed ALL of Revelation fulfilled were considered full preterists. Can you please explain? Thanks
I am protesting this thread being moved to the unorthodox board
Mat. 24:31 was fulfilled in 325 AD when St. Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered the elect of all the Church together, to Nicea.Matthew 24:30 will occur at the same time as the never-fulfilled Matthew 24:29 and Matthew 24:31.
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