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Rom 15:*snip*
Now, in their historical context, I need to check to see whether the Israelites were able to reconsitute the kingdom of Israel after the Assyrian conquest.
Umm...did you happen to see how he votedWhoa! Calm down. Chill. It wasn't clear to me that this was your argument. From the context, I thought you were arguing in support of the position that Matthew 24 had been fulfilled. .
For that particular detail, probably not. It serves a theological purpose for Luke.Is the record in the Gospel of Luke in error then?
I consider this type of exegesis extremely dangerous and flawed. You can't retrodict a separate context from Galatians back to Isaiah. The 2 books are talking about different subjects and ripping a single verse out of context from Galatians to make Isaiah look like he wasn't talking about the real, earthly city of Jerusalem is, (how do I say this politely?) telling something that is less than truthful.Is Jerusalem above or below?
Gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Sorry, but the Assyria Isaiah is talking about doesn't exist anymore. And actually, the Wiki article says that ancient Assyria was based in what is today northern Iraq.
The same problem with out of context I noted above. Paul's revelation happened to him alone. No one else (and there were several in his party) saw the light. No one else in Damascus saw the light. So, when you take the entire context, that event can't be the "fulfillment" of the prophecy.Isa 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Acts 22:6
And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Again, out of context. What "now" is Jesus speaking about? His time. Isaiah talks about a time when there is no violence, doesn't it?Matt 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
*snip*
..Do we require oil?....
You believe this "particular detail" is in error if taken at face value then?For that particular detail, probably not. It serves a theological purpose for Luke.
In speaking of earthy Jerusalem;I consider this type of exegesis extremely dangerous and flawed. You can't retrodict a separate context from Galatians back to Isaiah. The 2 books are talking about different subjects and ripping a single verse out of context from Galatians to make Isaiah look like he wasn't talking about the real, earthly city of Jerusalem is, (how do I say this politely?) telling something that is less than truthful.
Same dif, as they are both oil states.Sorry, but the Assyria Isaiah is talking about doesn't exist anymore. And actually, the Wiki article says that ancient Assyria was based in what is today northern Iraq.So no, we are not enslaved to Assyria. We are not even "enslaved" to the oil producing states in the MidEast. Needing oil does not = "enslaved".
2 Cor 4:1-7The same problem with out of context I noted above. Paul's revelation happened to him alone. No one else (and there were several in his party) saw the light. No one else in Damascus saw the light. So, when you take the entire context, that event can't be the "fulfillment" of the prophecy.
The sun is to be our light no longer, rather Christ.Also note that Paul is saying that the sun is still shining.
And Jesus tells us that time is now.Again, out of context. What "now" is Jesus speaking about? His time. Isaiah talks about a time when there is no violence, doesn't it?
Eph 1:21-23So, if you think Matthew 24 has already been fulfilled, where is the Son of Man?
This was written to show that we are to inherit the promises not the people of Cain.Is the record in the Gospel of Luke in error then? Did the earth shake, were the Patriarchs scattered?
Is Jerusalem above or below?
Gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Matt 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
I don't want sound picky, but I would suggest if you are Christian, you should sport a Christian Seeker icon.After 53 pages of theophilosophical debate, can any of you cite a specific example of something that you learned from someone else in this thread? Quote, name and link, please.
That is, I wonder
Are you a seeker of truth and wisdom?
Or are you a seeker of pride and ego?
Interesting point, Mr Eye. I should point out that when using our quote function, a little blue arrow pops up, which takes you to the quoted post. Thus a link is not necessary. It also provides the poster name.
Note your shared evasion of the question.I don't want sound picky, but I would suggest if you are Christian, you should sport a Christian Seeker icon.
I also noticed you haven't voted yetNote your shared evasion of the question.
Pride and the acquisition of wisdom are mutually exclusive, for wisdom begets pride, and pride begets ignorance.
Pride must be fought into eternity, for as you subdue it, you gain wisdom, but as you gain a little wisdom—piece by piece—pride sneaks upon you again for another round of battle.
If you can subdue pride eternally, you shall soon enter into eternal wisdom.
Sounds to me like you make wisdom a thing to be obtained, rather than grasped;Note your shared evasion of the question.
Pride and the acquisition of wisdom are mutually exclusive, for wisdom begets pride, and pride begets ignorance.
Pride must be fought into eternity, for as you subdue it, you gain wisdom, but as you gain a little wisdompiece by piecepride sneaks upon you again for another round of battle.
If you can subdue pride eternally, you shall soon enter into eternal wisdom.
Heb 13:8Heavenly wisdom is that which has been and always will be
1 John 2:10yet is shrouded by the emanations of the self-willed and the subsequent perversion of priority amidst the earthly realm.
I'm only quoting the Apostle Paul;Wisdom is neither obtained nor grasped—
Isa 42:19it is a thing to be heard with the Ears and seen with the Eyes,
My Father does not want me to stop speaking with Him. He desires for me to speak with Him regarding all things. This is the Spirit of Christ in me, leaning on my Heavenly Father.but to do that, we must stop speaking and open-wide our eyes.
I said no such thing;You're absolutely right: no mortal man may drink of it—
Heb 9:8that is why the man within must bear his own cross and die, in order to become a vessel for the Spirit.
I agree.This was written to show that we are to inherit the promises not the people of Cain.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
I believe I answered to this already in the post you are quoting. Through unbelief men do many, many, terrible things, not of God.Do nations still wage war?
Matt 12:28The heavenly Jerusalem is coming to earth from above.
Note the usage of the grammar above; "ye ARE come", present tense.Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 11:39Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
Isa 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
[/COLOR][/FONT]The USA is no longer a godly nation and that was God's way of starting to tear it down when they pay more attention to Gaddafi and Libia, than they do to the Bombimg and massacres in Israel. [/SIZE]Strong's G[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]3799 όψη όψονται οψις οψεσθε face, countenance, view, visage, sight look, obverse, semblance, view with wide open eyes; when he shall appear It is not set up yet because God shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms,
iron The reference, therefore, seems to be to the blending of the Christianized Roman empire with the pagan nations, a deterioration being the result.
Christians, are taught to submit to the powers that be, so that it must be dealt by Christ Himself at His coming again. JFB
Isa 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
1Co 15:24 Then the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom
which shall not be destroyed.
lucaspa said:So you are saying we get to ignore this part of the prophecy? That these things don't have to come true before the prophecy is fulfilled?
If that is the case, then Jesus is only referring to the destruction of the Temple, but then, his disciples don't think so
It has been asked, if Jesus came at that time, where is he now? The answer to that, is that his coming, or presense
(parousia ) was not a physical, flesh and blood presence, for Jesus no longer has an earthly body, but has moved into a spiritual body which cannot be seen with earthly eyes. But he is present with us, as his spiritual presence abides in the hearts and minds of his people, teaching us, and leading us along the paths of righteousness as we shed this mortal body and sink into immortality.
Have you inherited the EARTH? You are very confused.I agree.
Now, please allow me to ask, rhetorically, are we now the children of God, or only later, at the second coming of Christ? Is He our Light and Life now, or only later?
If I'm in error I trust my Father to put me on the good path, again.Have you inherited the EARTH? You are very confused.
Do we strive [to enter in] while we are alive or dead?Luk 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Do we wait upon the Lord while we are alive or dead?Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Present tense, check the greek1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Present tense. Check the greekJoh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Were the virgins not purchasing their oil while the bridgroom taried?Mat 25:3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Matt 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
IF thou continue in His Goodness?Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
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