How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

[LittleLambofJesus]

OK I did that.

Thank you. So you are a Partial Preterist and therefore view 2 different Parousia events in Matt 24? Just curious.

http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html

*snip*

one view holds that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On],
and another that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off].

Here is a quote from Gentry (this is an example of switch on)

Contextual evidence suggests that Christ is distinguishing two different comings [in Matthew 24-25]. One coming is his coming upon Jerusalem in temporal judgment to end the old covenant era; the other is his coming at the Second Advent in final judgment to end history (24:36ff).

These two “comings” are theologically related while historically distinct. (emphasis in original) Kenneth Gentry, Perilous Times ,88-91

So in Gentry's mind the parousia of Matt. 24:27 (because it occurs before v. 36) is a metaphorical judgment coming at AD 70 and the parousia of Matt 24:37 and 39 is the literal end of time Second Advent. For my money, it would be very strange indeed if Jesus was changing what he meant by his parousia midway through the Olivet Discourse.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I didn't want to put this on the Eschatology board as there is not many posting over there.

Hey!! I'm over there. That's all you need LOL!!!

The question I want to ask those Christian here on CF is how much of Matthew 24 and the Olivet Discourse do you view a fulfilled.

I hope I gave the right options and I am really hoping to get some input on others here on it. Thank you and God bless

Good choice of topic my brother I voted "partly" fulfilled. I believe that we are very close to the end of the beginning of sorrows. All of the things listed in verse 7 up to verse 5 are still going on and have for over 2000 years. Verses 9 and down haven't happened yet, but I believe that they will transpire in this generation. If you didn't understand that, everything above verse 8 Jesus said that these are the beginning of sorrows, not verse 9 down.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus I didn't want to put this on the Eschatology board as there is not many posting over there.

Hey!! I'm over there. That's all you need LOL!!!

.

I originally had it on the GT board which is fairly active most times.
Because I voted ALL fulfilled, they moved it to this board instead of to the Eschatology board .
No worries tho.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923-21/#post52748967

 

[it'sme]

Thank you. So you are a Partial Preterist and therefore view 2 different Parousia events in Matt 24? Just curious.

Well, the bible was written about the people of that time but is for the people of this time. Plus many of the prophecies in the bible come right down to our day and are fulfilled in the time of the end. Right down to governments that are here now.

 

[it'sme]

Good choice of topic my brother

I voted "partly" fulfilled. I believe that we are very close to the end of the beginning of sorrows. All of the things listed in verse 7 up to verse 5 are still going on and have for over 2000 years. Verses 9 and down haven't happened yet, but I believe that they will transpire in this generation. If you didn't understand that, everything above verse 8 Jesus said that these are the beginning of sorrows, not verse 9 down.

Some of the prophecy's started to be fulfilled , just after Jesus day. But some of them are for our day. But it is interesting that Jesus did not know the day or the hour , but only Jehovah.

 

[visionary]

I too am for partially fulfilled..

I see the gospel reaching the end of the earth... even the bible society can give us a clear indication of how many tribes of earth the gospel has not yet reached.

I am now waiting for the rest of the story to unfold before our eyes in a full measure, not samples here and there.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I too am for partially fulfilled..

I see the gospel reaching the end of the earth... even the bible society can give us a clear indication of how many tribes of earth the gospel has not yet reached.

I am now waiting for the rest of the story to unfold before our eyes in a full measure, not samples here and there.

Thank you visionary

Do you believe that event in Matt 24/Olivet Discourse is the same one showing in Revelation [as I believe it is]? And how much of it do you view as fulfilled?
Thanks

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey!! I'm over there. That's all you need LOL!!!

Good choice of topic my brother I voted "partly" fulfilled. I believe that we are very close to the end of the beginning of sorrows. All of the things listed in verse 7 up to verse 5 are still going on and have for over 2000 years.
Verses 9 and down haven't happened yet, but I believe that they will transpire in this generation. If you didn't understand that, everything above verse 8 Jesus said that these are the beginning of sorrows, not verse 9 down.

Thank you, and that is an interesting view and much different from a lot of Partial Preterists which view it as fulfilled up to vs 34 or 36.

http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html

*snip*

Bait and Switch?

There are two primary camps within preterism on this issue:

one view holds that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On],
and another that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off].

 

[visionary]

Thank you visionary

Do you believe that event in Matt 24/Olivet Discourse is the same one showing in Revelation [as I believe it is]? And how much of it do you view as fulfilled?
Thanks

I am again partial fulfillment...

The Prophecy again.. when the scroll is fully eaten in Rev 10.. indicates that it will be repeated... and I think all of it in rapid order.. now that you get the gist of it from that which has happened in the past.. God is not going to have all of it past.. and leave us nothing for His Word for our future.. and what we can expect in these last days.

 

[it'sme]

Matthew24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. 15 “Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) 16 then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains

This good news is being preached now and is in all counties in the world. If you notice here it says 'of the kingdom' ( this means this message is about God's government, and that it has been established now) What this means is that Jesus has come for the second time and that before that happened the earth was not ruled by God but by Satan. That is why Armageddon happens and is needed. To get rid of Satan and God will take over.

In verse 15 “Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place,
This disgusting thing that causes desolation , is referring to the United Nations, and the reason that is so is that it sets itself up to bring peace to the world,but does not. The reason God calls it disgusting is that the only way peace will come to mankind is through God himself.The governments of the world are all part of Satan's system of things, and has caused all the wars and trouble from man. So it is disgusting to think that Satan's rulership could or would do this. in verse 16 it says let all those in Ju‧de′a ( which means God chosen people) flee to the mountains. the term mountains refers to Jehovah's government. So this is simply saying God's people in the time of the end will flee to God's government which is established in heaven ( Jesus coming on the clouds) So there are people on this earth in every country that take no part in any worldly government, either in support of or vote for or get involved in the wars. These ones are doing the preaching work that is to be done in the time of the end. Matthew 24:14. This has to happen just before the end.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]These ones are doing the preaching work that is to be done in the time of the end. Matthew 24:14. This has to happen just before the end.

The preaching work was being done hundreds of years before Russell and the WTBS. Years before Russell and the WTBS printed their 1st pamphlet, my and other denominations were preaching all over the world.

 

[it'sme]

The preaching work was being done hundreds of years before Russell and the WTBS. Years before Russell and the WTBS printed their 1st pamphlet, my and other denominations were preaching all over the world.

This is a preaching work for the speciafic purpose of the end (Armageddon)
Like Noah would have done at the time just before the flood. It was a specific warning.

 

[Der Alte]

This is a preaching work for the speciafic purpose of the end (Armageddon)
Like Noah would have done at the time just before the flood. It was a specific warning.

Russell did NOT invent "preaching work for the specific purpose of the end." Christianity has been preaching that since 90 AD when the NT was completed. As I have said repeatedly the only thing JWs do are go house to house and pass out literature while they ignore everything else Jesus said such as Matt 25:31-46. Please don't insult my intelligence with your made up explanation that they just don't boast about it and that is why nobody knows about it. That dog don't hunt! In almost every one of your posts you are boasting about how JWs are the only ones preaching from house to house, as you have done here.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Russell did NOT invent "preaching work for the specific purpose of the end." Christianity has been preaching that since 90 AD when the NT was completed. As I have said repeatedly the only thing JWs do are go house to house and pass out literature while they ignore everything else Jesus said such as Matt 25:31-46. Please don't insult my intelligence with your made up explanation that they just don't boast about it and that is why nobody knows about it. That dog don't hunt! In almost every one of your posts you are boasting about how JWs are the only ones preaching from house to house, as you have done here.

Thank you for you input.
What would your vote be then? Thanks

 

[it'sme]

Russell did NOT invent "preaching work for the specific purpose of the end." Christianity has been preaching that since 90 AD when the NT was completed. As I have said repeatedly the only thing JWs do are go house to house and pass out literature while they ignore everything else Jesus said such as Matt 25:31-46. Please don't insult my intelligence with your made up explanation that they just don't boast about it and that is why nobody knows about it. That dog don't hunt! In almost every one of your posts you are boasting about how JWs are the only ones preaching from house to house, as you have done here.

I have never had anyone come to my door to talk about the end of this system of things. I have had the Mormon twice, ( but no one else)

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
The kingdom means God's government, that finally will come to the earth.

Ps. 37:9, 11: “Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth. . . . The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.”

Matt. 6:10: “Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”
Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”

The churches tell people they are going to heaven and there is an after life when you die. But the bible does not say that. There is no after life, and the purpose for man was the earth and still is.
The kingdom we are talking about here is the earth. That means getting rid of Satan as the ruler and Jesus taking over, this rule of the earth.


Matthew 23:15 “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge‧hen′na twice as much so as yourselves.

The Pharisees were the leaders of God's chosen nation, and this is what the bible says of them. Today the chosen 'nation' Christendom, has done the same thing.

This is a totally different message , that is preached before the end.

Jesus went right to the people with the Kingdom message, teaching them publicly and in their homes. (Mt 5:1; 9:10, 28, 35)

Acts 5:42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus

 

[Der Alte]

I have never had anyone come to my door to talk about the end of this system of things. I have had the Mormon twice, ( but no one else)

You are one person. What you may or may not have seen does NOT prove anything about the thousands of churches which are not close enough to your house to visit. And it may be that most people in your neighborhood know that you are a JW and will NOT listen to anything but what the WTBS tells you to read and follow<period> End of story.

And FYI I have been living at my current address for about 2 years and I have been visited by a JW twice. All she did was hand me a piece of paper and walk away. That ain't preaching! But I'd lay odds that she reported it as "hours preaching."

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
The kingdom means God's government, that finally will come to the earth.

The kingdom means kingdom, stop trying to change the word of God! How many foreign countries have you "preached" in? A few years ago I was privileged to be invited to preach at the Christian church closest to the border with the most reclusive nation in the world.

Ps. 37:9, 11: &#8220;Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth. . . . The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.&#8221;

Matt. 6:10: &#8220;Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.&#8221;

Ps. 37:29: &#8220;The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.&#8221;

And that means all Christians who have been preaching for 100s of years before the WTBS.

The churches tell people they are going to heaven and there is an after life when you die. But the bible does not say that. There is no after life, and the purpose for man was the earth and still is.

Then God and Jesus are liars because both spoke about the dead in Sheol/Hades moving, having, knowledge, and speaking. You have made no cogent attempt to address this except to make some vague comment about "symbolic." How can a pagan lie be used by God and Jesus to symbolize anything in his perfect realm?

Matthew 23:15 &#8220;Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge&#8231;hen&#8242;na twice as much so as yourselves.

The Pharisees were the leaders of God's chosen nation, and this is what the bible says of them. Today the chosen 'nation' Christendom, has done the same thing.

What is this child of Gehenna Jesus was talking about? Everybody dies. What did the scribes and Pharisees have to do with that?

No it actually the followers of the WTBS who teach a message which never existed before 1875. They boast about going door to door, count their hours like trophies, but they ignore everything else in the NT.

This is a totally different message , that is preached before the end.

Jesus went right to the people with the Kingdom message, teaching them publicly and in their homes. (Mt 5:1; 9:10, 28, 35)

Acts 5:42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus

I have been doing that since before most people posting here were born.

 

[Der Alte]

Thank you for you input.
What would your vote be then? Thanks

I don't know I haven't studied it enough to form an opinion.

 

[it'sme]

You are one person. What you may or may not have seen does NOT prove anything about the thousands of churches which are not close enough to your house to visit. And it may be that most people in your neighborhood know that you are a JW and will NOT listen to anything but what the WTBS tells you to read and follow<period> End of story.

And FYI I have been living at my current address for about 2 years and I have been visited by a JW twice. All she did was hand me a piece of paper and walk away. That ain't preaching! But I'd lay odds that she reported it as "hours preaching."

We are known for trying to talk to ones that will listen , most people just try to get rid of us at the door, at that least that is true in North America, but not really true in many other places. And Der Alter if you talked to ones at the door the same way you do here , you wouldn't get many people calling back.
I only quoted what the bible says about the preaching work.

The kingdom means kingdom, stop trying to change the word of God! How many foreign countries have you "preached" in? A few years ago I was privileged to be invited to preach at the Christian church closest to the border with the most reclusive nation in the world.

I have asked a number of times if you would like to tell me what you did in this. I am just interested. I know other churches send out missionaries , to other places, I was just wondering what you did and where.

And that means all Christians who have been preaching for 100s of years before the WTBS.

Yes I know this, but I was talking about the last days and the message preached. The bible compares the last days to the time of Noah, when he preached and built the Ark. People had to be part of that , to be saved at that time. That was a specific thing for those 40 years.

2 Peter 2:5 and he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people; 6 and by reducing the cities Sod&#8242;om and Go&#8231;mor&#8242;rah to ashes he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come;

Matthew 24:37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

I don't know I haven't studied it enough to form an opinion.

Are you talking about Matthew 24. Or do not think there will be a second coming of Jesus ?

 

[Der Alte]

We are known for trying to talk to ones that will listen , most people just try to get rid of us at the door, at that least that is true in North America, but not really true in many other places. And Der Alter if you talked to ones at the door the same way you do here , you wouldn't get many people calling back.
I only quoted what the bible says about the preaching work.

The JW lady who visited me twice. Rang the doorbell, I opened the door, said, "Yes, may I help you." She handed me a small piece of paper with some images and printing on both sides, said "Here is some information about . . . " and walked away. You may have been quoting the Bible but you always imply or even state that only JWs are doing the "preaching work."

I have asked a number of times if you would like to tell me what you did in this. I am just interested. I know other churches send out missionaries , to other places, I was just wondering what you did and where.

I was not officially a missionary although I am a "missionary" everywhere I go. I was a bean counter with a large organization for 10 years in the far east, '98-'08. My health dictated that I retire. I gave you a hint of the country in my previous post.

Yes I know this, but I was talking about the last days and the message preached. The bible compares the last days to the time of Noah, when he preached and built the Ark. People had to be part of that , to be saved at that time. That was a specific thing for those 40 years.

2 Peter 2:5 and he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people; 6 and by reducing the cities Sod&#8242;om and Go&#8231;mor&#8242;rah to ashes he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come;

Before you continue repeating the false accusation WTBS has taught you about what Christian churches do and do not do, I suggest you check out some churches and see what it is exactly that they preach. Real easy, google "sermons."

Matthew 24:37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Are you talking about Matthew 24. Or do not think there will be a second coming of Jesus ?

That refers to the survey questions at the top of this thread. I don't have an opinion about the questions. Just off the top of my head I think I lean toward partial.

 

[it'sme]

I was not officially a missionary although I am a "missionary" everywhere I go. I was a bean counter with a large organization for 10 years in the far east, '98-'08. My health dictated that I retire. I gave you a hint of the country in my previous post.

Yes I did read this but, there are a lot of countries and a lot of borders. But now we are getting closer, by you saying the far east. And you are right if preaching where ever you go you are a missionary. When it comes to the preaching work we don't boast about it, because, that is what God says were all should do. But you don't have to go to another place to do it, you can do it at home also.
Yes I know what health can do.

That refers to the survey questions at the top of this thread. I don't have an opinion about the questions. Just off the top of my head I think I lean toward partial.

Yes OK . Do you have any idea's on what you think still needs to be fulfilled?