• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured How Messed Up Are People?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Totally Messed Up (Augustine, Calvin)

    15 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. Partly Messed Up (Catholicism, Arminianism)

    10 vote(s)
    37.0%
  3. Not Messed Up (Pelagius, Liberal Christianity)

    2 vote(s)
    7.4%
  1. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Mark 10:18 - And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

    Romans 3:10-12 - as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
     
  2. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    "Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires."
    R 8:5

    "For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other"
    Gal 5:17

    "Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
    Gal 6:8

    Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.
    R 8:12
     
  3. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    So, we are playing cards with verses or what...?:scratch:
     
  4. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    There is a difference between sarx and soma.
     
  5. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    If we are, then I've played the trump cards.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +24,819
    Anglican
    Married
    Not necessarily.
     
  7. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    If not, then we cannot be totally messed up. Only sort of messed up. Which do you say?
     
  8. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    And Jesus had sarx or soma or both? And what about us? :idea:
     
  9. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    There are no "trump" verses.
     
  10. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Jesus had a body (soma) but did not have a fallen human nature (sarx). We have both bodies and sinful natures.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  11. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    Where did you get this idea from that sarx is "a fallen human nature"?
     
  12. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    The Bible.
     
  13. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    Not all flesh is the same, but indeed one flesh [sarx] is of men, and another flesh [sarx] is of beasts, and another flesh [sarx] is of birds, and another is of fish .
    1 Cor 15:39

    So, birds, beasts and fish have fallen human nature... ?

    :scratch:
     
  14. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Sarx is sometimes used to refer simply to "flesh". But its dominant theological meaning is "sinful disposition that hates God." It should not be identified with the human body in a one-to-one way.
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +24,819
    Anglican
    Married
    Well, part of the problem is that "Messed up" is rather messy as a description. But what I meant by my reply is that it is possible that mankind fell totally, thanks to A&E, but had the theoretical possibility of being justified in God's eyes so long as the Law was adhered to.
     
  16. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Yes I believe the Bible teaches this. If any human could, in theory, obey the Law then they would be justified by their works. But this does not at all imply that humans are existentially able to do this. Sin has totally disabled them, even though the theory remains.
     
  17. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    The Word became flesh [sarx]...
    J 1:14

    :scratch:
     
  18. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +5,617
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Yes, flesh is used in various ways. Sometimes it refers to a body. Sometimes it refers to a person. But the dominant theological category is that it refers to a sinful disposition which hates God. The context would determine the meaning. In this context it means humanity. But in your previous contexts in post #22 it means sinful disposition.
     
  19. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +946
    Czech Republic
    Christian
    Single
    Or, it means still the same thing, i.e. our body.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +11,791
    Christian
    Married
    If our bodies incline us to sin, then that starts at birth before we even have consciousness of our actions. We begin saying "yes" to our flesh from the moment we cry at the first discomfort of our first breath.
     
Loading...