How many seals have been opened?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Can someone tell me how many seals have already been opened? What in the world is happening right now that was told in the bible, for the end times? How do we know we are in the end times, according to what god said? Thanks.

quote Vinsight4U: Try this? Three seals have been opened and only the fourth seal needs opened to bring in the man of sin as the ruler of Iraq. The seals come from the song prophecy of Moses back in Deuteronomy hapter 32/ a nation that has to come against Israel at the end is sealed up. That nation is Iraq. The seals also bring into play the prophecy found in Zechariah chapter 6.

the horses/the four spirits of the heavens [post #16]

I believe it will be soon, I believe we are on the brink.
There have been many signs. But we cannot know exactly when, we must always be at the ready.
Matthew 24:36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father.

quote Good4U: How many seals opened? None.
What is happening now for the end times? Nothing.
How do I know we are not in the end times? All these things have not taken place yet -- Matt. 24.
That was easy.

Hi,
I hold the historicist view, that the Revelation began unfolding shortly after it was written (as verse 1 says), that all 7 seals have already been opened.

(The first seal/first horseman was the coming of the first Christian conqueror, St. Constantine).

The trumpet prophecies have also come to pass,

And right now, we are seeing the 7 last plagues being poured out -- skin cancer, red tides, global warming, etc. (See Rev. 16)

The Euphrates recently dried up, so the Battle of Ar Mageddon is coming next. (See last plagues 6 &7)

Barry

quote Howard Dean: Really? CNN must've missed the part about the stars falling from the sky, all grass and grain dried up, the seas turning to blood, the 2 witnesses rising to Heaven in view of the whole world.
etc. etc.

The Seals and Trupets are passed already????? Everything will happen "quickly" not over a 2000 yr period. Interesting topic.

Revelation 1:1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass in swiftness; [#5034]

{WHAT THINGS} dei <1163> (5904) {MUST} genesqai <1096> (5635) {TAKE PLACE} en <1722>{IN} tacei <5034> {SWIFTNESS:}

Reve 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly/swifly [#5035]." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! tacu <5035> {QUICKLY.}

Historicist dwell between the Preterist view and Futurists view.

They and many "historicists" believe the "manchild" is Constantine/false Christ since revelation is all future from when John visioned it, thus the "manchild" cannot possibly be Christ or someone else before John visioned this. Thoughts on this?

http://hisremnant.org/eby/articles/kingdom/priest/priestindex.html
"The Royal Priesthood"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any more thoughts on the Seals being opened? This is such a fascinating topic and I hope interpreter comes back to exlain how the seals and trumpets are pass already.

Reve 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

 

[midnightbirdgirl]

Really? CNN must've missed the part about the stars falling from the sky, all grass and grain dried up, the seas turning to blood, the 2 witnesses rising to Heaven in view of the whole world.
etc. etc.

WE must have been watching FOX news at the time.
MBG

 

[midnightbirdgirl]

Hi,

I hold the historicist view, that the Revelation began unfolding shortly after it was written (as verse 1 says), that all 7 seals have already been opened. (The first seal/first horseman was the coming of the first Christian conqueror, St. Constantine).

The trumpet prophecies have also come to pass,

And right now, we are seeing the 7 last plagues being poured out -- skin cancer, red tides, global warming, etc. (See Rev. 16)

The Euphrates recently dried up, so the Battle of Ar Mageddon is coming next. (See last plagues 6 &7)

Barry

I hold the biblical view, and Constantine was NO Saint!!!!...he was a pagan who worshiped the sun-god Mithras... he never converted he just married Mithraism with Christianity gave birth to Catholicism. That is how Christianity got so corrupted. Hello...if you knew church history you would understand this as well.
MBG

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi,

I hold the historicist view, that the Revelation began unfolding shortly after it was written (as verse 1 says), that all 7 seals have already been opened. (The first seal/first horseman was the coming of the first Christian conqueror, St. Constantine).

The trumpet prophecies have also come to pass,

And right now, we are seeing the 7 last plagues being poured out -- skin cancer, red tides, global warming, etc. (See Rev. 16)

The Euphrates recently dried up, so the Battle of Ar Mageddon is coming next. (See last plagues 6 &7)

Barry

Really? CNN must've missed the part about the stars falling from the sky, all grass and grain dried up, the seas turning to blood, the 2 witnesses rising to Heaven in view of the whole world.
etc. etc.

I hold the biblical view, and Constantine was NO Saint!!!!...he was a pagan who worshiped the sun-god Mithras... he never converted he just married Mithraism with Christianity gave birth to Catholicism. That is how Christianity got so corrupted. Hello...if you knew church history you would understand this as well.
MBG

Hi midnight. I agree about it being "unbiblical" and is that an "Orthodox" belief?

Many "historicists" believe the "manchild" is Constantine/false Christ since revelation is all future from when John visioned it, thus the "manchild" cannot possibly be Christ or someone else before John visioned this. Thoughts on this?

http://hisremnant.org/eby/articles/k...iestindex.html
"The Royal Priesthood"

 

[PastorMikeJ]

not a one! they are opened during the Trib...read Revelation....

 

[DeaconDean]

None!

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. " -Rev. 4:1

 

[interpreter]

The Seals and Trupets are passed already????? Everything will happen "quickly" not over a 2000 yr period. Interesting topic. Historicist dwell between the Preterist view and Futurists view.

Whose post are you referring to? I did not say everything happened soon after the Revelation was penned, but the first event did. The rest unfolds over many centuries.

They and many "historicists" believe the "manchild" is Constantine/false Christ since revelation is all future from when John visioned it, thus the "manchild" cannot possibly be Christ or someone else before John visioned this. Thoughts on this?

I haven't heard of that before. While most of the Revelation foretells future events, chapter 12 seems to be a review of the big picture including the birth of Jesus (the man-child).
[/QUOTE]

 

[interpreter]

I hold the biblical view, and Constantine was NO Saint!!!!...he was a pagan who worshiped the sun-god Mithras... he never converted he just married Mithraism with Christianity gave birth to Catholicism. That is how Christianity got so corrupted. Hello...if you knew church history you would understand this as well.
MBG

What history book have you been reading? Before his conversion, Constantine worshipped the sun-god. Then he saw the sign of the Son of Man in the clouds (fulfilling Mat. 24:30), put the sign on his banner as instructed by Jesus, and quickly conquered Rome and all the known world for Jesus and the Church. He was baptised before his death, and was made a saint. The Church was not so corrupted during Constantine's day.
Even if Constantine was not perfect, the Revelation never says that any of the four horsemen are. They are men.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

They and many "historicists" believe the "manchild" is Constantine/false Christ since revelation is all future from when John visioned it, thus the "manchild" cannot possibly be Christ or someone else before John visioned this. Thoughts on this?

I haven't heard of that before. While most of the Revelation foretells future events, chapter 12 seems to be a review of the big picture including the birth of Jesus (the man-child).

Whose post are you referring to? I did not say everything happened soon after the Revelation was penned, but the first event did. The rest unfolds over many centuries.

Revelation 1:1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass in swiftness; [#5034]

{WHAT THINGS} dei <1163> (5904) {MUST} genesqai <1096> (5635) {TAKE PLACE} en <1722>{IN} tacei <5034> {SWIFTNESS:}

Reve 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly/swifly [#5035]." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! tacu <5035> {QUICKLY.}

A lot of historicist do believe constantine is the "manchild". This one shows the tail of the Dragon as Constantine but the manchild as the Papacy!!!!!! EGADS!! And if you say the trumpets and seals are past, you would have a hard time convincing any true Orthodox christian that has happened I think.

I will let other dispute with you brother, as your view is rather "unscriptural" and goes outside the Bible.

http://www.bibletoday.com/revelations/rev_chapter5_text.htm

Among the 13 chapters which form the first section of Revelation, chapter 12 is one of the most complete units. Being able to interpret it correctly is the key to interpreting the remainder of Revelation. It might even be wise for a student to begin with chapter 12 and then work both directions to understand the remainder of Revelation. Following is a relatively complete exposition of chapter 12.
Before beginning its examination in detail, however, it is VERY IMPORTANT to remember the symbolic nature of Revelation (1:1). Many interpreters will look at verse 5 and innnediately assume this refers to Jesus. But Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4) tells us that another (FAKE) MANCHILD -- the man of sin -- would be exalted to religious superiority and, in this position, rule the religious world. Likewise, some will look at 12:7 and assume Jesus is here meant because Jesus also owns the name of Michael. But whatever Jesus owns, the man of sin (Jesus' counterfeit) [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]also [/FONT]owns by usurpation. Verse 7 does not best apply to Jesus because heaven HAS NO WAR. If it did, how [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]terrible [/FONT]would be the prayer, "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

v. 5 The child of the covenant [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]([/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Which was supposed [/FONT]to be true Christianity) turns out to be a "manchild" -- [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]"[/FONT]the man of and her child was caught up sin" which, during the Christian age, would rule all nations with total authority (a rod of iron). This is the clear history of the Roman Church during what most scholars call the Dark Ages. This "child" (the Papacy) was exalted to being "God on Earth." (Compare 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4.)


v. 4 The tail of this dragon is Constantine as he was the LAST emperor in Rome; he [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]moved [/FONT]the Impenal capital to Constantinople thus setting up great changes in history. Constantine e[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]mbracing [/FONT]Christianity,

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]http://www.west.net/~antipas/books/revelation_pearce/revp_05.html
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Two criticism of this interpretation are made:[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]

(1) Can we say that in symbol Constantine was "caught up unto God and his throne"?[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](2) Could it possibly be true that at, this time "a loud voice in heaven" declared "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God"?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]We will take the second criticism first.[/FONT]

 

[interpreter]

Any more thoughts on the Seals being opened? This is such a fascinating topic and I hope interpreter comes back to exlain how the seals and trumpets are pass already.
[/B]

OK, here's some more. As I said, the 1st horseman is Constantine and his sucessors, i.e., the Byzantine Empire, which lasted over 1000 years. Constantinople is pointed to by one of the vectors of the starguide of ch. 1, whose 21 vectors point to all good thing foretold.
IMO, the 2nd horseman is Charlemagne and his sucessors, i.e., the Holy Roman Empire which also lasted over 1000 years. Charles rode a red horse and conquered with a great sword, i.e., a lance. Rome is pointed to by the starguide of ch. 1.

The 3rd horseman appears to be King James and his sucessors, i.e., the British empire. King James rode a black horse and conquered with economics. Great Britain still exists and may yet last 1000 years. Canterbury and London are pointed to by one of the vectors of the starguide provided in chapter 1, which points to all the good things foretold.

The 4th horseman appears to be George Washington and his sucessors, i.e, the USA. He rode a pale horse, and the US conquers with death, including nuclear bombs. The three historical capitals of the US, New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC are pointed to by the starguide of ch. 1.

more later when i have time to post...

Barry

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The 4th horseman appears to be George Washington and his sucessors, i.e, the USA. He rode a pale horse, and the US conquers with death, including nuclear bombs. The three historical capitals of the US, New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC are pointed to by the starguide of ch. 1.

Ok, the 4 horsemen have come. G.W. symbolized Death and Hades followed him. So a 4th part of the land was "killed off"? Interesting.

7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, `Come and behold!' 8 and seeing, and beholding, a pale/speckled horse, and he who is sitting upon him--his name is Death, and Hades does follow with him, and there was given to them authority to kill, (over the fourth part of the land,) with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and by the beasts of the land

Since Christ came and abolished death (II Tim. 1:10) and destroyed him that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Heb. 2:14), He now boldly proclaims: "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the KEYS OF THE HADES AND OF THE DEATH" (Rev. 1:18). And since the Christ now possesses both hell and death, neither of them ride anywhere except by His authority!

This horse is given power over the fourth part of the earth-realm, to kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. It bespeaks of the conclusion, consummation and termination of the process. It means the final subjugation and destruction of everything within us that is contrary to HIS life and kingdom. And all the instruments necessary to accomplish this are in His hands and at His command.

"And power was given unto Him to kill...with death." To kill with DEATH! How does one kill with death?

How can you abolish death by bringing men under the power of eternal death from which there is no escape? Oh, no, it is not men who are destroyed in the lake of fire -- it is sin and death and hell that are destroyed. "And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26). "And there shall be no more death: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4). Thus, the lake of fire is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH! "And power was given unto them to kill...with death. " 0, the wonder of it!

 

[cavymom]

none, no seals/trumpets/etc are opened yet

the tribulation doesn't start until the antichrist is revealed and the seven year peace treaty with Isreal is signed.

imo

you can read some info here about the tribulation.
http://www.tribulationforces.com/tfcdr/sevenyears.shtml

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

http://www.tribulationforces.com/tfcdr/sevenyears.shtml
The 4th horseman appears to be George Washington and his sucessors, i.e, the USA. He rode a pale horse, and the US conquers with death, including nuclear bombs. The three historical capitals of the US, New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC are pointed to by the starguide of ch. 1

quote=cavymom
none, no seals/trumpets/etc are opened yet

the tribulation doesn't start until the antichrist is revealed and the seven year peace treaty with Isreal is signed.

imo

you can read some info here about the tribulation..

So we both agree the 4th horseman can't be Georg Washington, correct? That has nothing to do with Revelation 11.

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Temple of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

 

[cavymom]

So we both agree the 4th horseman can't be Georg Washington, correct? That has nothing to do with Revelation 11.

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Temple of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

I have no idea where George Washington fits in at all. Since he died a loong time ago and will not be alive and certainly not be in command of anything during the upcoming seven year tribulation.



The Holy city is Jerusalem.
Isa 52:1 - "Wake up, wake up;
put on your strength, Zion!
Put on your beautiful garments,
Jerusalem, the Holy City!
For the uncircumcised and the unclean
will no longer enter you.


I pulled this from the website:
http://www.tribulationforces.com/tfcdr/sevenyears.shtml

The Seal Judgements - The seal judgments represents the judgements put forth by God during the first quarter (or 21 months) of the Tribulation.

• The First Seal - A White Horse <Rev 6:1-2> The first horseman indicates a man of authority (the horse and the crown) who will conquer the world with diplomacy by offering peace <1 Thes 5:1-3> (symbolized by the bow with no arrows). This ruler is the AntiChrist <1 John 4:3> or the "man of sin" <2 Thes 2:3>.
• The Second Seal - A Red Horse <Rev 6:3-4> As in all prior periods of peace concocted by man the promised peace of the Antichrist fails and the world erupts into war.
• The Third Seal - A Black Horse <Rev 6:5-6> The black horse symbolizes world famine. A "penny" represents a days wage. The "oil and wine" symbolize the foods of the rich which will be unscathed. This shows that this famine will affect only the poor in the world.
• The Fourth Seal - A Pale Horse <Rev 6:7-8> When the fourth seal is broken death will come to one fourth of the population of the earth due to the ravages of war, famine and an apparent rampage of wild animals against the people of the earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

OK, here's some more. As I said, the 1st horseman is Constantine and his sucessors, i.e., the Byzantine Empire, which lasted over 1000 years. Constantinople is pointed to by one of the vectors of the starguide of ch. 1, whose 21 vectors point to all good thing foretold.

IMO, the 2nd horseman is Charlemagne and his sucessors, i.e., the Holy Roman Empire which also lasted over 1000 years. Charles rode a red horse and conquered with a great sword, i.e., a lance. Rome is pointed to by the starguide of ch. 1.

The 3rd horseman appears to be King James and his sucessors, i.e., the British empire. King James rode a black horse and conquered with economics. Great Britain still exists and may yet last 1000 years. Canterbury and London are pointed to by one of the vectors of the starguide provided in chapter 1, which points to all the good things foretold.

The 4th horseman appears to be George Washington and his sucessors, i.e, the USA. He rode a pale horse, and the US conquers with death, including nuclear bombs. The three historical capitals of the US, New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC are pointed to by the starguide of ch. 1.

more later when i have time to post...

Barry

The Second Seal - A Red Horse <Rev 6:3-4> As in all prior periods of peace concocted by man the promised peace of the Antichrist fails and the world erupts into war.

You are saying it is the whole world ?

The way it looks, it appears to involve Jerusalem and Israel only [note DANIEL 12/ Ezekiel 38/39]. But I could be mistaken.

reve 11 does show a temple of God and worshippers being measured, and I always assume those were of the Jewish Priesthood. At least according to the OT and NT. At least it makes more sense than George Washingon!!!! Thoughts?

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arising!! and Measure Ye!! the Sanctuary/Temple of God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

Luke 21:21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Romans 16:20 and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet in swifness [#5034]; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen!

Revelation 3:9 "Indeed I will make [those] of the synagogue of The Adversary, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie -- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

 

[cavymom]

You are saying it is the whole world ?

The way it looks, it appears to involve Jerusalem and Israel only [note Ezekiel 38/39]. But I could be mistaken.

reve 11 does show a temple of God and worshippers being measured, and I always assume those were of the Jewish Priesthood. At least according to the OT and NT. At least it makes more sense than George Washingon!!!! Thoughts?

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Temple of God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 speaks of the Gog-Magog War that will take place... the reason it happens is so God can show ALL the nations His Holy Power by restoring Israel. God will supernaturally destroy the enemies of Israel in the sight of ALL nations (the whole world). God will pour His Holy Spirit on Israel and bring them to revival.



God supernaturally destroys Israels enemies...

Ezekiel 38:22 I will execute judgment on him with plague and bloodshed. I will pour out torrential rain, hailstones, fire, and brimstone on him, as well as his troops and the many peoples who are with him.


God restores Isreal, fills them with the Holy Spirit and this diplays Gods awesome power...

Ezekiel 39:21 "I will display My glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the judgment I have executed and the hand I have laid on them. 22 From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile on account of their iniquity, because they dealt unfaithfully with Me. Therefore, I hid My face from them and handed them over to their enemies, so that they all fell by the sword. 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and transgressions, and I hid My face from them. 25 "So this is what the Lord God says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for My holy name. 26 They will feel remorse for their disgrace and all the unfaithfulness they committed against Me, when they live securely in their land with no one to frighten [them]. 27 When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the countries of their enemies,I will demonstrate My holiness through them in the sight of many nations. 28 They will know that I am the Lord their God when I regather them to their own land after having exiled them among the nations. I will leave none of them behind. 29 I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel." [This is] the declaration of the Lord God.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

If you read further down, you see this is about Babylon, not Jerusalem because God says Jerusalem is His Eternal City. (rev 21)

Revelation 18:21 Then a mighty angel picked up a stone like a large millstone and threw it into the sea, saying: In this way, Babylon the great city will be thrown down violently and never be found again. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters will never be heard in you again; no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again; the sound of a mill will never be heard in you again; 23 the light of a lamp will never shine in you again; and the voice of a groom and bride will never be heard in you again. All this will happen because your merchants were the nobility of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery,

Luke 21:21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

There have been many times that nations have fought Jerusalem, but in the last days there are calls to "wipe it off the face of the earth"... the armies are gentiles that do not honor the Lord. The city of Jerusalem is God's property and it belongs to God only. If you read to the last page of revelation you see that God takes Isreal back in the end and no more people (gentiles) make war in it ever again.

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains! Those inside the city must leave it, and those who are in the country must not enter it,22 because these are days of vengeance to fulfill all the things that are written. 23 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for there will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Romans 16:20 and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet in swifness [#5034]; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen!

this is self explanatory

Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

Revelation 3:9 "Indeed I will make [those] of the synagogue of The Adversary, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie -- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

We turn to Romans to see what a 'true jew' is...

Romans 2:29 On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart--by the Spirit, not the letter. His praise is not from men but from God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You are saying it is the whole world ?

The way it looks, it appears to involve Jerusalem and Israel only [note DANIEL 12/ Ezekiel 38/39]. But I could be mistaken.

reve 11 does show a temple of God and worshippers being measured, and I always assume those were of the Jewish Priesthood. At least according to the OT and NT. At least it makes more sense than George Washingon!!!! Thoughts?

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arising!! and Measure Ye!! the Sanctuary/Temple of God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

Luke 21:21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Romans 16:20 and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet in swifness [#5034]; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen!

Revelation 3:9 "Indeed I will make [those] of the synagogue of The Adversary, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie -- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

If you read further down, you see this is about Babylon, not Jerusalem because God says Jerusalem is His Eternal City. (rev 21)

Umm sorry. But the only Eternal City is Above, not below I think and the only way to "come to it" is through the Faith that is of Jesus Christ, our Lord, King and Savior hung on a "tree" to abolish Death. Babylon appears to be a type of "False Jerusalem" maybe.?

Hebrew 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.

Btw, the OLD SANCTUARY and Temple is kind of Desolate today isn't it? So it couldn't have been very "Eternal".

Matt 23:38 "See! Your House is left to you a WILDERNESS;

Reve 18:9 " The kings of the earth/land who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 "standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.' 18 "and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What [is] like this great city?' 19 "They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.'

Lamentations 2:1 How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earthThe beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.

Ezra 3: 12 But many of the priests and Levites and heads of the fathers' [houses,] old men who had seen the First Temple, wept with a loud voice when the foundation of this temple was laid before their eyes. Yet many shouted aloud for joy, 13 so that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of Joy from the noise of the Weeping of the people, for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the sound was heard afar off.

 

[cavymom]

Umm sorry. But the only Eternal City is Above, not below I think and the only way to "come to it" is through the Faith that is of Jesus Christ, our Lord, King and Savior hung on a "tree" to abolish Death. Babylon appears to be a type "False Jerusalem" maybe.?

Btw, the OLD SANCTUARY and Temple is kind of Desolate today isn't it? So it couldn't have been very "Eternal".

Hebrew 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.

Matt 23:38 "See! Your House is left to you a Wilderness;

Reve 18:9 " The kings of the earth/land who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 "standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.' 18 "and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What [is] like this great city?' 19 "They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.'

Lamentations 2:1 How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earthThe beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.

Ezra 3: 12 But many of the priests and Levites and heads of the fathers' [houses,] old men who had seen the First Temple, wept with a loud voice when the foundation of this temple was laid before their eyes. Yet many shouted aloud for joy, 13 so that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of Joy from the noise of the Weeping of the people, for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the sound was heard afar off.

1 Kings 11:36 And to his son I will give one tribe, that My servant David may always have a lamp before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen for Myself, to put My name there.


2Ki 21:4 - He also built altars in the house of the Lord, of which the Lord had said, "In Jerusalem I will put My name."

1Ch 23:25 - For David said, "The Lord God of Israel has given rest to His people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem forever";

2Ch 6:6 - Yet I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name may be there; and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.'

Ps 135:21 - Blessed be the Lord out of Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem! Praise the Lord!

Isa 31:5 - Like birds flying about, So will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem. Defending, He will also deliver it; Passing over, He will preserve it."

Isa 52:1 - Awake, awake! Put on your strength, O Zion; Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city! For the uncircumcised and the unclean Shall no longer come to you.

Jer 17:25 - then shall enter the gates of this city kings and princes sitting on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they and their princes, accompanied by the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and this city shall remain forever.

Jer 33:16 - In those days Judah will be saved, And Jerusalem will dwell safely. And this is the name by which she will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.'

Joe 2:32 - And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the Lord has said, Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.


Zec 1:16 - 'Therefore thus says the Lord: "I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy; My house shall be built in it," says the Lord of hosts, "And a surveyor's line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem." '
Zec 1:17 - "Again proclaim, saying, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts: "My cities shall again spread out through prosperity; The Lord will again comfort Zion, And will again choose Jerusalem." ' "
Zec 8:3 - "Thus says the Lord: 'I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.'


Zec 12:9 - It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zec 12:10 - "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.


Zec 14:4 - And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:8 - And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur.
Zec 14:16 - And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 - And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.


Mt 5:35 - nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You are saying it is the whole world ?

The way it looks, it appears to involve Jerusalem and Israel only [note DANIEL 12/ Ezekiel 38/39]. But I could be mistaken.

reve 11 does show a temple of God and worshippers being measured, and I always assume those were of the Jewish Priesthood. At least according to the OT and NT. At least it makes more sense than George Washingon!!!! Thoughts?

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arising!! and Measure Ye!! the Sanctuary/Temple of God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

Luke 21:21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Romans 16:20 and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet in swifness [#5034]; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen!

1 Kings 11:36 And to his son I will give one tribe, that My servant David may always have a lamp before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen for Myself, to put My name there.

Hi Cavy. Jesus's Name is already there!!!
All that scripture you put up in post #59 is all well and good, but it doesn't help other christians identify the "babylon" in revelation where a temple of God and worshippers are being measured. Mind giving us your view?

Babylon appears to be a type of "False earthly Jerusalem" maybe.?

Hebrew 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.

Btw, the OLD SANCTUARY and Temple is kind of Desolate today isn't it? So it couldn't have been very "Eternal".

Matt 23:38 "See! Your House is left to you a WILDERNESS;

Reve 18:9 " The kings of the earth/land who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 "standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.' 18 "and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What [is] like this great city?' 19 "They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.'

Lamentations 2:1 How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earthThe beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.

Ezra 3: 12 But many of the priests and Levites and heads of the fathers' [houses,] old men who had seen the First Temple, wept with a loud voice when the foundation of this temple was laid before their eyes. Yet many shouted aloud for joy, 13 so that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of Joy from the noise of the Weeping of the people, for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the sound was heard afar off.