How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

[Lost4words]

How does that address the OP?

Easily......

 

[Hammster]

Easily......

Okay. How was Paul’s ministry effective to the Gentiles when Jesus was sending out His disciples in Matthew 10?

 

[zoidar]

You don’t have a cohesive theology that is consistent. You have a theology where God doesn’t want all to be saved, and one where He does. I keep bringing this up, trying to get you to reconcile this obvious flaw. Yet you deftly avoid the argument.

Does mom want her child put in jail? Of course not! Does mom want her child put in jail if he/she commits a serious crime? Of course! You see the logical fallacy with your dilemma?

 

[Hammster]

Does mom want her child put in jail? Of course not! Does mom want her child put in jail if her child commits a serious crime? Of course! You see the logical fallacy with your dilemma?

No, I really don’t. Please explaining.

 

[zoidar]

No, I really don’t. Please explaining.

God wants everyone to repent and be saved. If a person denies Jesus until the end God doesn't want that person saved.

 

[Hammster]

God wants everyone to repent and be saved. If a person denies Jesus until the end God doesn't want that person saved.

Then why did He actively ensure that some wouldn’t get the message?

 

[zoidar]

Like this?

“He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them.”
— John 12:40

Is it possible for God having a reason other than not wanting them saved hardening their heart?

Then why did He actively ensure that some wouldn’t get the message?

 

[Hammster]

Is it possible for God having a reason other than not wanting them saved hardening their heart?

It’s possible, I suppose. But I don’t want an argument from silence. I think it’s better to address what the text says.

 

[zoidar]

It’s possible, I suppose. But I don’t want an argument from silence. I think it’s better to address what the text says.

I think the reason God hardened their heart was their own fault.

 

[John Mullally]

You don’t have a cohesive theology that is consistent. You have a theology where God doesn’t want all to be saved, and one where He does. I keep bringing this up, trying to get you to reconcile this obvious flaw. Yet you deftly avoid the argument.

I deftly avoid arguments where I am expected to assign reasons for just about everything Jesus did in ministry. I would not want to be presumptive.

 

[Lost4words]

Okay. How was Paul’s ministry effective to the Gentiles when Jesus was sending out His disciples in Matthew 10?

Jesus had a plan. He knew what He was doing. He knew the future.

 

[Hammster]

I think the reason God hardened their heart was their own fault. God doesn't harden people for the sake of hardening.

Does it say that?

 

[Hammster]

Jesus had a plan. He knew what He was doing. He knew the future.

I’m sure He did. But that’s not the scope of the OP.

 

[Hammster]

I deftly avoid arguments where I am expected to assign reasons for just about everything Jesus did in ministry. I would not want to be presumptive.

I’m not asking you to do that, however.

 

[zoidar]

Does it say that?

Look at the passages in Isaiah chapter 5-6 where you find the quote. Then you might get a better picture of what is going on.

... But they do not pay attention to the deeds of the Lord,
Nor do they consider the work of His hands.
— Isaiah 5:12

And one called out to another and said,
“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,
The whole earth is full of His glory.”
And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. Then I said,
“Woe is me, for I am ruined!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.”
Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. He touched my mouth with it and said, “Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven.” Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!” He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed.”
— Isaiah 6:3-10

 

[Hammster]

Look at the passages in Isaiah chapter 5-6 where you find the quote. Then you might get a better picture of what is going on.

... But they do not pay attention to the deeds of the Lord,
Nor do they consider the work of His hands.
— Isaiah 5:12

And one called out to another and said,
“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,
The whole earth is full of His glory.”
And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. Then I said,
“Woe is me, for I am ruined!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.”
Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. He touched my mouth with it and said, “Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven.” Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!” He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed.”
— Isaiah 6:3-10

I’m looking at what Jesus said. Splicing together passages from two chapters elsewhere isn’t good hermeneutics.

 

[zoidar]

I’m looking at what Jesus said. Splicing together passages from two chapters elsewhere isn’t good hermeneutics.

I think it is since that's what being quoted in John 12. The problem is their own turned away heart or will.

These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him. Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.
— John 12:41-43

 

[Hammster]

I think it is since that's what being quoted.

Where is Isaiah 5 quoted?

 

[zoidar]

Where is Isaiah 5 quoted?

I believe chapter Isaiah 5 and 6 belongs together. The meaning of the quote from Isaiah 6 is read in Isaiah, not in John 12. You shouldn't use the quote from Isaiah 6 in John 12 without looking up how it's used in Isaiah 6.

 

[Hammster]

I believe chapter Isaiah 5 and 6 belongs together. The meaning of the quote from Isaiah 6 is read in Isaiah, not in John 12. You shouldn't use the quote from Isaiah 6 in John 12 without looking up how it's used in Isaiah 6.

That’s another argument from silence. Why not all of six? Or some of 65? You skipped 26 whole verses to make it say what you wanted.

I think it’s best to let Jesus speak what He wants to speak, even if it