how many failed prophecies does a false prophet make?

[probinson]

but you can go ahead and keep thinking that activities within our churches are not to be decent and in order.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Please, oh please, show me where I said things are not to be decent and in order. FTR, this would be a much more beneficial conversation for everyone involved if you would stop pretending like you know what everyone else is thinking. Thanks in advance.

However, your post does illustrate a mindset prevalent in the Church. People seem to think it is impossible for things to be decent and in order unless THE RULES say that they must be. Most leaders in the church would much rather control people by enforcing rules than building relationships with them so that they'll WANT to be orderly. It's no wonder so many people in the Church are so performance-oriented.

 

[ARBITER01]

Where do you come up with this stuff? Please, oh please, show me where I said things are not to be decent and in order. FTR, this would be a much more beneficial conversation for everyone involved if you would stop pretending like you know what everyone else is thinking. Thanks in advance.

However, your post does illustrate a mindset prevalent in the Church. People seem to think it is impossible for things to be decent and in order unless THE RULES say that they must be. Most leaders in the church would much rather control people by enforcing rules than building relationships with them so that they'll WANT to be orderly. It's no wonder so many people in the Church are so performance-oriented.

And where do you come up with some of your stuff my friend? I don't know of any church that just has a free-for-all without regard to any rules in it, yet you think it is spiritually immature to have them imposed?!?

I really don't have much time for you pete, you only remind me of what we see on tbn and other places.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim, is there anyone saying that prophets are more reliable than the Bible?

Cheers,
Ben

Thank you for saying that.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Test the spirits is one of many rules.

 

[probinson]

I don't know of any church that just has a free-for-all without regard to any rules in it, yet you think it is spiritually immature to have them imposed?!?

Please, show me where I said that a church should be a free-for-all, or that things shouldn't be done decently in order. You are arguing against a boogey man of your own creation.

The only one talking about spiritual maturity is you, I suppose because you must think you're pretty mature. But mature people don't typically run around saying "I'm mature and you're not!" They just act mature. If you have to constantly remind people of your maturity, you might want to ask yourself why. But I digress...

"THE RULES" was never what Church was supposed to be about. While you seem unable to hear what I am saying, I am saying that if you impose rules on people in Church, you're doing nothing more than manipulating them and controlling them from the outside in. There is a vast difference between creating a list of rules and building relationships with people so that their hearts are changed. There is a vast difference between doing something because THE RULES say you have to vs. doing something because you want to.

For example, do I need to have a rule to not cheat on my wife? Does that need to be codified so that I won't do it? No. Why? Because I Love my wife. A rule is not necessary to prevent me from cheating on my wife. I don't want to cheat on my wife, because I Love her.

So it should be in the church. Why do you think when Jesus was asked about the commandments (the rules?) He listed only 2? Love the Lord your God with all your heart all your mind and all your strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself? It's because Jesus knew that if people's hearts were changed to a heart filled with the Love of God, it wouldn't be necessary to make rules to control people, but rather they would DESIRE to do right because their heart was right.

You're trying to control people from the outside in with THE RULES, but God changes people from the inside out.

I really don't have much time for you pete, you only remind me of what we see on tbn and other places.

Now, THAT'S funny.

 

[ARBITER01]

Test the spirits is one of many rules.

That is correct, and also why paul said prophecy was to be by 2 or 3 and let the others discern. It was to be performed in the assembly setting and gauged by the whole.

 

[ARBITER01]

Please, show me where I said that a church should be a free-for-all, or that things shouldn't be done decently in order. You are arguing against a boogey man of your own creation.

The only one talking about spiritual maturity is you, I suppose because you must think you're pretty mature. But mature people don't typically run around saying "I'm mature and you're not!" They just act mature. If you have to constantly remind people of your maturity, you might want to ask yourself why. But I digress...

"THE RULES" was never what Church was supposed to be about. While you seem unable to hear what I am saying, I am saying that if you impose rules on people in Church, you're doing nothing more than manipulating them and controlling them from the outside in. There is a vast difference between creating a list of rules and building relationships with people so that their hearts are changed. There is a vast difference between doing something because THE RULES say you have to vs. doing something because you want to.

For example, do I need to have a rule to not cheat on my wife? Does that need to be codified so that I won't do it? No. Why? Because I Love my wife. A rule is not necessary to prevent me from cheating on my wife. I don't want to cheat on my wife, because I Love her.

So it should be in the church. Why do you think when Jesus was asked about the commandments (the rules?) He listed only 2? Love the Lord your God with all your heart all your mind and all your strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself? It's because Jesus knew that if people's hearts were changed to a heart filled with the Love of God, it wouldn't be necessary to make rules to control people, but rather they would DESIRE to do right because their heart was right.

You're trying to control people from the outside in with THE RULES, but God changes people from the inside out.





Now, THAT'S funny.

Well let's see if you can follow the rules here,..

Harassment
Harassment of another member is strictly prohibited. Respect another member's request to cease contact. Don't make another member's experience on this site miserable. This includes, but is not limited to, gossiping or spreading rumors about another member or persistently attacking them in the open forums. Don't threaten another member. Don't report another member out of spite.

I don't want anymore contact from you pete at all.

 

[John1032]

I honestly don't know anyone who thinks that prophetic words are not to be subject to and tested by the Bible.



What would be your solution then, Lismore? I am genuinely interested. We need a solution which still enables and equips the people of God and let's us all prophecy one by one as per the Bible.

Regards,
Benjamin

Hi Lismore and Ben

Lismore: When someone stands up and says 'thus sayeth the Lord’; they are putting what they are about to say on the same level as the bible.

I honestly don't know anyone who thinks that prophetic words are not to be subject to and tested by the Bible.

Lismore: I think we should act more responsibly when claiming to be speaking the very words of God. Too many people say 'thus sayeth the Lord' then let rip the fantasies of their own minds. And too many wolves are allowed to rip the sheep and get away with it.

What would be your solution then, Lismore? I am genuinely interested. We need a solution which still enables and equips the people of God and let's us all prophecy one by one as per the Bible.


When it comes down to prophecy, we all need to have good discernment in anything a preacher, or teacher or prophet speaks in actual words or written words; and that even goes for posters on threads?

We test those people’s spirits all the time and marry them up what they say or write with HIS WORD.

As sad as it is we do experience things from other people in our personal lives who believe they are led by our Messiah as HIS prophet or a high executioner and speaks out in what they believe is fairness by accusing, condemning, and judging another brother without any real discernment or: “any consolation in Christ, any comfort of love, any fellowship of the Spirit, any affection and mercy, fulfil my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.” (Phlp. 2:1-4); without any motivation of empty pride and groundless self-esteem, and in humility, calling for an honest evaluation of what has been said, heard, and seen.

Do you think all preachers, teachers, leaders, or prophets are correct, including that many say that they are a preacher, teachers, leaders, or prophets and even when they post on forums. (On a forum when a person posts we don’t see the true make-up of that person, but accept mostly what they say, but are they saying what they say under “thus sayeth the Lord”?

We find much the same as what the originator of the thread has expressed, when they post in their personal form of preaching, teaching or prophesying on a forum and they say that they are a preacher, teacher, leader, or prophet of a church, and preach, teach and lead the way that suits their motivation, agenda, and evaluation and judge and condemn in their own eyes, “thus sayeth the Lord”?

Who tests them in unity and through humility (Phlp. 2:1-4) with His Word to see that in fact they are not speaking uncompassionate tongue that exposes their real heart? Anyone can be a smooth talker, and they show their real spirit in their actions when they are looking out for their own interests, such as a preacher, teacher, and prophet; who do whatever they like to do in their pride and self-acceptance because they came under the heading “thus sayeth the Lord” in general life things without really saying those words.

Before we learn how to judge and condemn others, we need to read Philippians 2:1-4 and process those words in our Messiah before we go off judging and condemning others.

Many believe that they know difference between truth and falseness and accuse others without any consideration or respect on non-essential things through their own misinformed wisdom and knowledge on a belief that what they do is in our Messiah’s Name. But, through their own misguidance they come and steal, destroy and kill anyone else’s joy or thunder, because they believe they had come in the Name of the Lord, “thus sayeth the Lord”.

Flesh nullifies all discernment, love, prophecy, and unity through humility.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't believe that the prophesies need to go thru the leadership of the organization. That's not how God has ever operated.
Prefacing a word with thus sayeth the Lord isn't NT either. I've heard so many tongues interpreted with that, and often it's been obvious that they are just fillins for the silence that followed the person speaking in tongues.

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't believe that the prophesies need to go thru the leadership of the organization. That's not how God has ever operated.

We are to know those that labor amongst us.

I don't know of any church around me that just allows anyone off the street to come in and start prophesying whatever in their midst. That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

We are to know those that labor amongst us.

I don't know of any church around me that just allows anyone off the street to come in and start prophesying whatever in their midst. That's a recipe for disaster.

How often do you have people off the street prophesying? I've never seen that. (or rarely if at all )

 

[probinson]

How often do you have people off the street prophesying? I've never seen that. (or rarely if at all )

Good question.

People who argue like this tend to point out absurd extremes that rarely or never happen as justification for what they're saying. But in reality, there aren't a whole lot of churches (if any) who have a problem with people coming in off the street and prophesying.

 

[ARBITER01]

How often do you have people off the street prophesying? I've never seen that. (or rarely if at all )

You don't have visitors?

The old pentecostal church I attended for a while had several stories of folks that thought they could just waltz in and say and do whatever they wanted under the guise of prophecy, until they were shown the front door.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

You don't have visitors?

The old pentecostal church I attended for a while had several stories of folks that thought they could just waltz in and say and do whatever they wanted under the guise of prophecy, until they were shown the front door.

And I've seen the Holy Spirit quenched amongst parishners that had to go thru the pastors.

 

[ARBITER01]

And I've seen the Holy Spirit quenched amongst parishners that had to go thru the pastors.

And I've seen the flesh speaking instead of The Holy Spirit also.

If they are not known prophesiers within the church, then they should not automatically assume they are privileged to speak there, nor would The Holy Spirit have them do that.

 

[probinson]

And I've seen the Holy Spirit quenched amongst parishners that had to go thru the pastors.

Right.

What generally happens at our church is someone will stand up and politely say, "I believe I have a word the Lord wants me to share", and then the pastor gets out of the way. Now there have been some weird words given at times, but our church body is generally able to "eat the hay and spit out the sticks".

Now I don't think people should just get up and jump in front of the pastor and start prophesying, but when everything is done decently and in order, there's no reason to "screen" prophecy through a man made committee who have appointed themselves the official prophecy-approvers.

No one has a greater objection to allowing the Spirit to flow more than those who fear losing their control over others.

 

[~RENEE~]

I have read a book by a prophetess (Cindy Jacobs) who says in her book the proper way to give a word in a corporate church setting is to first present it to the pastor. Then let the pastor decide if it is to be given privately or corporately.

 

[ARBITER01]

I have read a book by a prophetess (Cindy Jacobs) who says in her book the proper way to give a word in a corporate church setting is to first present it to the pastor. Then let the pastor decide if it is to be given privately or corporately.

That's the polite way of doing it, and should be expected out of those who are truly being led by The Holy Spirit.

"Church government is the best security for Christian liberty."

 

[Tobias]

Once we can get past the letter of the Law...

I don't see on a practical level, much difference between a Prophet misrepresenting God, or any other Church leader doing the same. If someone from a more traditional church stands up to teach, complete with a doctorate of Divinity and all other types of Man's approval, and teaches false and/or mistaken doctrines from the Word; how is that any less harmful than presumptuous words from a Prophet?

We have learned to put an awful lot of stock in what Man has to say. Perhaps this is where we have gone wrong. Like in the problem of men lusting after women, we can try to solve the issue by wrapping the women up in baggy clothes and head scarves, or we can just simply let the men that have a problem deal with their own heart issues.

God has decreed that no person on Earth needs to have a priesthood of so called "godly men" to gain access to Him. If and when we choose to exalt someone into this position, then we ourselves are to blame. I don't see the problem being in the false prophets and false teachers, but in the people who abdicate their own right to hear from God to listen to Man.

 

[ARBITER01]

Once we can get past the letter of the Law...

I don't see on a practical level, much difference between a Prophet misrepresenting God, or any other Church leader doing the same. If someone from a more traditional church stands up to teach, complete with a doctorate of Divinity and all other types of Man's approval, and teaches false and/or mistaken doctrines from the Word; how is that any less harmful than presumptuous words from a Prophet?

We have learned to put an awful lot of stock in what Man has to say. Perhaps this is where we have gone wrong. Like in the problem of men lusting after women, we can try to solve the issue by wrapping the women up in baggy clothes and head scarves, or we can just simply let the men that have a problem deal with their own heart issues.

God has decreed that no person on Earth needs to have a priesthood of so called "godly men" to gain access to Him. If and when we choose to exalt someone into this position, then we ourselves are to blame. I don't see the problem being in the false prophets and false teachers, but in the people who abdicate their own right to hear from God to listen to Man.

Let me ask you something,.. why was Elijah known to everyone as a prophet?