how many failed prophecies does a false prophet make?

[obsolete]

Let me ask you something,.. why was Elijah known to everyone as a prophet?

It wasn't because he was a false prophet. He exposed false prophets and had the people chose between them.

 

[ARBITER01]

It wasn't because he was a false prophet. He exposed false prophets and had the people chose between them.

True,.. but what was it about him that everyone knew he was a actual true prophet?

 

[JimfromOhio]

True,.. but what was it about him that everyone knew he was a actual true prophet?

Good question

 

[Deba]

True,.. but what was it about him (Elijah) that everyone knew he was an actual true prophet?

Great question. What's the answer?

 

[ARBITER01]

Great question. What's the answer?

The answer is this, GOD was performing HIS glory and power through Elijah all the time, it wasn't just words.

That's the very same reason that the people knew Jesus was a true prophet, and they couldn't deny Him. The Sadducees and Pharisees knew it, they were just jealous that GOD was not operating through them.

For some reason, the current Christian church readily accepts just the mere words a person speaks as sufficient proof of what they claim. If the Christian community would raise their standards higher and want folks to operate in the power giftings like the prophets of old did, then we would have fewer false ones brave enough to try and fool the people.

That's suppose to be part of our discernment of knowing them by their fruits.

 

[Faulty]

The answer is this, GOD was performing HIS glory and power through Elijah all the time, it wasn't just words.

That's the very same reason that the people knew Jesus was a true prophet, and they couldn't deny Him. The Sadducees and Pharisees knew it, they were just jealous that GOD was not operating through them.

For some reason, the current Christian church readily accepts just the mere words a person speaks as sufficient proof of what they claim. If the Christian community would raise their standards higher and want folks to operate in the power giftings like the prophets of old did, then we would have fewer false ones brave enough to try and fool the people.

That's suppose to be part of our discernment of knowing them by their fruits.

I don't disagree with you in this at all, but I just wonder if that test is universal. I mean, can it be applied to others, such as Nathan because we didn't see him doing such things. What about the hundred prophets that Obadiah hid in the cave, did he recognize them as prophets because God was performing mighty works through them all the time (and if so, why would a hundred such men need to hide).

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't disagree with you in this at all, but I just wonder if that test is universal. I mean, can it be applied to others, such as Nathan because we didn't see him doing such things. What about the hundred prophets that Obadiah hid in the cave, did he recognize them as prophets because God was performing mighty works through them all the time (and if so, why would a hundred such men need to hide).

It may be that they're representative of those who are 'hid in Christ'

 

[probinson]

I have read a book by a prophetess (Cindy Jacobs) who says in her book the proper way to give a word in a corporate church setting is to first present it to the pastor. Then let the pastor decide if it is to be given privately or corporately.

That's what I used to think too. That's what our pastor used to require. But then, we took this into consideration (emphasis added);

God has decreed that no person on Earth needs to have a priesthood of so called "godly men" to gain access to Him. If and when we choose to exalt someone into this position, then we ourselves are to blame. I don't see the problem being in the false prophets and false teachers, but in the people who abdicate their own right to hear from God to listen to Man.

Now again, I'm not suggesting that people should just jump up and interrupt the pastor when he's speaking, but also, the pastor should not need to "approve" of what God wants to say through you.

What the leadership does by instituting this extra-biblical hierarchy of approval in the church is send the message loud and clear that YOU can not simply hear from God and obey. You need the pastor or someone in leadership to verify it for you.

So inadvertently or otherwise, churches are teaching their congregants that they are absolutely beneath the pastor and the leadership, and only they really know what God wants to say and when. Again, they are controlling the people rather than permitting them to flow and operate in the Love and grace of God.

All of this can be done decently and in order. Jesus showed us how; Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind and all your strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[~RENEE~]

the aspect of it is this Pete the pastor was put in that particular church as the authority head. To first take it to the pastor is to show respect to that authority. Which the bible says we are to do.

That's what I used to think too. That's what our pastor used to require. But then, we took this into consideration (emphasis added);



Now again, I'm not suggesting that people should just jump up and interrupt the pastor when he's speaking, but also, the pastor should not need to "approve" of what God wants to say through you.

What the leadership does by instituting this extra-biblical hierarchy of approval in the church is send the message loud and clear that YOU can not simply hear from God and obey. You need the pastor or someone in leadership to verify it for you.

So inadvertently or otherwise, churches are teaching their congregants that they are absolutely beneath the pastor and the leadership, and only they really know what God wants to say and when. Again, they are controlling the people rather than permitting them to flow and operate in the Love and grace of God.

All of this can be done decently and in order. Jesus showed us how; Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind and all your strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[probinson]

the aspect of it is this Pete the pastor was put in that particular church as the authority head. To first take it to the pastor is to show respect to that authority. Which the bible says we are to do.

I agree that we should respect the authority of our local church. I also agree and believe that my pastor has been placed there by God. However, I (and my pastor) do not agree any longer with many of the man-made hierarchical processes in the church or the idea that leadership is above the congregation. Consider this;

Ephesians 5:21 (AMP)
Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
​

The key in this verse is that we are to be subject to one another. IOW, there may well be a time where God speaks something to a member of the congregation where it will require the pastor to be subject to the one giving the word. This scares the living daylights out of pastors who feel that they are to have absolute control of their congregation at all times, because it requires them to also be subject to their congregation, AND to relinquish their control to the Spirit of God.

When there is a mutual submission, things can be done decently and in order without taking something to the pastor first to be screened. I've seen it both ways in our church over the years, and the Spirit flows so much more freely when all the people (including the pastor) are submissive to one another vs everyone submitting to just one man.

Christ is the head of the Church. There can be only one head. Therefore, all the rest of us in the body of Christ are some part of the same body. Just imagine if instead of your head communicating with all of the parts of your body, your foot needed to talk with your hand first to see if it was OK to take a step. That would make for some really jerky movement, and you wouldn't be able to flow in your walking nearly as well.

I'm not advocating that people should be rude and obnoxious to their leaders. I'm advocating that local bodies of believers should "know those that labor amongst them", which means having relationships with one another, and then submitting one to another in the Love of Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't disagree with you in this at all, but I just wonder if that test is universal. I mean, can it be applied to others, such as Nathan because we didn't see him doing such things. What about the hundred prophets that Obadiah hid in the cave, did he recognize them as prophets because God was performing mighty works through them all the time (and if so, why would a hundred such men need to hide).

I do believe so. There must be something from GOD that notifies others around them that they are the real thing, and it would have to be something that GOD shows them specifically beyond just their words.

But even after that, we are to still be discerning of their actions and words,...

Deu 13:1 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and he give thee a sign or a wonder,

Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Deu 13:3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

I do think though, that if the body of Christ wanted credentials from GOD up front for the office, that we would have less of these flim flam people making their claims.

 

[Tobias]

Deu 13:1 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and he give thee a sign or a wonder,

Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Deu 13:3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.


Notice this passages starts with "If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet." Somehow in this scenario the guy gets recognized as a prophet before he preforms a sign or a wonder.

I also remember from the story of king Saul that at one point he started prophesying, and people wondered if he was a prophet too. But i guess that prophesying for one day does not make you a prophet, as he was never named as a Prophet. Somehow people knew that he was prophesying though on the day that he did it, though no signs or wonders are mentioned to have accompanied. His prophecies must have all come true too, as he never was named as a false prophet -- which would be the case by today's standards at least.

One day of prophesying does not make you a Prophet, but one single mistaken word does make you a false prophet.

 

[ARBITER01]

Notice this passages starts with "If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet." Somehow in this scenario the guy gets recognized as a prophet before he preforms a sign or a wonder.

Does the passage really say that or is that just your personal interpretation of it? I believe it is the later because I don't see the passage advocating that we just accept anyone on their words alone, nor have I ever read a passage affirming such a notion.

Do you have a problem with wanting the church to have a prophet provide his/her credentials from GOD as verification for the office they claim?

I also remember from the story of king Saul that at one point he started prophesying, and people wondered if he was a prophet too. But i guess that prophesying for one day does not make you a prophet, as he was never named as a Prophet. Somehow people knew that he was prophesying though on the day that he did it, though no signs or wonders are mentioned to have accompanied. His prophecies must have all come true too, as he never was named as a false prophet -- which would be the case by today's standards at least.

One day of prophesying does not make you a Prophet, but one single mistaken word does make you a false prophet.

What you just stated here is the common misconception within the church.

Just because The Holy Spirit has Saul or anyone of today operate in the gift of prophecy, it doesn't automatically make them a prophet. The gift of prophecy and the office of a prophet are two entirely different Spiritual gifts from The Holy Spirit, one foretells, and one speaks Edification, Exhortation, and Comfort to the body.

This common misconception is an exploitation by many folks within the body of Christ to wrongfully uplift their simple prophesying ministry up to the level of prophet.

GOD sets the standard for a prophet in scripture and it has never changed. If a prophet foretells something wrongfully, they are automatically considered false. Again, that is GOD's standard.

 

[probinson]

Notice this passages starts with "If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet." Somehow in this scenario the guy gets recognized as a prophet before he preforms a sign or a wonder.

I also remember from the story of king Saul that at one point he started prophesying, and people wondered if he was a prophet too. But i guess that prophesying for one day does not make you a prophet, as he was never named as a Prophet. Somehow people knew that he was prophesying though on the day that he did it, though no signs or wonders are mentioned to have accompanied. His prophecies must have all come true too, as he never was named as a false prophet -- which would be the case by today's standards at least.

One day of prophesying does not make you a Prophet, but one single mistaken word does make you a false prophet.

It seems to me like some people are WAY too concerned with titles.

 

[jiminpa]

YouTube - Brian Tamaki Makes a Prediction and Fails! Failed Prophecy Destiny Church

This guy predicted that in 2008 he and his church would be ruling New Zealand. In the 2008 election his party didnt even score 1% of the total party vote.

Anyhow, my question is this, how many failed prophecies does a prophet have to make before they are officially considered a false prophet?

I don't know. How many has David Wilkerson had? At least one more than whatever number that is, and counting, appearently.

 

[Faulty]

Does the passage really say that or is that just your personal interpretation of it? I believe it is the later because I don't see the passage advocating that we just accept anyone on their words alone, nor have I ever read a passage affirming such a notion.

Do you have a problem with wanting the church to have a prophet provide his/her credentials from GOD as verification for the office they claim?

What you just stated here is the common misconception within the church.

Just because The Holy Spirit has Saul or anyone of today operate in the gift of prophecy, it doesn't automatically make them a prophet. The gift of prophecy and the office of a prophet are two entirely different Spiritual gifts from The Holy Spirit, one foretells, and one speaks Edification, Exhortation, and Comfort to the body.

This common misconception is an exploitation by many folks within the body of Christ to wrongfully uplift their simple prophesying ministry up to the level of prophet.

GOD sets the standard for a prophet in scripture and it has never changed. If a prophet foretells something wrongfully, they are automatically considered false. Again, that is GOD's standard.

I'd agree with that. Caiaphas prophesied concerning the death of Jesus (John 11:49-52) and he was hardly a prophet from God.

 

[evangelist]

I don't know. How many has David Wilkerson had? At least one more than whatever number that is, and counting, appearently.

He did say in five years in 2013!

I do believe Martin luther King JR was a true prophet even to see a black president Albama, and to be free at last, but he prophecied correctly without dates but it came to past!

one love

 

[Deba]

I'd agree with that. Caiaphas prophesied concerning the death of Jesus (John 11:49-52) and he was hardly a prophet from God.

I'm not sure I agree, Caiaphas was the chief priest and it seems to me that God would not have called him to a job without equipping him. Character and gifting are two different things.

 

[ARBITER01]

I'm not sure I agree, Caiaphas was the chief priest and it seems to me that God would not have called him to a job without equipping him. Character and gifting are two different things.

Do you just assume his position automatically credits him with being a prophet?

 

[Deba]

Do you just assume his position automatically credits him with being a prophet?

Not necessarily, but possibly. We only see this brief glimpse of him, and his words come true and he is used to bring about the death of Jesus. (Fulfilling prophecy.)