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How many ex-Christians are there here on CF and reason for leaving Christianity?

Did you leave Christianity? And did you return?


  • Total voters
    46

Silmarien

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If you're using thoughts and prayers as a smokescreen to oppose attempts to actually introduce legislation that could address the problem, then yes. They are worse than empty platitudes.


Alienation? I think there's more going on with Bolsonaro than alienation.
 
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FireDragon76

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If you're using thoughts and prayers as a smokescreen to oppose attempts to actually introduce legislation that could address the problem, then yes. They are worse than empty platitudes.

"Could" being the critical word. People at the turn of the last century thought something as simple as Prohibition would address the problem of alcohol abuse... and it didn't. At least not without serious consequences. Even the best of intentions can ultimately amount to something bad if they lack accompanying insight.

Alienation? I think there's more going on with Bolsonaro than alienation.

I think you aren't taking what I'm saying very seriously. You want to moralize the issue, when I'm saying that's actually counter-productive in the long term.
 
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Chris V++

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I was raised in a Christian faith tradition, left to dabble in new age and Eastern religion, and was restored a reborn Christian. I think I understand what Iconoclast means by Jesus being the author and finisher. I will never thirst again.
 
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Silmarien

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I don't think it's at all reasonable to compare attempts to introduce legislation banning civilian possession of assault weapons or even simply to improve enforcement of laws already on the books with Prohibition.

I do think that most of our social problems require a more careful analysis than they often get, but that doesn't make the underlying moral issues disappear. The corporate greed of the NRA is a moral issue.

I think you aren't taking what I'm saying very seriously. You want to moralize the issue, when I'm saying that's actually counter-productive in the long term.

If you want me to take what you are saying seriously, you should not start by complaining about the "not-so-thinly veiled anger and resentments" of the Christian left, and certainly not while simultaneously condemning personal attacks.
 
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FireDragon76

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I looked up that book on Amazon, out of curiosity, and have been reading it all evening. He makes some good points, though I think his use of the word "pagan" is a bit problematic, treating very diverse religions and spiritualities with a very broad brush.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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People make tragic decisions everyday.
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
He is not a way, He is the only way.
To turn from Jesus is to welcome second death.
That is a tragic mistake.
 
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FireDragon76

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All pagan and new age philosophy does not answer the sin question.

Some do... and some just don't consider it relevant or valid. However, almost no religions think of sin in the starkly juridical terms as Calvinism does.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Sometimes it's not the answer that is wrong, but the question itself.
The fact is that all sin is going to be punished,in the sinner or the substitute.
It is not a question to be debated.
God is going to punish each and every sin.
Every idle word. We are guilty in need of mercy.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Some do... and some just don't consider it relevant or valid. However, almost no religions think of sin in the starkly juridical terms as Calvinism does.
They will think of it for all eternity if they do not repent.
 
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FireDragon76

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They will think of it for all eternity if they do not repent.

It's just those sorts of threats that don't engender respect for Christians.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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It's just those sorts of threats that don't engender respect for Christians.
Facts are not threats. They are certain my friend.
God did not send a multiple choice test down from heaven.
He sent His Son to suffer and die for or sinners.
If our sin was so wicked Jesus had to suffer as our substitute for everyone believing , I would not treat it so lightly as if you had any other option.
Snowflakes do not like straight truth and say it is arrogant and rude, but no one who God saves from their sins thinks that .
 
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awitch

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Facts are not threats. They are certain my friend.

No, they are very much your personal beliefs. Unless you'd like to hand over your secret collection of empirical evidence, they are not established facts.
 
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FireDragon76

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The fact is that all sin is going to be punished,in the sinner or the substitute.
It is not a question to be debated.
God is going to punish each and every sin.
Every idle word. We are guilty in need of mercy.

Then he should show mercy, regardless of what any of us finite beings happen to believe. If he created the world, he should take responsibility for it.
 
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Rajni

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Those who leave are apostates they were not actually Christians
They were religious but never saved.
1jn2:19
That statement is a good example of the No True
Scotsman fallacy.

It also suggests that True Christians™ are unteachable
and therefore unable to learn from new information and
make changes accordingly.

It is also against forum rules to insist that someone isn't
or wasn't a Christian. I would advise caution on that
front.
 
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Rubiks

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The "doesn't really have faith is he/she doesn't interpret the Bible the same way I do" argument is another prominent no true Scotsman fallacy on this website.
 
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Silmarien

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The fact is that all sin is going to be punished,in the sinner or the substitute.
It is not a question to be debated.
God is going to punish each and every sin.
Every idle word. We are guilty in need of mercy.

I worry that this is a somewhat unbalanced approach to the reality of sin. There have been comments in this thread about Christianity creating a toxic environment for people who struggle with self-acceptance, and while I disagree that the problem is the doctrine of sin itself (I think there are good reasons to hold that self-hatred is a particularly pernicious form of pride, and thus a manifestation of sin as well, see for example: Self-hatred, the forgotten human condition - Anthony Bradley), I am concerned that certain approaches to sin are just exacerbating the problem.

What would you say to someone who struggles with self-hatred? Hopefully not "your self-hatred is sinful and you deserve to be punished for it."
 
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