How many ex-Christians are there here on CF and reason for leaving Christianity?

[Rajni]

There's a world of difference between naturally occurring events and a deity throwing a temper tantrum.

Precisely.

Besides, an all-powerful God doesn't have the luxury of
throwing a tantrum when things don't go His way. With
power comes responsibility, therefore if one is *all*-
powerful, then it follows that one is *all*-
responsible. The all-powerful don't need to throw
tantrums, because a tantrum is a response of one who
feels helpless in the face of perceived adversity.

 

[cloudyday2]

I'm simply saying that what might be considered a True Christian
can be just as able to learn new things and change accordingly.
If they learn and change, that doesn't mean they were never
True Christians (whatever that means; it changes depending on
which sect one asks).

Of course if Christianity is true then there are probably certain key ideas about Jesus that a Christian comprehends and comes to believe at initiation. The author of 1 John was apparently arguing that accepting Jesus as the Jewish Messiah/Christ was this type of key idea. The acceptance of this idea is a metamorphosis that creates an umbilical cord between the new Christian and Jesus to sustain and guide. There can be changing views and differences of opinion between Christians on trivial issues, but no "true" Christian can ever fall away from Jesus. If a certifiably true Christian can be shown to have fallen away, then Christianity would be shown to be a fraud. Of course from the perspective of believers any examples can be dismissed as phony Christians who only SEEMED to be true Christians.

On the other hand, I think there is a Bible verse where the reader is warned not to fall away. Probably somebody else knows which verse.

Imagining an umbilical cord connecting a new Christian to Jesus gives a new perspective on the importance of regular participation in the Lord's Supper where the flesh and blood of Jesus are consumed (much like an umbilical cord). Diligence in prayer is probably similarly important for Christians. So neglecting the Lord's Supper might be a way for a true Christian to fall away and become an ex-Christian.

 

[Rajni]

If a certifiably true Christian can be shown to have fallen away, then Christianity would be shown to be a fraud.

Maybe not a fraud, just not the last rung on what turns out to
be a much higher ladder than was realized.

 

[cloudyday2]

Maybe not a fraud, just not the last rung on what turns out to
be a much higher ladder than was realized.

From the Christian perspective there is only one ladder going to only one destination - the Father. Everybody should want to join the Father and there is only one ladder to get there - Jesus. So how could anybody who knows the destination and knows the ladder want to exchange that for some magic beans? Obviously anybody who does that must not have been a true Christian.

Of course from my experience most Christians sometimes question whether they are true Christians and even question whether Christianity itself is true.

 

[Robban]

From the Christian perspective there is only one ladder going to only one destination - the Father. Everybody should want to join the Father and there is only one ladder to get there - Jesus. So how could anybody who knows the destination and knows the ladder want to exchange that for some magic beans? Obviously anybody who does that must not have been a true Christian.

Of course from my experience most Christians sometimes question whether they are true Christians and even question whether Christianity itself is true.

Rayjemas post was something like,

"No one starts to build a tower without first sitting down and working out the cost, getting half way and not being able to finish and therewith become a laughing stock.

So it is all about finding fault with something other than
one self.

But then what do I know about it, it just seemed similar.
May even have the example wrong too.

But it is strange that exchristians hang around a christian forum,
like taking out a divorce and then knocking on your ex,s door every day.

Amusing.

 

[FireDragon76]

Do you think Jesus thought differently of Himself, that He was just another prophet? What about Matt 16:13-17

13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He began asking His disciples, saying, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

That's just not persuasive to me.

 

[cloudyday2]

But it is strange that exchristians hang around a christian forum,
like taking out a divorce and then knocking on your ex,s door every day.

In my case it is that no other religion besides Christianity has much appeal to me. Atheism seems crummy even if it is true. Maybe it is partly nostalgia for the past. ... Imagine if you decided that the Torah is a hodge-podge of uninspired malarkey. You would feel like a "fish out of water", because the Torah was something you valued for much of your life. You might keep going back to make certain there isn't some way to salvage the Torah, because you would like for it to work again. ... That's how it is for me. ... Also I feel there might be something out there like God, but I am confused about what I need to do in response to that feeling. Christianity had some ideas about God and ideas about how to please God. I don't have that now.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

There was no flood, but if there was, I still would never honor any deity that would commit planetary genocide; including plants, animals, and children.

You say that because you do not see sin as an evil, in the same way a Holy God views sin.
All who rebel against God and His holiness hate God. In john 1 it says men love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil.

 

[cloudyday2]

You say that because you do not see sin as an evil, in the same way a Holy God views sin.
All who rebel against God and His holiness hate God. In john 1 it says men love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil.

What about all those plants and animals?

 

[awitch]

Life is the Lord's to give and to take, and there is a spirit world and an afterlife so it's hard for us to gauge if those infants feel they were done evil against them, but I'm encouraged to know that you are pro life.

No, life is not a toy to give and take as he pleases. A god who does is malevolent. It doesn't matter if they all went to paradise.

And yes, I am very pro-life. I do not support capital punishment. I support affordable healthcare for the people, I support reasonable gun control so children are not executed in mass shootings anymore. I support minimum wages so families can pay to put food on the table. I support comprehensive sex ed and access to birth control because they are exceptionally successful at reducing unwanted pregnancies

 

[Zoness]

I'm often told that since I do not follow the bible I cannot have a true moral or ethical system but looking at these casual defenses of horrid behavior I literally cannot understand that criticism.

 

[awitch]

You say that because you do not see sin as an evil, in the same way a Holy God views sin. All who rebel against God and His holiness hate God. In john 1 it says men love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil.

Your god tells you to write off everyone who doesn't believe as evil?
What kind of monster does that!?

You present nothing short of a god of fear mongering, jealousy, and vengeance.

When you boil away all the nonsense and baggage that Christians tie to him, I see a god who turns to humanity and says, "I know no one is perfect. I know you'll make bad decisions. But no matter how badly you screw up, if you ask me, and you are sincerely apologetic, I will ultimately forgive you."

That's a message of humility, hope, and redemption. And we're left to think, if god can forgive the worst of us, then maybe we can be a little quicker to forgive each other for the small stuff. Unfortunately, that spark of inspiration is lost the shouts of who to hate, who to vote for, who to give your money to, and passive aggressive threats of eternal torture.

 

[ananda]

in my experience... by existing richly and more fully. by paying more attention. prayer and directedness to God rather than busying yourself with less important things which the majority of the world is caught up in for the majority of the time. personal development. through goodness and truth. by noticing the beings that are always around us, but invisible. but I must note that I find myself more and more to be a micro of the macro reality and thus I am a vital part to it and can not know it without being of it. so I don't count myself as only a creature and I don't put as many limits or restraints on myself as most people do.

sorry to butt in more, your words give me things to reflect upon. what's wrong with having a creative interpretation of what you experience? but many will just use their own religious context to frame their experiences.

I wish more people would cut out "authoritarianism" from their concepts of God. it's so annoying that people pretend they are not the truth (when they have united with or have communion with it) and they act like it is something outside themselves, as something alien from them. people want to bend their knee so much that even truth is now something they must obey rather than it being their very life, experience, and understanding. they are captured by ignorance and the sophistry that their discursive experience and lower aspect gives them.

personalism makes expression of God a very personal and real thing. God as an close other is just finding God in someone else united to the Logos who is the fullness of all souls, who is the super-united becoming expression and end-goal of the experiential world, and true salvation. enlightenment is finding you are yourself united to the divine. thus two main experiences with God is an otherness experience and a sameness experience. negation and positive expression.

whatever measure you limit yourself to is the kind of measure you will receive. there are already certain limits in existing as a limited form. I would try to open up more rather than restrict more but maybe both ways are valid paths.

There is nothing wrong with having a creative interpretation of what you experience, but for Christians to say that they have a relationship with a specific being (which excludes other beings) without proof - such as intelligent conversation - that such experiences come specifically from that being is irrational to me.

As a Buddhist, my highest goal is parinibbana, in a communion with the highest realization of Buddha. Unity with God would represent its polar opposite.

 

[ananda]

Jesus “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6
Buddha - No Parallel Saying

Indeed, there can be no parallel saying, because our end goal - from our perspective - transcends "the Father": "many thousands of deities have gone for refuge for life to the recluse Gotama" Majjhima Nikaya 95.9.

 

[Rajni]

From the Christian perspective there is only one ladder going to only one destination - the Father. Everybody should want to join the Father and there is only one ladder to get there - Jesus. So how could anybody who knows the destination and knows the ladder want to exchange that for some magic beans? Obviously anybody who does that must not have been a true Christian.

Of course from my experience most Christians sometimes question whether they are true Christians and even question whether Christianity itself is true.

Well, that's just it: They thought they knew, and they thought the
rest was magic beans, but then concluded otherwise. They were
true Christians for as long as they were Christians. But even
true Christians can change their minds. I know Jesus calls them 'sheep'
but I don't think it means they stopped thinking.

 

[Rajni]

So it is all about finding fault with something other than
one self.

Nope. Try again.

 

[PloverWing]

Absolutely! Though I'm not a monolatrist I picked on Hathor because she's easy to describe. I've worked with other gods in the past.

Thanks! I really like this image of love in all its forms; I can see why this would touch you the way it has. I especially liked this:

She loves when others are happy and I hope to make that a goal of my life, to help others be happy while learning more about myself.

Can I ask how Hathor came to be the embodiment of love that was so important to you? I assume you didn't grow up with Egyptian polytheism, so that it wasn't a default choice for you. Of all the pantheons and religious images of love, what drew you to this one in particular?

 

[PloverWing]

When you boil away all the nonsense and baggage that Christians tie to him, I see a god who turns to humanity and says, "I know no one is perfect. I know you'll make bad decisions. But no matter how badly you screw up, if you ask me, and you are sincerely apologetic, I will ultimately forgive you."

That's a message of humility, hope, and redemption. And we're left to think, if god can forgive the worst of us, then maybe we can be a little quicker to forgive each other for the small stuff.

This is a really good summary of the heart of Christianity.

And yes, I agree that it can be hard to hear this message amidst all the stuff that Christians do and say.

 

[Robban]

Nope. Try again.

Try what again?

 

[Robban]

In my case it is that no other religion besides Christianity has much appeal to me. Atheism seems crummy even if it is true. Maybe it is partly nostalgia for the past. ... Imagine if you decided that the Torah is a hodge-podge of uninspired malarkey. You would feel like a "fish out of water", because the Torah was something you valued for much of your life. You might keep going back to make certain there isn't some way to salvage the Torah, because you would like for it to work again. ... That's how it is for me. ... Also I feel there might be something out there like God, but I am confused about what I need to do in response to that feeling. Christianity had some ideas about God and ideas about how to please God. I don't have that now.

In July this year my boat exploded taking with it everything I needed in everyday living,

Bought another one, in it there is a sticker,
it is a guy with inflateable rings around his arms, a lifebouy around his waist,

under it says,
"Cry baby"
Don,t know what to make of it, but think it is amusing,
so it stays.

Do not know either what it has to do with the thread, but there has to be something in it,
haha.