How Many Evenings are in a Day?

[Leaf473]

One of the elementary points I was making is that to understand what I said you would need to study days, and months, and appointed times, and years, (Galatians 4:10), as expounded in the scripture. The secondary point, I suppose, would be that Paul is not necessarily saying what people often seem to assume in that statement, (Gal 4:10).

Again, I invite you to explain in more detail on a different thread.

If you don't want to, that's fine.

Peace be with you

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Really? As in the past, my position has been similar to yours; I believe that you are mistaken. Maybe you're thinking of someone else.

It was not someone else...

 

[Filippus]

So was Yahshua executed on the Passover or not?

No He was not!

I am assuming you are referring to the 14th. And it cannot be the 15th either, because it was a Sabbath.

This is clearly identified in Matt 26:17-19, Mark 14:12-16 and Luke 22:7-13.
Placing Him on the evening of the 15th celebrating the Passover when He introduced the New Covenant. This timing is more important than people in general comprehend, and is sacrificed in favor of tradition.

People don't accept this because they have this predetermined notion that Jesus had to die with the Passover lambs ignoring the above scriptures. This is because they cannot combine the 3 days and nights and place it before a High Sabbath and have Jesus celebrating the Passover.

Yet scripture clearly places Jesus alive and well on the 15th.

This also explains the timing in John 19:14, which was Jewish timing not Roman.

Wouldn't that depend on when the day begins, morning or evening?

This is not really a debatable point, Scripture is clear when the day starts and is historically well supported. People reject it only in support of their own narrative.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

It was not someone else...

Link?

 

[guevaraj]

We all know that the first day of Matzot is the fifteenth and is not the day wherein the Pesach is to be sacrificed. This is quite obviously the fourteenth and not the fifteenth: what therefore is the most likely problem? It's a translation issue and not a problem with the Greek text.

Wouldn't that depend on when the day begins, morning or evening?

Brothers, God's word below and your statements as people familiar with Jewish customs, confirm my understanding of Genesis. The days of the week of creation are from morning to morning and God's calendar is based on the time zone of creation, where the days of the month fall in Jerusalem from evening to evening. The second half of Nissan 14 and the first half of Nissan 15 both fall on the same day of the week in Jerusalem, from morning to morning.

Now came the day of unleavened bread, in which the Passover must be sacrificed. (Luke 22:7 CLV)​

This is further confirmed by “Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin”, although he sees it as an exception rather than the established definition of the days of the week of creation in Genesis from morning to morning.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

The Rabbi admits that the previous passage assumes a day from morning to morning, although he does not consider it as the definition established in Genesis, but as an exception in his comment below. There may be many other passages that would benefit from understanding the days as established in Genesis to better understand all the messages of God in His word.

if you were given one day to eat an offering, the day consisted of the daytime followed by its night (unlike all other purposes, for which Jewish calendar days consist of the night followed by the day). Thus, as far as sacrifices are concerned, the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought. Therefore, when it comes to the celebration of the Passover sacrifice, while it was eaten on the 15th, it was considered to be the same day as the 14th. (Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[HARK!]

This is clearly identified in Matt 26:17-19, Mark 14:12-16 and Luke 22:7-13.
Placing Him on the evening of the 15th celebrating the Passover when He introduced the New Covenant. This timing is more important than people in general comprehend, and is sacrificed in favor of tradition.

So how does this fit in?:

(CLV) Jn 18:28
They are, then, leading Jesus from Caiaphas into the pretorium. Now it was morning, and they did not enter into the pretorium lest they may be defiled, but may be eating the passover.

 

[Filippus]

So how does this fit in?:

(CLV) Jn 18:28
They are, then, leading Jesus from Caiaphas into the pretorium. Now it was morning, and they did not enter into the pretorium lest they may be defiled, but may be eating the passover.

We need to take a closer look at the ceremonial cleansing laws to resolve this one.

You assume they are referring to the Pesach meal that evening, yet the word Passover is also used for the feast of Unleavened Bread and therefore can mean anyone of the two, but which one?

If you are defiled today by touching something unclean, you will be ceremonial clean after sunset, allowing them to take part in the Pesach.

And therefore they were not referring to the Pesach, but to something celebrated during the day.

This actually provides the evidence to further support the opposit of what you are proposing.

This scripture clearly identify that they wanted to take part in the celebration on that day of the 15th not that evening.

Now during the feast of unleavened bread each day required special celebrations, however on both Annual Sabbaths there was special celebrations.

Now if they were ritually unpure they would miss the celebrations during the day, but not the night.

Thus in conclusion this scripture actually proves the opposite, that they were at the Pretorium during the day, mostlikely the 15th, further supporting the fact that Jesus celebrated the Passover the previous night.

This is known as "Chagigah" the Pilgrimage offering and required ritual purity.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

We need to take a closer look at the ceremonial cleansing laws to resolve this one.

You assume they are referring to the Pesach meal that evening, yet the word Passover is also used for the feast of Unleavened Bread and therefore can mean anyone of the two, but which one?

If you are defiled today by touching something unclean, you will be ceremonial clean after sunset, allowing them to take part in the Pesach.

And therefore they were not referring to the Pesach, but to something celebrated during the day.

This actually provides the evidence to further support the opposit of what you are proposing.

This scripture clearly identify that they wanted to take part in the celebration on that day of the 15th not that evening.

Now during the feast of unleavened bread each day required special celebrations, however on both Annual Sabbaths there was special celebrations.

Now if they were ritually unpure they would miss the celebrations during the day, but not the night.

Thus in conclusion this scripture actually proves the opposite, that they were at the Pretorium during the day, mostlikely the 15th, further supporting the fact that Jesus celebrated the Passover the previous night.

This is known as "Chagigah" the Pilgrimage offering and required ritual purity.

Shalom

Then how do you explain this verse?:

(CLV) Jn 19:14
Now it was the preparation of the Passover; the hour was about the third. And he is saying to the Jews, "Lo! your king!"

 

[Filippus]

Then how do you explain this verse?:

(CLV) Jn 19:14
Now it was the preparation of the Passover; the hour was about the third. And he is saying to the Jews, "Lo! your king!"

Good question.

Well let me start by asking why do most people believe that the capture, trail and crucifixion occured in +-6 hours?

This verse clearly disproves this, it is that simple, yet ignored by everyone!

Now this verse is a good example of how far people are prepared to go to twist scripture to make their view even possible.

The Gospels gives us the time frame for the crucifixion:
3rd hour = crucifixion
6th hour = darkness
9th hour = His death

John places this trail at noon, right in the middle. Therefore the narrative suggesting that the capture, trail and crucifixion occured in +-6 hours are eliminated and John proves that it must have occurred over at least two days, again overlooked and ignored in favor of a flawed narrative.

Now to give them a fighting chance, they argue that John used Roman time, how convenient? This without any evidence!

Now I reject that it was Roman time, because if it was it would have been specified. And being scripture it is expected to be Hebrew time, all the other books are.

Conclusion is that this scripture clearly proves that the capture and crucifixion occured over minimum two days. Which leads to the mystery of how Jesus fulfilled the Feast of unleavened bread, the feast everyone ignores to explain!

Claiming the crucifiction on the 14, 15th, does not explain how He fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which was by the way the National Feast that they were called up to Jerusalem in the first place.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

Then how do you explain this verse?:

(CLV) Jn 19:14
Now it was the preparation of the Passover; the hour was about the third. And he is saying to the Jews, "Lo! your king!"

Hark I know you love the CLV, but John 19:14 doesn't say third hour, it was the sixth hour.

Shalom

 

[guevaraj]

Hark I know you love the CLV, but John 19:14 doesn't say third hour, it was the sixth hour. Shalom

Brothers, I can confirm that God wrote the "sixth" and not the third. Guaranteed by the counting in the book of Revelation for the seals, where the same word is used in the original Greek in the passage of interest to introduce the "sixth" seal below.

I watched as the Lamb broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake. The sun became as dark as black cloth, and the moon became as red as blood. Then the stars of the sky fell to the earth like green figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind. The sky was rolled up like a scroll, and all of the mountains and islands were moved from their places. (Revelation 6:12-14 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Filippus]

Then how do you explain this verse?:

(CLV) Jn 19:14
Now it was the preparation of the Passover; the hour was about the third. And he is saying to the Jews, "Lo! your king!"

Now some people who are brave enough identified that Jesus is alive and well the evening of the 15th which is listed in Matt 26:17-19 Mark 14:12-16 and Luke 22:7-13.

Yet they interpret that Jesus was crucified on the 15th.

Now at least they started correctly, but it is John 19:14, that proves them wrong, together with the fact that the 15th was a Annual Sabbath.

And that is why the trial most likely
occurred over three days. This is confirmed by the Didascalia.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

Hark I know you love the CLV, but John 19:14 doesn't say third hour, it was the sixth hour.

Shalom

Good catch. I like the CLV because it is a literal translation; and it tends to conform to the Critical Text. Looks like there might be some monkey business with what they did to that verse.

I suppose that they harmonized it with this one:

New International Version
It was nine in the morning when they crucified him.

New Living Translation
It was nine o’clock in the morning when they crucified him.

English Standard Version
And it was the third hour when they crucified him.

Berean Study Bible
It was the third hour when they crucified Him.

Berean Literal Bible
And it was the third hour, and they crucified Him.

King James Bible
And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

New King James Version
Now it was the third hour, and they crucified Him.

New American Standard Bible
Now it was the third hour when they crucified Him.

NASB 1995
It was the third hour when they crucified Him.

NASB 1977
And it was the third hour when they crucified Him.

Amplified Bible
It was the third hour (9:00 a.m.) when they crucified Him.

Christian Standard Bible
Now it was nine in the morning when they crucified him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now it was nine in the morning when they crucified Him.

American Standard Version
And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But it was the third hour when they crucified him.

Contemporary English Version
It was about nine o'clock in the morning when they nailed him to the cross.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

Good News Translation
It was nine o'clock in the morning when they crucified him.

International Standard Version
It was nine in the morning when they crucified him.

Literal Standard Version
and it was the third hour, and they crucified Him;

New American Bible
It was nine o’clock in the morning when they crucified him.

NET Bible
It was nine o'clock in the morning when they crucified him.

New Revised Standard Version
It was nine o’clock in the morning when they crucified him.

New Heart English Bible
It was nine in the morning, and they crucified him.

Weymouth New Testament
It was nine o'clock in the morning when they crucified Him.

World English Bible
It was the third hour, and they crucified him.

Young's Literal Translation
and it was the third hour, and they crucified him;


However, that's not what I'm looking for in a literal translation.

 

[HARK!]

Now some people who are brave enough identified that Jesus is alive and well the evening of the 15th which is listed in Matt 26:17-19 Mark 14:12-16 and Luke 22:7-13.

Yet they interpret that Jesus was crucified on the 15th.

Now at least they started correctly, but it is John 19:14, that proves them wrong, together with the fact that the 15th was a Annual Sabbath.

And that is why the trial most likely
occurred over three days. This is confirmed by the Didascalia.

Shalom

Didascalia Apostolorum, or just Didascalia, is a Christian legal treatise which belongs to the genre of the Church Orders. It presents itself as being written by the Twelve Apostles at the time of the Council of Jerusalem; however, scholars agree that it was actually a composition of the 3rd century, perhaps around 230 AD.[1]

Didascalia Apostolorum - Wikipedia

Obviously not an eye witness account. I have serious reservations about considering writings from this late date as confirmation.

 

[Filippus]

Didascalia Apostolorum, or just Didascalia, is a Christian legal treatise which belongs to the genre of the Church Orders. It presents itself as being written by the Twelve Apostles at the time of the Council of Jerusalem; however, scholars agree that it was actually a composition of the 3rd century, perhaps around 230 AD.[1]

Didascalia Apostolorum - Wikipedia

Obviously not an eye witness account. I have serious reservations about considering writings from this late date as confirmation.

Never claimed it was an eye witness account, but it shows that it is not a new concept and that it was accepted during the early church, only to be forgotten and replaced by the western Roman church dominant view of today. The same church who made a conscious decision to not follow the Hebrew traditions.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

However, that's not what I'm looking for in a literal translation.

Agree if they claim it to be a literal translation they shouldn't attempt to harmonize the translation.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

The same church who made a conscious decision to not follow the Hebrew traditions.

Shalom

Would that include the Hebrew tradition not to lie?

It presents itself as being written by the Twelve Apostles at the time of the Council of Jerusalem; however, scholars agree that it was actually a composition of the 3rd century, perhaps around 230 AD.[1]

 

[Filippus]

Didascalia Apostolorum, or just Didascalia, is a Christian legal treatise which belongs to the genre of the Church Orders. It presents itself as being written by the Twelve Apostles at the time of the Council of Jerusalem; however, scholars agree that it was actually a composition of the 3rd century, perhaps around 230 AD.[1]

Didascalia Apostolorum - Wikipedia

Obviously not an eye witness account. I have serious reservations about considering writings from this late date as confirmation.

Again the scriptures that I have pointed out locks in certain dates, which cannot be move and therefore the rest of the narrative must submit to it, not the other way around.

Most interpretation start at the end and work backwards, defining and placing the crucifixion first, the primary scripture being John 19:31.

Then all the odd ball scriptures are bent and twisted to make it fit.

With the scriptures placing Jesus at the Passover table being ignored or simply reinterpretated to support their narrative.
Now if I wanted to explain Ex12:6, all I need to reference is the three Gospels which explains it really well, yet people argue against it because then they had to change their view. And most people believe they have the interpretation correct, so it boils down to are they looking for answers or to further support their narrative.

Now if you consider John 19:31, it only proves one thing and that is that the crucifixion occured before a High Sabbath, and I can identify three candidates, yet people choose the first one which is clearly eliminated by the gospels.

Again it boils down to their motive.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

Would that include the Hebrew tradition not to lie?

What is your point?

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

What is your point?

Was the author of the Didascalia present at the Council of Jerusalem or not?