How Many Evenings are in a Day?

[HARK!]

Then he summoned Moses and Aaron by night and said, “Up, go out from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said.
Exodus 12:31 ESV

That's very interesting. I'll need to study this more carefully.

What do you make of this verse?:

(CLV) Jn 13:29
For some supposed, since Judas had the coffer, that Jesus is saying to him, "Buy what we have need of for the festival," or, that he may be giving something to the poor.

Is it OK to buy and sell at the time of the night of the Pesach meal?

 

[Filippus]

I thought that we went over this already.

(CLV) Jn 19:14
Now it was the preparation of the Passover; the hour was about the third. And he is saying to the Jews, "Lo! your king!"

I agree but why insist on the 3rd hour if it says sixth hour?

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

The Wikipedia article claimed that it is a misrepresentation of the truth. Can you refute the evidence that I provided?

Because I agree that this document is not without error.

This still doesn't diminish the fact that there were people in the 3rd century believing and explaining the capture trial and crucifixion over the week of Unleavened Bread, which corresponds with the Gospels.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

Agree but are you arguing that they weren't working in the Temple during Messiah?

I'm arguing that they were at Betharaba, in the Wilderness, where they, "The Way, (That's what they called themselves. Sound familiar?)" were making the way, for the voice crying out in the Wilderness. Their writings prophesized of Yochanan and Messiah, and they felt charged with making the way for them. The Zadokites were ousted form the Temple; and they took their scrolls with them. Yochanan's father was a Zadokite; so Yochanan was in line for that title. Why do you suppose that so many flocked to the wilderness to hear Yochanan, when the could have just gone to the imposters at the Temple?

 

[HARK!]

I agree but why insist on the 3rd hour if it says sixth hour?

Insist? Do you mean as in defend the mistranslation in the CLV? I didn't. How do you reconcile the different accounts?

 

[HARK!]

Because I agree that this document is not without error.

This still doesn't diminish the fact that there were people in the 3rd century believing and explaining the capture trial and crucifixion over the week of Unleavened Bread, which corresponds with the Gospels.

I don't put my faith in those people. You have yet to bring clarity to a timeline that includes all of the scripture concerning the time shortly before, during, and after Yahshua's execution.

I'm not satisfied with a conclusion that is not supported by all of the relevant scripture.

 

[daq]

Brothers, God's word below and your statements as people familiar with Jewish customs, confirm my understanding of Genesis. The days of the week of creation are from morning to morning and God's calendar is based on the time zone of creation, where the days of the month fall in Jerusalem from evening to evening. The second half of Nissan 14 and the first half of Nissan 15 both fall on the same day of the week in Jerusalem, from morning to morning.

Now came the day of unleavened bread, in which the Passover must be sacrificed. (Luke 22:7 CLV)​

This is further confirmed by “Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin”, although he sees it as an exception rather than the established definition of the days of the week of creation in Genesis from morning to morning.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

The Rabbi admits that the previous passage assumes a day from morning to morning, although he does not consider it as the definition established in Genesis, but as an exception in his comment below. There may be many other passages that would benefit from understanding the days as established in Genesis to better understand all the messages of God in His word.

if you were given one day to eat an offering, the day consisted of the daytime followed by its night (unlike all other purposes, for which Jewish calendar days consist of the night followed by the day). Thus, as far as sacrifices are concerned, the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought. Therefore, when it comes to the celebration of the Passover sacrifice, while it was eaten on the 15th, it was considered to be the same day as the 14th. (Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Thanks for this, it proves two things to me: for one, it proves your confirmation bias because if you had not ignored everything that was said from the scripture in the sacred and civil calendar days thread you might have understood the answer by now. And for two, it proves the insinuation made by Studyman against me, in another post earlier in this thread, to be a false insinuation: for surely the Rabbi you have quoted knows the Talmud, and yet, he still doesn't understand the meaning of the phrase between the evenings because he follows the Talmudic traditions and calendar of the Pharisees.

There are twelve evening portions of the hour in a twelve hour day because, again, the hour is based on the same pattern as the full day, and therefore every hour of the twelve hour civil calendar day has a morning portion of the hour and an evening portion of the hour: and every hour of the seven hour sacred calendar day as an evening portion of the hour and a morning portion of the hour. Moreover the full day has six hours of morning and six hours of evening, being divided in half, and therefore evening time commences in the tzohorim. The Pesach is to be sacrificed both between the evenings, Exodus 12:6, and at evening, Exodus 12:18, and there is only one half hour portion of the full day which corresponds to and fulfills these two ordinances.

 

[guevaraj]

I had already presented this verse in this thread. Did you read the post that I responded to? How do you reconcile the two?

Brother, happy Sabbath! Yes, I read post 166. I reconcile Jesus celebrating Passover with His disciples and Jesus' subsequent death as our "Passover Lamb" below by inserting an unmentioned year of imprisonment between Caiaphas condemning Jesus for blasphemy and when Jesus is brought before Pilate to be crucified.

Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7b-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[HARK!]

Brother, happy Sabbath! Yes, I read post 166. I reconcile Jesus celebrating Passover with His disciples and Jesus' subsequent death as our "Passover Lamb" below by inserting an unmentioned year of imprisonment between Caiaphas condemning Jesus for blasphemy and when Jesus is brought before Pilate to be crucified.

Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7b-8 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Shabbat shalom Jorge,

A year?

How do you get a year between these verses...:

(CLV) Mk 14:12
And on the first day of unleavened bread, when they sacrificed the passover, His disciples are saying to Him, "Where dost Thou want us to come away that we should be making ready, that Thou mayest eat the passover?"

(CLV) Lk 22:7
Now came the day of unleavened bread, in which the passover must be sacrificed.

(CLV) Lk 22:8
And He dispatches Peter and John, saying, "|Go and make ready for us the passover, that we may be eating."

(CLV) Mt 26:17
Now, on the first day of unleavened bread, the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, "Where art Thou wanting we should be making ready for Thee to be eating the passover?"


...and this verse:

(CLV) Jn 18:28
They are, then, leading Jesus from Caiaphas into the pretorium. Now it was morning, and they/ did not enter into the pretorium lest they may be |defiled, but may be eating the passover.


I'd like to see the math. Please show your work, with a detailed explanation; so that all can understand.

I've taken calculus; and I'm having great difficulty understanding what a proposed year in prison has to do with breaking down this sequence of events.

 

[guevaraj]

the phrase between the evenings

Brother, happy Sabbath! That is not a good translation. There is only one "evening" on the first day of creation. The phrase is best translated: "above evening", that is, before evening.

“Take special care of this chosen animal until the evening of the fourteenth day of this first month. Then the whole assembly of the community of Israel must slaughter their lamb or young goat above evening. (Exodus 12:6 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[HARK!]

Brother, happy Sabbath! That is not a good translation. There is only one "evening" on the first day of creation. The phrase is best translated: "above evening", that is, before evening.

“Take special care of this chosen animal until the evening of the fourteenth day of this first month. Then the whole assembly of the community of Israel must slaughter their lamb or young goat above evening. (Exodus 12:6 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I'm using a literal translation.

Here is what I get.:

(CLV) Ex 12:6
And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. Then they will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours.

The words in grey were added for better sentence flow.

What manuscript was your translation derived from?

 

[guevaraj]

What manuscript was your translation derived from?

Brother, I used the first result in Google for the following keywords: "exodus 12:6 interlinear". The search gave me the following link: "Exodus 12:6 Interlinear". Reading the original Hebrew text from right to left, the last two words, numbered 996 and 6153, form the phrase in question. 6153 is the word for "evening" found on Genesis' first day. The apparent translation for more than one evening on a weekday must be by translating the word numbered 996. Below are the options based on the translations of that word within the entire Bible. "Between" is the most common translation, but not the only translation of the word. I chose the first example in the list below because it doesn't give the idea of more than one "evening" on a day of the week.

above* (1), among (30), among* (1), between (204), champion* (2), either (2), forehead* (5), midst (3), once (1), or (1), whether (1), within (1).​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[HARK!]

Brother, I used the first result in Google for the following keywords: "exodus 12:6 interlinear". The search gave me the following link: "Exodus 12:6 Interlinear".

I followed your link here is what I get:

It seems that the NAS has taken some unjustified liberty with this word, which is out of step with other translators.

The Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The word is to be translated as "between.

 

[daq]

Brother, happy Sabbath! That is not a good translation. There is only one "evening" on the first day of creation. The phrase is best translated: "above evening", that is, before evening.

“Take special care of this chosen animal until the evening of the fourteenth day of this first month. Then the whole assembly of the community of Israel must slaughter their lamb or young goat above evening. (Exodus 12:6 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Between the evenings:

1) The Pesach - Exodus 12:6
2) The Basar (Shilo) - Exodus 16:12
3) The evening oblation - Exodus 29:39-41
4) The Incense Exodus 30:8
5) The Lamps - Exodus 30:8

The Pesach - Leviticus 23:5
The Pesach - Numbers 9:3-5
Pesach Sheni - Numbers 9:11
The evening oblation - Numbers 28:1-8

So now you have invented a night service and have changed the Pesach, the Basar, the evening oblation, the incense, and the lighting of the lamps at the time of evening.

John 11:9-10 ASV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If a man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because the light is not in him.

And the following speaks not of sunlight and daylight but of the light and yom of Genesis 1:3-5.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-5 ASV
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

This is the same yom-light-truth of Genesis 1:3-5, (and John 1:1-5), which you have already said and have insisted is the light of the sun.

 

[HARK!]

1 Thessalonians 5:4-5 ASV
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

War Scroll (1QM)

(1)For the In[structor, the Rule of] the War. The first attack of the Sons of Light shall be undertaken against the forces of the Sons of Darkness

War Scroll (1QM)

 

[daq]

War Scroll (1QM)

(1)For the In[structor, the Rule of] the War. The first attack of the Sons of Light shall be undertaken against the forces of the Sons of Darkness

War Scroll (1QM)

John 12:36 ASV
36 While ye have the light, believe on the light, that ye may become sons of light. These things spake Jesus, and he departed and hid himself from them.

Acts 24:5 ASV
5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of insurrections among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

 

[Leaf473]

The Zadok Priesthood were charged with preserving and teaching scripture. The Book of Enoch is scripture. Yahshua and his disciples quoted it or eluded to it, more than any other book in your Bible..

I think we talked about Enoch earlier in this thread. I certainly don't want to derail the topic, but which canon do you use? Do you have a list handy, possibly posted on a different thread?

 

[guevaraj]

It seems that the NAS has taken some unjustified liberty with this word, which is out of step with other translators... The word is to be translated as "between.

Brother, not always according to your own choice of translation below, where the word is translated "above" and not between.

And it has strong rods for sceptres of rulers, And high is its stature above (bayin) thick branches, And it appears in its height In the multitude of its thin shoots." (Ezekiel 19:11 CLV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[HARK!]

I think we talked about Enoch earlier in this thread. I certainly don't want to derail the topic, but which canon do you use? Do you have a list handy, possibly posted on a different thread?

I don't subscribe to a canon in particular. I try look at each book as a separate work. That is how it was done before canons were created by man.

 

[Leaf473]

I don't subscribe to a canon in particular. I try look at each book as a separate work. That is how it was done before canons were created by man.

Please say which books you currently consider scripture, if you wish.