How Many Evenings are in a Day?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What about John 20:17?

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Daq, I asked HARK! when would Yom HaBikkurim be on the "Zadokite" calander but he never answered. I asked was it on the 16th or on the 19th? Here it seems it is on the 26th!!! Why is that?

 

[HARK!]

This your own post is why I asked you the question that I did. Why therefore would you start asking me what you now do when I didn't post anything about swearing an oath or binding myself to anything? Moreover you then posted the quote from the first chapter of the book of Jubilees after you had claimed that it is Torah, as follows.

I haven't sworn an oath but I do my best to bind myself to YHWH's Torah. Understand what is Torah is the first step in understanding Torah. Understanding Torah is the first step in obedience to the Torah. Wouldn't you agree?

I addressed this egregious error on the part of the author of Jubilees in the same post after I asked you the question which I did. The author of Jubilees is clearly attempting to substantiate a calendar with what he deems to be support by the mouth of an angel or angels. I however do not believe the Torah agrees with his calendar, and I just showed you why in that post where I responded to this above.

Are you now suggesting that Jubilees 1:1 is correct and the Torah is incorrect in the passages I cited? particularly the chronological time references starting from Exodus 19:1 through to Exodus 24:16?

From where does Jubilees 1:1, (which you quoted), derive its statement that Exodus 24:12 is the sixteenth day of the third month?

Exodus 24:12 is not the sixteenth day of the third month according to the Torah. The only way to come up with such a date is to count the word hodesh in Exodus 19:1 as though it is not the first day of the new month, and then pick and choose which day of the third month you would like it to be, so as to support your calendar theory: which is what the author of Jubilees apparently did.

I cross examined your reply; and you didn't respond to my cross examination; unless you want to count this as the response. This response isn't adequate for me. The Zadokites were charged with preserving YHWH's word, and teaching YHWH's word. They were well aware of the Pentateuch, and had variant copies of those books. Yahshua and his disciples quoted from Enoch and Jubilees; so obviously they considered it to be scripture. This all carries much weight with me; and I'm not so easy to dismiss these books; simply because the Pharisees rejected them. I look for ways to harmonize scripture. If I can't then I first suspect that it is my understanding that needs to be reevaluated. However, I always keep in mind that the MS is just one variant of what was given to Moshe.

 

[HARK!]

What about John 20:17?

What about it?

 

[HARK!]

Daq, I asked HARK! when would Yom HaBikkurim be on the "Zadokite" calander but he never answered. I asked was it on the 16th or on the 19th? Here it seems it is on the 26th!!! Why is that?

One of the areas of debate between the Sadducees and the Pharisees concerned the calendar. Leviticus 23:15-16 began the tabulation for the Feast of Weeks using the expression "on the day after the Sabbath." The Sadducees said that "Sabbath" meant the Sabbath, and so the feast of Weeks always fell on a Sunday. But the Pharisees ruled that "Sabbath" was the first day of Passover, whatever that day was, and so the feast of Weeks could actually come on any day.21

3. The Sadducees | Bible.org

Why is that?

 

[Leaf473]

Yahshua and his disciples quoted from Enoch and Jubilees...

Well, now... That's interesting! Can you give details? Or are they maybe already on a different thread?

 

[HARK!]

Well, now... That's interesting! Can you give details? Or are they maybe already on a different thread?

I have threads which touch on these subjects here: The Book of Enoch

And here: MJ Only - Jubilees is Torah According to 4Q266

 

[daq]

Daq, I asked HARK! when would Yom HaBikkurim be on the "Zadokite" calander but he never answered. I asked was it on the 16th or on the 19th? Here it seems it is on the 26th!!! Why is that?

Because that version, (from the "Zadok Way" website), is apparently doing their best to keep that calendar as true as possible to the information that has been recovered in the DSS and that is how those at Damascus, (a.k.a. Qumran), apparently did understand and observe the calendar, (although Zadok Way also intercalates a week into this calendar, which information has not been found anywhere in the DSS).

The commencement of the year, 1 Abib, was always on the fourth day of the week. The calendar thus works out the way they have it at Zadok Way, and I see that HARK has now answered with the most relevant passage to the age-long argument over the date of the firstfruits wave offering, (surely you are aware of this long standing dispute?).

You can see how they understood those passages in the calendar, and the Zadok Way calendar image which I posted above appears to be an accurate representation of what was believed and observed at Damascus.

 

[Filippus]

One of the areas of debate between the Sadducees and the Pharisees concerned the calendar. Leviticus 23:15-16 began the tabulation for the Feast of Weeks using the expression "on the day after the Sabbath." The Sadducees said that "Sabbath" meant the Sabbath, and so the feast of Weeks always fell on a Sunday. But the Pharisees ruled that "Sabbath" was the first day of Passover, whatever that day was, and so the feast of Weeks could actually come on any day.21

3. The Sadducees | Bible.org

Why is that?

The answer lies in Christianity.

Jesus rose on the first day of the week, the day after the weekly Sabbath.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the FirstFruits of those who have fallen asleep.

Shalom

 

[daq]

What about it?

If one sees it as a reference to firstfruits then it does not agree with the first month calendar page which I posted from the Zadokite calendar in that same post.

There is also the statement which Filippus just quoted above, 1 Corinthians 15:20, most likely referring to the same issue.

Moreover, when we look at the third month on the Zadok Way Zadokite calendar, we see where the author of Jubilees gets his date for Exodus 24:12 as supposedly having been the sixteenth day of the third month, (Jubilees 1:1).

The author of Jubilees sees Exodus 24:12 as falling the day after Omer 50, Shabuot, (or Pentecost), which was the sixteenth day of the third month on his calendar. This would mean that Exodus 24:12 is the second day of the week, just as it shows on the Zadokite calendar herein above, and therefore it would mean that the glory covered the mountain for six days: and the sixth of those six days lands on the seventh day, and therefore the next day, (which is called the seventh day in the text of the Torah), is the day that the Most High called unto Mosheh, making Exodus 24:16c the first day of the week instead of the seventh day.

You may not have seen or realized it but these things were already refuted in post #114.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

One of the areas of debate between the Sadducees and the Pharisees concerned the calendar. Leviticus 23:15-16 began the tabulation for the Feast of Weeks using the expression "on the day after the Sabbath." The Sadducees said that "Sabbath" meant the Sabbath, and so the feast of Weeks always fell on a Sunday. But the Pharisees ruled that "Sabbath" was the first day of Passover, whatever that day was, and so the feast of Weeks could actually come on any day.

I know that. That was not the answer to the question I asked...

 

[HARK!]

I know that. That was not the answer to the question I asked...

Do you know the answer to either of the questions?

I'm on a fact finding mission.

 

[HARK!]

The answer lies in Christianity.

Jesus rose on the first day of the week, the day after the weekly Sabbath.

That is how some translators render it; but this takes us back to the title of the thread.

 

[HARK!]

therefore the next day, (which is called the seventh day in the text of the Torah), is the day that the Most High called unto Mosheh, making Exodus 24:16c the first day of the week instead of the seventh day.

(CLV) Ex 24:16
and the glory of Yahweh tabernacled over Mount Sinai. The cloud |covered it six days. Then Yahweh called to Moses ion the seventh day from the midst of the cloud.

This verse does not mention the word week, nor the word sabbath.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that this day must have been the sabbath?


Shavuot Calendar 2022

During the course of the holiday we don’t go to work, drive, write, or switch on or off electric devices. We are permitted to cook, to kindle a stove with a flame that existed before the holiday (or which was lit from such a flame), and to carry outdoors.



Shabbat,
Sivan 5—June 4

Shavuot eve (Erev Shavuot)

It is customary to decorate synagogues and homes with flowers and boughs. All decorations must be done on Friday before the onset of Shabbat.

The holiday of Shavuot begins tonight.

After Shabbat has ended, women and girls light candles tonight to usher in the holiday. Click here for candle-lighting times in your city, and click here for the blessings one recites while lighting.

After the holiday evening prayers, a festive holiday meal, complete with the recitation of the holiday kiddush, is enjoyed.

On this night it is customary to remain awake and study Torah until dawn.




Sunday,
Sivan 6—June 5

First day of Shavuot
Torah reading: Exodus 19:1–20:23; Numbers 28:26–31
Haftorah: Ezekiel 1:1–28; 3:12

Reading of the Ten Commandments.

All men, women and children should go to the synagogue to hear the reading of the Ten Commandments. Click here to find a synagogue near you.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson, of righteous memory, encouraged the bringing of even the youngest of children to the reading of the Ten Commandments in the synagogue on Shavuot. This is in commemoration of the Jewish people declaring: “Our children are our guarantors [that we will keep the Torah].” This, the Midrash states, was the only guarantee acceptable to G‑d.

The priests bless the congregation with the Priestly Blessing during the Musaf prayer.

Many communities chant the Akdamut poem before the reading of the Torah.

Kiddush is recited, and a holiday meal follows.

It is customary to eat dairy foods today. Click here for delicious dairy recipes.


Candle-lighting, from a pre-existing flame, before nightfall. Click here for candle-lighting times in your city, and and click here for the blessings.

In some communities, whoever will say yizkor tomorrow lights a yahrtzeit candle tonight, also from a pre-existing flame.

After the holiday evening prayers, a festive holiday meal, complete with the recitation of the holiday kiddush, is again enjoyed.





Monday
Sivan 7—June 6

Second day of Shavuot
Torah reading: Deuteronomy 15:19–16:17; Numbers 28:26–31
Haftarah: Habakkuk 2:20–3:19

The Yizkor memorial service is recited (and charity is pledged) for the souls of departed loved ones.

The priests bless the congregation with the Priestly Blessing during the Musaf prayer.

Kiddush is recited, and a holiday meal follows.

Some communities have the custom to read the Book of Ruth on the second day of Shavuot.

The holiday ends tonight at nightfall. Click here for end of holiday times in your location.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2144/jewish/Shavuot-Calendar-2022.htm

 

[HARK!]

The answer lies in Christianity.

Jesus rose on the first day of the week, the day after the weekly Sabbath.

That is how some translators render it. As we read through the Gospels, the accounts become very confusing. If two different calendars were in use; it might clear up some of this confusion.

 

[daq]

How do you arrive at the conclusion that this day must have been the sabbath?

I didn't say that it absolutely must be a weekly Shabbat. However, according to my understanding of the calendar, (as shown in the image file I posted in reply #114), it is indeed a weekly Shabbat.

Therefore which is better? for the text actually does say the seventh day even though it does not specifically state that the weekly Shabbat is specifically intended.

Moreover it is not that I worked out my understanding of the calendar to make it this way, no, that's just how it fell together after following all the other statues, ordinances, statements, and clues in the scripture.

And once I saw this, (after the fact), I realized it fits the pattern of the weekly Shabbat. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Shabbat. And the glory of YHWH abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day He called unto Mosheh out of the midst of the cloud.

 

[Leaf473]

Okay... So I don't intend this question to sound snarky in any way. It's an honest question.

And it's fine if it gets moved or ignored, I'm not sensitive

From Galatians,
"You observe days and months and seasons and years."

Isn't that what's going on here? An intense scrutiny of days, weeks... ?

Some links that may relate:
Galatians 4 Interlinear Bible

Strong's Greek: 3906. παρατηρέω (paratéreó) -- to watch closely, to observe scrupulously

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Do you know the answer to either of the questions?

I'm on a fact finding mission.

yeah so was I when I asked you my question first that you still have not answered

 

[daq]

Okay... So I don't intend this question to sound snarky in any way. It's an honest question.

And it's fine if it gets moved or ignored, I'm not sensitive

From Galatians,
"You observe days and months and seasons and years."

Isn't that what's going on here? An intense scrutiny of days, weeks... ?

Some links that may relate:
Galatians 4 Interlinear Bible

Strong's Greek: 3906. παρατηρέω (paratéreó) -- to watch closely, to observe scrupulously

Since you posted right after my post I'll go ahead and answer. : )

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

John 7:14-17 KJV
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

The date of this statement in John 7 is the midst of Sukkot, (John 7:14). Want to understand the doctrine? Love the Father by loving His Word, and understand the calendar to understand the Gospel accounts, and especially the crucifixion, so that you fully understand why and how the ministry of the Messiah fulfills Torah and Prophets. In this manner you will have unshakable evidence for an unshakable faith.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The scripture is silent as to whether or not there were dinner plates. Are you asserting that there were no dinner plates too?

third time's the charm...plates are not the most important part of Pesakh, lamb is...

 

[Leaf473]

Since you posted right after my post I'll go ahead and answer. : )

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

John 7:14-17 KJV
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

The date of this statement in John 7 is the midst of Sukkot, (John 7:14). Want to understand the doctrine? Love the Father by loving His Word, and understand the calendar to understand the Gospel accounts, and especially the crucifixion, so that you fully understand why and how the ministry of the Messiah fulfills Torah and Prophets. In this manner you will have unshakable evidence for an unshakable faith.

View attachment 314121

Thanks for the answer! Anyone else is welcome to contribute as well.

It's a little hard to see the graphic on my cell phone. Is it basically showing that Jesus is crucified in exact fulfillment of a number of years prophesied by Daniel?

So... Are you saying it is good to intensely scrutinize days and weeks? How does this work for the person who can barely read?