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the majority of existence.
then of course spending any time on this or any forum is kinda a waste of time that could be spent much better.
heres the thing; I try to explain why and how ID and IR are bogus, but, people just ignore it anyways.
You put measurements, data and records out there, but still, the earht is 6000 years old to some.
But, I don't think its healthy for a society to have people walking around, telling others total nonsense in place of a fact or truth.
But it irritates me when people try to tell lies to a world that doesn't know any better.
does God ever get irritated at people spreading lies?
Originally Posted by genez
There you go.fwwid: Thumbs up
It doesn't have to end like this fellas....no-one wins an argument when both get in their corners and vehemently defend their positions.
Is there a lesson we all can learn here.....isn't it our attitude towards those we disagree with.... that shows how much we really love them.
Loving one another is the golden rule.....winning the argument on this thread and losing it on this rule ....well ....I will let you finish the sentence.
May God be with you both.
Originally Posted by genezThere you go.fwwid: Thumbs up
It doesn't have to end like this fellas....no-one wins an argument when both get in their corners and vehemently defend their positions.
Loving one another is the golden rule.....winning the argument on this thread and losing it on this rule ....well ....I will let you finish the sentence.
You are under a wrong impression. I am not vehemently defending my position. I would not think what I believe is truth, if I were.
We are all at different stages of spiritual growth. I believe you have a bit more to learn about what took place in the Bible when those who followed false doctrines were resenting the truth being presented.
The golden rule does not apply in this situation. It may have begun with it. But it does not mean its to continue after a point.
Golden rule? I would have to treat the person how I would want to be treated for propagating and promoting a lie. You love the one accepting the lie by patiently presenting truth. If they not only continue to refuse? And, tell you that you have the lie? That's what Pharaoh did. That's what the Pharisees did. That is what the Judaizers did with Paul. None of these folks received the kind of love you speak of. And, I will spare you of what one passage says in the Greek when Paul made comment on those legalists who were opposing the truth.
My job is to make the point clear. If they still refuse? They are not rejecting me. Its not taken personally. You seem to think I am taking this personally. I am not. For I know its not I who must open the other one's eyes. Its not me they are refusing.
I suggest you read the Bible again
and take note of how we are to treat the less fortunate and those whom we would naturally not want to associate with. We are to love them as we love ourselves. Even our enemies we are to love. But love in that case does not mean show appreciation and approval. Love in that case would be to keep presenting truth, in spite of how negative they are, while they deny it and claim they are being nice.
"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time.
After that, have nothing to do with him." I guess that's not love to you on how to treat another in such a situation. It must not be in the Bible?
But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace.
"Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city."
"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as
God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile
and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed
to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the
immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds
and animals and reptiles."
In their own way, evolutionists who deny the Creation account are essentially doing just as desribed. And, remember. They see themselves as being wise one. Wise for what they choose to believe. They have even told us as much.
In Christ, GeneZ
well, creationism is just one thing; the literal interpretation of creation of the universe by biblical standards. Thats creationism; the big bang, evolution, abiogenesis, and all scientific jargon like that, is not creationism. We aren't even discussion intellegent design, or irreducible complexity, which are also bogus and have no scientific credibility.
By any other standards, its just the natural processes of the universe which need no God to exist, which is why, creationism (the myth) simply does not exist.
The discussion is unreasonable because creationism is unreasonable; infact, there is no discussion.
The universe's natural processes created life; end of discussion. To add anymore would just taint the integrity of the scientific standard itself.
The discussion should end because 'creationism' itself is unreasonable, and bogus just like IC, or ID. Unless theres some scientific evidence to be brought to the table, rather than just quoting scripture (which does NOTHING besides make the person who is quoting that scripture feel good about theirself, no it doesnt teach much other than people are willing to memorize and rehearse things just for their own entertainment)
And open mind? What do you mean? Open to fantasy? Open to insanity? Open to things that aren't real? Open to the fact that I should stand by and let others spread false ideas and myths? No. I will not be open to the fact that fantasy is another word for realiy.
This is correct, we do not have the technology yet to make any direct measurements yet. We may, however, have already made them.
TRUE, it is dichotomous, GOD is all things. I do not know of anything that does not have an opposite. I also think that without this opposite neither exist.
I am too pragmatic for that stance about existence, But I understand. We need to be careful because it is us that determine what existence is. Look at Genz, he has exist defined nicely, but is it really there?
If you define a thing as everything, it is nothing
I am the alpha and the omega.
Dichotomy.
Golden rule? I would have to treat the person how I would want to be treated for propagating and promoting a lie. You love the one accepting the lie by patiently presenting truth. If they not only continue to refuse? And, tell you that you have the lie? That's what Pharaoh did. That's what the Pharisees did. That is what the Judaizers did with Paul. None of these folks received the kind of love you speak of. And, I will spare you of what one passage says in the Greek when Paul made comment on those legalists who were opposing the truth.
hahaha, now your saying that that he doesn't understand this one point of doctrine so much that he has to read the entire Bible again. Maybe then Genez, would you be able to admit that he may know that point of doctrine as well as you? I think not.
God existed before this universe did, since He created it. Therefor, God is not contained within this universe, nor part of it (intrinsically). God exists outside of the universe, so the best science could ever do is observe the effects of God, perhaps the manifestation of Christ within believers ('God spot' of the brain) but God himself is infinite and cannot be measured.
What do you mean God is all things? And about opposites: if black is the opposite of white, what is the opposite of gray? What is the opposite of neutral?
We determine what existence is. . . I would love to see you elaborate on that, perhaps in a different thread so as not to hijack this one. (If you can elaborate, and feel like starting a thread, just send me the link.)
Huh. Dichotomy? or paradox? - that which at first seems contradictory, but reveals a hidden truth.
just becuse someone doesnt believe in elves unicorns and dryads doesn't mean they're mind is closed.
[/SIZE][/FONT]I'm confused, didn't you just elucidate on how exactly to apply the golden rule to the situation? I'm sure many people on this site who propagate and promote lies have no idea that's what they're doing. When most of us think something is true, we'll be pretty stubborn to let go of it, and firm to defend it. Pharaoh was given more golden rule love than the pharisees were, God was much more patient with Pharaoh than necessary.
What if it benefits certain believers to believe in theistic evolution for the sake of the gospel? The depths of God's creation is the solid meat kind of wisdom and not the spiritual milk a lot of people need first, after all. I don't think "propagate and promote lies" is accurate of their intentions. I may look at the same evidence and see flaws in evolution where others see support, but that's the weakness of human logic, not a desire to dismantle the truth, except in the case of Richard Dawkins, then it's both.
Oh no! Not the whole bible again! Seriously though, that should be the diagnosis for each of us ever: suffering from a lack of scripture. Treatment: more scripture. In order to understand the depths of the wisdom contained in even one particular verse, it takes reading the entire chapter, the entire book, the entire testament, and eventually the entire bible, to really put that one verse in context and perspective. Of all the passages in the bible, the golden rule is at the top of the list of those particular passages that require massive exegesis for more than a surface understanding.
You two seriously need a mediator. More than just the disagreement, there seems to be discord in the way each of you communicates and understands the other.
God is in the universe, is the universe, and is out side of the universe. Without going to far, a universe of multi universes is still one universe. That is to say, a room full of boxes is still one room.
There is a problem with is argument until you except the possible of a beginning. When humans speak of forever, most do not understand what they are saying. Is forever 10^10 years? 10^100 years? 10^10^10 years? You are forever in your life, you are infinity to a worker bees life (they live a summer in my area).
I am. No more, no less than that of I Am
The colors black and white do not exist. They are of human construct, your brain made them up.
LMAO, Yes I mean Paradox, Thank You.
I meant to show that things exist on a continuum. If we line people up from Short to tall. If you can imagine drawling a line at the top of their heads you would see a sloped line. What we do as humans is look at the short side, we then Look at the tall side. The dichotomy exists because we do not see (or understand) the middle.
The short and the tall exist as a dichotomous illusion. Illusion meaning here it is looks like it is there. This is different than delusion in that you see the short and tall but they arent even there. Thats why there is no "God Delusion".
Did you see my post where I answered you before Lowly? post # 265.
Lowly, this is not for you:
Please, if youre reading this and you call it science and there fore it shouldnt be here, I know. I am explaining it to her. Also, my theology is supported with evidence, so when ever I am asked about theology I use science. When ever I am asked a science question like Why do you think it does this/that I used my theology.
just becuse someone doesnt believe in elves unicorns and dryads doesn't mean they're mind is closed.
Then what would you call it when someone insists that another believes in elves, unicorns and dryads, when they do not?
and being closed minded to being closed minded is a bad thing?
sure, creationism, by biblical standards doesnt exist.
but creaitonism, by scientific standard, can exist, if that said creaitonism follows the laws of the universe.
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