How long do you think.....

[GailMc]

How long do you think it will be before John Paul II is declared a Saint? Soon I hope! He is to me!

Peace and all good,

Gail

 

[simonthezealot]

How long do you think it will be before John Paul II is declared a Saint? Soon I hope! He is to me!

Peace and all good,

Gail

All born again Christians are saints, was he born again?

 

[E.C.]

Never.

He elevated a Croatian cardinal who supported the genocide and forced conversion of Orthodox Serbs via the Ustashe to the point of "Blessed". That same cardinal was also instrumental in helping Ustashe, Nazis and other Fascists escape into South America via the Ratlines.

JPII might as well have beatified Diocletian.

 

[pgp_protector]

All born again Christians are saints, was he born again?

Was thinking the same thing.
Though I don't think some think Saints are the same a Saints[sup]tm[/sup]

 

[shinbits]

shouldn't Mother Teresa have been declared a Saint by now?

 

[Livindesert]

JPII is one of my favorite Popes(not that I am fond of Catholics) I do like reading his books.

 

[simonthezealot]

Never.

Agreed,
Plus he aided in elevating Mary to an almost deistic identity.
:o

 

[bbbbbbb]

How long do you think it will be before John Paul II is declared a Saint? Soon I hope! He is to me!

Peace and all good,

Gail

If he was a Christian then God declared Him a saint the moment He was born again by God's grace. What matters is God's declaration, not man's nor the councils of men.

 

[lionroar0]

How long do you think it will be before John Paul II is declared a Saint? Soon I hope! He is to me!

Peace and all good,

Gail

I think some where with the ball park of 10 yrs or less.

When he passed away I smelled incense in my house for about 3-4 days.

 

[MrPolo]

Never.

He elevated a Croatian cardinal who supported the genocide and forced conversion of Orthodox Serbs via the Ustashe to the point of "Blessed". That same cardinal was also instrumental in helping Ustashe, Nazis and other Fascists escape into South America via the Ratlines.

JPII might as well have beatified Diocletian.

Do you have any links to an article on this incident from an Orthodox perspective?

 

[E.C.]

Do you have any links to an article on this incident from an Orthodox perspective?

Don't need one. Just look up anything on the Ustashi, but the cardinal in particular was an Aloysius Stepinac. I know for a fact that there was a thread in GT some years ago, sometime in 2007, when this came up and one poster did find a lot of terrible things that Roman Catholic clergy did during WWII.
One Croatian Catholic priest even said "Don't worry about killing them [the Serbs] afterward, I'll forgive your sins".


For a pope who wanted to reunite with the Orthodox Church, promoting a guy who advocated killing off a third of the Serbian Church, forcibly convert another third and then exiling off remaining third isn't exactly what one would call a promotional bell ringer.

 

[prodromos]

Do you have any links to an article on this incident from an Orthodox perspective?

The Pavelic Papers | Home
The website is no longer active so it can only be found on the wayback machine. It is a wealth of information.

John

 

[Sphinx777]

Pope John Paul II (Polish: Jan Paweł II, Latin: Ioannes Paulus PP. II, Italian: Giovanni Paolo II), born Karol Józef Wojtyła; 18 May 1920 – 2 April 2005) served as Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church and Sovereign of Vatican City from 16 October 1978 until his death almost 27 years later. His was the second-longest pontificate; only Pope Pius IX served longer. He was the only Polish Pope, and was the first non-Italian Pope since Dutch Pope Adrian VI in the 1520s.

John Paul II has been widely acclaimed as one of the most influential leaders of the twentieth century. It is widely agreed that he was instrumental in ending communism in his native Poland and eventually all of Europe, as well as significantly improving the Catholic Church's relations with Judaism, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Anglican Communion. Though criticised for his opposition to contraception and the ordination of women, as well as his support for the Second Vatican Council and its reform of the Liturgy, he has also been praised for his firm, orthodox Catholic stances in these areas.

He was one of the most-travelled world leaders in history, visiting 129 countries during his pontificate. He was fluent in many languages: Italian, French, German, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Croatian, Ancient Greek and Latin as well as his native Polish. He was also known to speak some Asian languages like Tagalog and Papuan. As part of his special emphasis on the universal call to holiness, he beatified 1,340 people and canonised 483 Saints, more than the combined tally of his predecessors during the last five centuries.

​

 

[MrPolo]

Don't need one. Just look up anything on the Ustashi, but the cardinal in particular was an Aloysius Stepinac. I know for a fact that there was a thread in GT some years ago, sometime in 2007, when this came up and one poster did find a lot of terrible things that Roman Catholic clergy did during WWII.
One Croatian Catholic priest even said "Don't worry about killing them [the Serbs] afterward, I'll forgive your sins".


For a pope who wanted to reunite with the Orthodox Church, promoting a guy who advocated killing off a third of the Serbian Church, forcibly convert another third and then exiling off remaining third isn't exactly what one would call a promotional bell ringer.

I am having trouble finding a good account of this story. A lot of the links at wayback machine are dead. So is the theory that John Paul II conspired with the same Nazis who killed a bunch of his friends?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi sphinx.....ya think you could make your and the RCs pope picture any larger....took forever to scroll past yer post to the next one

http://www.christianforums.com/t7418638/#post53549727

 

[GailMc]

Hey there Simonthe zealot! You state this:

All born again Christians are saints, was he born again?

to which I say YES! He most certainly was born again. Houze that you ask? Ummmm...let's see, he received the Sacraments silly! That's how. He was born again in the Sacrament of Baptism, then as he got older, he received two more life giving Sacraments, First Holy Communion and First Confession, but not in that order. Then later in life he received another life-giving Sacrament, that of Confirmation. Then he received another Sacrament, Ordination in which he was recreated into something altogether new, a Priest, and oh what a holy Priest he was! Finally he was reborn into the afterlife by the Last Rites, including Viaticum.

I don't think this is what you mean by being "born again" though? Am I correct? I'm not really sure what it means for a protestant to be born again. Sounded like a test in semantics when one tried to explain it to me once out of a Bible. But I wasn't even Baptised yet then and really wasn't exactly sure of what that person wanted. My attention mostly I think and I looked rather stupid I'm sure. But it was pure grace if you ask me to be that stupid.

Ummmm.....for me as a Catholic, receiving a Sacrament is an encounter with the living God, Jesus Christ, Who present in them all. There are 7. It is one of the ways God keeps His Word to us by remaining in them till the end of the ages as Scripture states. He promised it and He delivers it! I've got God's Word on it! He's been doing so for two thousand years!

Peace and all good,

Gail

 

[Rhamiel]

i think we should wait for the next pope before he is named a Saint, since he worked so closely with Benedict XVI it would seem like favortism for B16 to name JP2 a saint

 

[prodromos]

I am having trouble finding a good account of this story. A lot of the links at wayback machine are dead.

Holocaust Revealed
Ante Pavelic killer file

The information is out there. I just don't think you are looking hard enough (which I can understand as it reflects very badly on the Catholic Church)

John

 

[E.C.]

I am having trouble finding a good account of this story. A lot of the links at wayback machine are dead. So is the theory that John Paul II conspired with the same Nazis who killed a bunch of his friends?

I'm not talking about John Paul II, but about Croatian Cardinal Aloysius Stepinac who was beatified JPII.

Therefore I think that due to JPII's beatifying of Aloysius Stepinac; the Ustashi Fascist, supporter of genocides and forced conversions against the Orthodox Christian Serbs, and putter-togetherer of the "Ratlines" which sent a lot of Fascists and Nazis to safety in South America; JPII himself will not be recognized a saint.

 

[Livindesert]

Holocaust Revealed
Ante Pavelic killer file

The information is out there. I just don't think you are looking hard enough (which I can understand as it reflects very badly on the Catholic Church)

John

Of course the Serbian Orthodox ethinic cleansing was much much worse than any Catholic infraction I have heard about

Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo: An Accounting

Here is just a bit of the atrocities.

the U.N. Security Council that her office had received reports of more than 11,000 killed in 529 reported mass grave and killing sites in Kosovo. The Prosecutor said her office had exhumed 2,108 bodies from 195 of the 529 known mass graves. This would imply about 6,000 bodies in mass graves in Kosovo if the 334 mass graves not examined thus far contain the same average number of victims. To this total must be added three important categories of victims: (1) those buried in mass graves whose locations are unknown, (2) what the ICTY reports is a significant number of sites where the precise number of bodies cannot be counted, and (3) victims whose bodies were burned or destroyed by Serbian forces. Press accounts and eyewitness accounts provide credible details of a program of destruction of evidence by Serbian forces throughout Kosovo and even in Serbia proper. The number of victims whose bodies have been burned or destroyed may never be known, but enough evidence has emerged to conclude that probably around 10,000 Kosovar Albanians were killed by Serbian forces.

Rape: There are numerous accounts indicating that the organized and individual rape of Kosovar Albanian women by Serbian forces was widespread. For example, Serbian forces systematically raped women in Djakovica and Pec, and in some cases rounded up women and took them to hotels where they were raped by troops under encouragement of their commanders. Rape is most likely an underreported atrocity because of the stigma attached to the victims in traditional Kosovar Albanian society.