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How long do you think.....
- Thread starter GailMc
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Nope it's the Church guided by the Holy Spirit. The same way that the Bible was put together.
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MamaZ
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Actually the only one who can declare a man a saint is God himself through Christ the risen Lord.
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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MamaZ
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Through His written scriptures He has revealed to them who knows Him. His word is His declaration..
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MamaZ
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All those who have the Spirit of Christ are His saints.. brought out of darkness and translated into His light.
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Okay so why then, can't men with the guidance of the Holy Spirit say that God has declared JPII a Saint? If this is discerned why can't it be stated?
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Men don't declare Saints. God does, men just say this is what God has done.
A Saint is someone who has lived a heroic christian life and is now in heaven. They are role models for us. They are an example to us that living a heroic christian life is real and attainable.
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Dear MamaZ,
You state this:
I'll first show you a part of the Scriptures: After this I saw a great multitude which no man could number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and with palms in their hands. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb." And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshipped God, saying, "Amen. Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever. Amen." And one of the elders spoke and said to me, "These who are clothed in white robes, who are they? and whence have they come? From the Apocalypse of John, Chapter 7, verses 9 to 13.
The goal of everyone who follows Christ is not in this life. It is Heaven. That is very basic. I don't expect you to see it that way because I'm assuming from you Bible quotes you are a JW, but I will explain my perspective.
Heaven isn't an empty place where God sits alone watching the earth. No! It is very populated with angels Saints and other creatures (see the above). The whole goal of one being a "saved" individual is to attain Heaven, our eternal home. How we live our lives this side of Heaven determines whether or not we will get there, though some attained Heaven just after receiving Christ in the first 300 or so years simply by having their blood shed for the Lamb, the Martyrs.
To me, the role of the Saints is to bear witness through the ages to Christ and His works among men. His Kingdom has never ended, though it has been over shadowed many times in many places by the evils of the ages. Yet He remains triumphant. The witness the Saints provide to us here and now is just as has already been stated, they show us heroic ways in which we too can follow Christ. Their lives examined and held up to the view of the rest of us give us strength in our day to day walk with Christ. This isn't the only role of the Saints, but you asked for reasoning in declaring someone a Saint. The Church contines through all the ages to declare Saints simply because we need the witness. It confirms that those who have lived among us have attained to goal of our salvation in Christ - eternal life with Him in Heaven. Without it, wouldn't life seem rather hopeless? Why bother living this thing called Christianity when the going gets tough if you don't believe anyone has made it to Heaven yet? The Church simply answers the question in the very last verse I just quoted. It names those who are around the throne of God in Heaven.
A Saint is simply someone who the Church has said has made it there. In the process of declaring someone a Saint, there has to be three post mortem healing miracles attributed to that particular person's intercession. This doesn't mean the 3 are the ONLY miracles attributed to a particular person, but they are clear and actual and strong indicators that prayer to this particular person won't go unanswered. We don't hold up losers as saints! It just doesn't happen.
I find it a wonderful thing to think about - the one who declared so many will have his turn at the process himself.
I entered the Church under his reign and loved him dearly while he lived. I am pretty sure he's up there around the throne with all the rest and I already pray for his help. John Paul II was my very first Pope! A silly thing to say, but it is true.
So MamaZ, for me a weakling in the faith, I NEED the church's witness of the Saints in my daily life so I have hope, for I have many sins to account for when it comes my turn to be judged. That is my "reason." They give me hope that I too may attain the goal of my salvation in Christ - Heaven. Hope it helps.
Peace and all good,
Gail
You state this:
I'll first show you a part of the Scriptures: After this I saw a great multitude which no man could number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and with palms in their hands. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb." And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshipped God, saying, "Amen. Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever. Amen." And one of the elders spoke and said to me, "These who are clothed in white robes, who are they? and whence have they come? From the Apocalypse of John, Chapter 7, verses 9 to 13.
The goal of everyone who follows Christ is not in this life. It is Heaven. That is very basic. I don't expect you to see it that way because I'm assuming from you Bible quotes you are a JW, but I will explain my perspective.
Heaven isn't an empty place where God sits alone watching the earth. No! It is very populated with angels Saints and other creatures (see the above). The whole goal of one being a "saved" individual is to attain Heaven, our eternal home. How we live our lives this side of Heaven determines whether or not we will get there, though some attained Heaven just after receiving Christ in the first 300 or so years simply by having their blood shed for the Lamb, the Martyrs.
To me, the role of the Saints is to bear witness through the ages to Christ and His works among men. His Kingdom has never ended, though it has been over shadowed many times in many places by the evils of the ages. Yet He remains triumphant. The witness the Saints provide to us here and now is just as has already been stated, they show us heroic ways in which we too can follow Christ. Their lives examined and held up to the view of the rest of us give us strength in our day to day walk with Christ. This isn't the only role of the Saints, but you asked for reasoning in declaring someone a Saint. The Church contines through all the ages to declare Saints simply because we need the witness. It confirms that those who have lived among us have attained to goal of our salvation in Christ - eternal life with Him in Heaven. Without it, wouldn't life seem rather hopeless? Why bother living this thing called Christianity when the going gets tough if you don't believe anyone has made it to Heaven yet? The Church simply answers the question in the very last verse I just quoted. It names those who are around the throne of God in Heaven.
A Saint is simply someone who the Church has said has made it there. In the process of declaring someone a Saint, there has to be three post mortem healing miracles attributed to that particular person's intercession. This doesn't mean the 3 are the ONLY miracles attributed to a particular person, but they are clear and actual and strong indicators that prayer to this particular person won't go unanswered. We don't hold up losers as saints! It just doesn't happen.
I find it a wonderful thing to think about - the one who declared so many will have his turn at the process himself.
I entered the Church under his reign and loved him dearly while he lived. I am pretty sure he's up there around the throne with all the rest and I already pray for his help. John Paul II was my very first Pope! A silly thing to say, but it is true.
So MamaZ, for me a weakling in the faith, I NEED the church's witness of the Saints in my daily life so I have hope, for I have many sins to account for when it comes my turn to be judged. That is my "reason." They give me hope that I too may attain the goal of my salvation in Christ - Heaven. Hope it helps.
Peace and all good,
Gail
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MamaZ
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Living a Christian life is only attainable through Christ for He that in is in me is greater than he that is in the world. What do you mean that men just say this is what God has done?
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MamaZ
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Hello and welcome to the forums. I am not a JW.
Why do you have sins that you have to account for?
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hello MamaZ Thanks for the reply.
I assumed you are a Jehovah's witness simply because your Bible quotes Jehovah a couple of times. I didn't think this was an accident. Most folks don't call God Jehovah unless they mean it. Sorry if I'm confused. I'm wondering why you'd quote from a JW's Scripture if you aren't one. Where you at one time?
As for your question, yes I do have sins. I think everyone does. I'm no saint. I've only met a few folks in my life who I think would qualify for that. Most of the folks I know struggle to keep ahead of themselves in the sin department. I would be suspicious of anyone who said they weren't a sinner! That would make them one of two things either delusional or a saint.
I've heard some folks say they believe everyone is a saint who does thus and so, or believes something or the other, but I'm inclined to believe that it ain't that simple. If it were that simple, Christ could have wrapped up His ministry a lot sooner than the three years it took! LOL.
Peace and all good,
Gail
Hello and welcome to the forums. I am not a JW.
I assumed you are a Jehovah's witness simply because your Bible quotes Jehovah a couple of times. I didn't think this was an accident. Most folks don't call God Jehovah unless they mean it. Sorry if I'm confused. I'm wondering why you'd quote from a JW's Scripture if you aren't one. Where you at one time?
As for your question, yes I do have sins. I think everyone does. I'm no saint. I've only met a few folks in my life who I think would qualify for that. Most of the folks I know struggle to keep ahead of themselves in the sin department. I would be suspicious of anyone who said they weren't a sinner! That would make them one of two things either delusional or a saint.
I've heard some folks say they believe everyone is a saint who does thus and so, or believes something or the other, but I'm inclined to believe that it ain't that simple. If it were that simple, Christ could have wrapped up His ministry a lot sooner than the three years it took! LOL.
Peace and all good,
Gail
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