How is it consistent to criticize the left for hating America AND not having an objective morality ?

[Ken-1122]

That’s not grounding since you’ve admitted that you determine right or wrong from feelings, and that those feelings can change.

So you define grounded as something that never changes? If so, then I think having your moral views grounded this way is a horrible idea.

 

[Ken-1122]

Can you give an example?

Your neighbor's dog poops in your yard, and your God tells you to kill your neighbor for this infraction, and you are 100% confident you will get away with it; would you do it?

 

[perplexed]

Where did I say anything akin to “Without Jesus it does not matter that you say that murdering someone for dog poop is excessive , sure you think murdering someone for dog poop is excessive now, but that belief that it is excessive could easily change”

I’m not saying that you would actually do it. This isn’t about what you would or wouldn’t actually do. This is about whether it
would be okay for you to do it if your feelings changed, since you’ve tied the morality to your feelings.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Your neighbor's dog poops in your yard, and your God tells you to kill your neighbor for this infraction, and you are 100% confident you will get away with it; would you do it?

You're being absurd, Ken. Maybe just stop being absurd? It's not hard to do.

 

[Hammster]

So you define grounded as something that never changes? If so, then I think having your moral views grounded this way is a horrible idea.

Not really. In general, both you and I have the same grounding. We are both made in the image of God, and he made us to know right from wrong. So it wrong to murder our neighbor for his dog, not because of feelings, but because we know it’s wrong intrinsically. The difference is that, as a believer in God and His word, I can go one step further.

 

[Hammster]

Your neighbor's dog poops in your yard, and your God tells you to kill your neighbor for this infraction, and you are 100% confident you will get away with it; would you do it?

Why would God tell me to do that? At face value, I’d say it violates the written word, so I would think that what I’m hearing isn’t from Him.

 

[Hammster]

@perplexed Was post 103 supposed to prove something?

 

[Ken-1122]

You're being absurd, Ken. Maybe just stop being absurd? It's not hard to do.

And how is my question any more absurd than the question he asked me on post #83? If I can be tasked with such a hypothetical, so can he.

 

[Ken-1122]

Why would God tell me to do that?

Why did God tell Abraham to kill his son?

At face value, I’d say it violates the written word,

You would question GOD???

so I would think that what I’m hearing isn’t from Him.

So unless God's morals just so happen to align perfectly with yours, you ignore God? Why not take it a step further and be like me?

 

[perplexed]

@perplexed Was post 103 supposed to prove something?

It proved to me we have totally different definition of the word feeling so I did not understand anything you said.

If God makes me think something is intrinsically wrong
He is not making me know something is intrinsically wrong because he did not give me explanation of why I should know it
he gives me the feeling it is intrinsically wrong

 

[Ken-1122]

Not really. In general, both you and I have the same grounding.

So your morality is not grounded in God either?

We are both made in the image of God, and he made us to know right from wrong.

If God is morally perfect, and we were both made in the moral image of God, that would mean we are morally perfect and there would be no need for you to listen to God for moral instruction. I suspect when they say “image of God”, they are talking about visual image, not the moral image.

So it wrong to murder our neighbor for his dog, not because of feelings, but because we know it’s wrong intrinsically. The difference is that, as a believer in God and His word, I can go one step further.

No; you already said if God told you to do something that goes against your beliefs, you would ignore God and justify it claiming the message was not from God. Why don't cha admit your morals come from your subjective beliefs just like mine!

 

[Hammster]

Why did God tell Abraham to kill his son?

Read for yourself.

You would question GOD???

No. I would question someone claiming to be God.

So unless God's morals just so happen to align perfectly with yours, you ignore God?

Not at all.

Why not take it a step further and be like me?

I don’t want to spend an eternity in hell.

 

[Hammster]

It proved to me we have totally different definition of the word feeling so I did not understand anything you said.

If God makes me think something is intrinsically wrong
He is not making me know something is intrinsically wrong because he did not give me explanation of why I should know it
he gives me the feeling it is intrinsically wrong

I have no idea how that relates to the accusation you made about me.

 

[Hammster]

So your morality is not grounded in God either?

Wrong. Yours is, too. You are just suppressing that truth.

If God is morally perfect, and we were both made in the moral image of God, that would mean we are morally perfect and there would be no need for you to listen to God for moral instruction.

Wrong. There’s the issue of fallen man. Sin has corrupted us. We are not perfect. But we still know right from wrong, even if we don’t always do it.

I suspect when they say “image of God”, they are talking about visual image, not the moral image.

No.

No; you already said if God told you to do something that goes against your beliefs, you would ignore God and justify it claiming the message was not from God. Why don't cha admit your morals come from your subjective beliefs just like mine!

No, not what I said. Try again.

 

[perplexed]

I have no idea how that relates to the accusation you made about me.

a deeper problem is that you don't know what people mean by the phrase "objective morality"
I suggest you watch some youtube videos

 

[Ken-1122]

No. I would question someone claiming to be God.

Not at all.

The scenario was not about someone claiming to be God; my scenario was about God. Care to answer my question?

Wrong. There’s the issue of fallen man. Sin has corrupted us. We are not perfect. But we still know right from wrong, even if we don’t always do it.

Still; if mankind were created morally equal to God, why was he so quick to sin?

 

[Bradskii]

So, where in the New Testament do you see any indication that God could show up (which is already a lot to ask for being that, like Pascal, I only expect a "Hidden God'), and then ask Christians to murder others?

Anywhere? Anywhere? ... I'm looking but I don't see it. Anywhere? Anywhere? Anywhere? Where, mr know it all?

What..? Are you saying that God doesn't speak to people in some way? Or that He couldn't? He spoke to many people in the bible and I have talked with people who assure me that He has talked directly to them. So I know it happens. Why do you doubt this?

 

[Bradskii]

Then that’s the important question. Who built us, and why is this sense of morality part of the design?

I could give you an enormous amount of information that explains it all. But you'd not be interested in reading it, I think. But in short, it was the evolutionary process. So you can say you know who did it and I can say I know how He did it.

 

[Bradskii]

Furthermore, I don't accept the use of certain conditionals where the Biblical theology is concerned. They're a waste of our time, especially if there are aspects of the results of one's Hermeneutics (like mine) which preclude them from having any relevance.

If you want to describe some aspects of your own thinking, then have at it, but don't insist to ME that we have to apply conditional type moral evaluations in our overall thinking at all times, especially not when they're artificially imposed conceptual contradictions contrived by atheists and agnostics.

You've taken Option 2. I don't need to know any more. Thanks for your input.

 

[Hammster]

a deeper problem is that you don't know what people mean by the phrase "objective morality"
I suggest you watch some youtube videos

Non sequitur.