How i know that God does exist.

[DailyBlessings]

Care to substantiate that?

Call me prejudiced, but I have a tendency to give the kind of person responsible for my health, my entertainment and the computer I type this on the benefit of the doubt...

Substantiate my experience of humanity with what? More testimony? In general, I'd say my current colleagues in the seminary are no more or less prone to breaches of ethics in academic practice than my former colleagues in the scientific world. It's true that I don't have any factual data to back that up, so treat it as you would any anecdotal evidence.

I note that I was responding to a comment that swept with a similarly broad brush. Much like yours, which seems to attach god-like qualities to anyone who picks up a clipboard. Science succeeds because its method is good, not because the people who practice it are virtuous, intelligent, and beneficient. Shall I sweep aside your comment with an assertion using similar logic, that I am more willing to give the benefit of a doubt to the people who present the most meaningful understanding of life to me? A computer or ten years of life are only as good as the person who's using them, and how, in my book.

But as I've already pointed out, I'm not arguing that any particular group of people is better, just that I consider all people to be made of more or less the same stuff, at least in numbers. I've never known statements such as "x people are categorically better because they believe in x" to be substantiated by anything except prejudice, and it can be a very dangerous condition to live in. Weighting your consideration someone tells you by virtue of their ethnicity, creed, position, or source of authority is a perilous condition for any human being.

 

[drifter5]

I have. That is, I have recently done so - after I stopped believing in God. When I say recently I actually mean sometime last month. It was hard - it's hard to stop expecting silence when you've been used to it for so long, but I was as sincere as anyone could be.



I did that a long time ago as a Christian, but not recently.



Drifter, remember that most people around here will have heard the spiel before. I, at least, know, and I guess Wiccan does to, that Jesus is supposed to love us, will not force as, that he died to save us from sin, and the rest of it. I have to say, Jesus might be the perfect gentleman, but ramming dogma down our throats is far from gentlemanly!

I have no objection to the core of your point, but I'm afraid it can get a little tiresome that you seem to... preach - all the time! I say this in good humour, but I hope you understand.

I do not really understand what you mean . How would you like me to share, please ? Thanks. i only say the things i do out of love and concern for others. I am praying for you. What would you like to discuss please ?( I do struggle to communicate as i have special needs . )

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Have you asked God in prayer to reveal The Truth to you, sincerely,

Yes.

Have you asked Jesus in to your heart, believing in Him as your Saviour ?

Yes.

You see i wanted heaven before i was a true christian , but i did not want Jesus in my life . It was when i believed that Jesus has died to save me , and invited Jesus in to my heart ,that He graciously saved me.

Fantastic.

Jesus is knocking at the door of our heart, waiting for us to invite Him in.

I disagree: if the Jesus you believe in really exists, then he is simply standing outside the door, waiting for me to open it. He has made absolutely no attempt to contact me and verify his existance.

Jesus is a gentleman and will not force us to come to Him. Jesus loves us all with such perfect love and compassion.

Yet he doesn't show himself. He has made a world that looks exactly like a world without Jesus. Could it be, then, that Jesus doesn't actually exist? Could it be that you are basing your faith on your cultural background?

Tell me, have you bowed to Mecca and asked Almighty Allah to enter your heart and soul? If not, how do you know that Islam is not the True Path, and that Christianity is just a pale precurser to it?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What people say =/= what they do.

Since we are talking about people's beliefs, I don'ts ee the relevance. And in any case, what someone says can equal what they do: I say I'm going to the store, and, lo and behole, I go to the store.

I've never known scientists to be less inclined to bias and hypocrisy than any other kind of human being.

Then I suggest you meet other scientists. In my experiance, they are far more likely to save judgement of a new idea or notion until they have a good grasp of it (rather than, say, default to preconceptions and prejudices).

People are people.

People are people, but one person isn't another person.

 

[FishFace]

Substantiate my experience of humanity with what? More testimony? In general, I'd say my current colleagues in the seminary are no more or less prone to breaches of ethics in academic practice than my former colleagues in the scientific world. It's true that I don't have any factual data to back that up, so treat it as you would any anecdotal evidence.

OK

I note that I was responding to a comment that swept with a similarly broad brush. Much like yours, which seems to attach god-like qualities to anyone who picks up a clipboard.

Haha, not really. It's the method that's important - but anyone who does good science must be following the method; it's quite hard to just come across the right results by being biased and prejudiced.

Science succeeds because its method is good, not because the people who practice it are virtuous, intelligent, and beneficient. Shall I sweep aside your comment with an assertion using similar logic, that I am more willing to give the benefit of a doubt to the people who present the most meaningful understanding of life to me?

Well, if you like - but these benefits are verifiable, whereas you can't be sure an understanding (scientific, religious or otherwise) is any good. Even if a tangible benefit is based on utter codswallop, it's a start - although we'd prefer to replace said codswallop with the real deal.

 

[FishFace]

I do not really understand what you mean . How would you like me to share, please ? Thanks. i only say the things i do out of love and concern for others. I am praying for you. What would you like to discuss please ?( I do struggle to communicate as i have special needs . )

It's not the topic of discussion that is any kind of problem, and it's only... well, mildly annoying. I'm sorry you're the person who gets this; I've never really mentioned it before. A lot of Christians one has debates with include this stuff about "Jesus loves you," and "Jesus won't force you" and so on. Not only did we already know it from previous religious belief or acquaintance, but we also know it from all the other debaters.
It's absolutely nothing personal, I just find it a tad patronising - we know this stuff already!

 

[drifter5]

It's not the topic of discussion that is any kind of problem, and it's only... well, mildly annoying. I'm sorry you're the person who gets this; I've never really mentioned it before. A lot of Christians one has debates with include this stuff about "Jesus loves you," and "Jesus won't force you" and so on. Not only did we already know it from previous religious belief or acquaintance, but we also know it from all the other debaters.
It's absolutely nothing personal, I just find it a tad patronising - we know this stuff already!

i was unaware of whether you knew , or not . There are many folk, today, who have never heard The Gospel, The Bible, or been in a church.

 

[drifter5]

Yes.


Yes.


Fantastic.


I disagree: if the Jesus you believe in really exists, then he is simply standing outside the door, waiting for me to open it. He has made absolutely no attempt to contact me and verify his existance.


Yet he doesn't show himself. He has made a world that looks exactly like a world without Jesus. Could it be, then, that Jesus doesn't actually exist? Could it be that you are basing your faith on your cultural background?

Tell me, have you bowed to Mecca and asked Almighty Allah to enter your heart and soul? If not, how do you know that Islam is not the True Path, and that Christianity is just a pale precurser to it?[/quote The Holy Spirit reveals The Truth about God to Christians.

 

[quatona]

i was unaware of whether you knew , or not . There are many folk, today, who have never heard The Gospel, The Bible, or been in a church.

Having been around for roughly half a century I have not once met one of those ".many folk"

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The Holy Spirit reveals The Truth about God to Christians.

Please answer my questions:

Tell me, have you bowed to Mecca and asked Almighty Allah to enter your heart and soul? If not, how do you know that Islam is not the True Path, and that Christianity is just a pale precurser to it?

 

[drifter5]

Having been around for roughly half a century I have not once met one of those ".many folk"

i do apologise if i am incorrect about this. There will certainly be some who have not heard The Gospel, in the world.

 

[drifter5]

I read the other day that there are some people who do not know the real reason for Christmas.

 

[drifter5]

Please answer my questions:

Tell me, have you bowed to Mecca and asked Almighty Allah to enter your heart and soul? If not, how do you know that Islam is not the True Path, and that Christianity is just a pale precurser to it?

There is only one true and living God , and that is The God of The Bible. (No , i have not asked Allah to enter my heart, as Allah does not exist.) The Bible tells us so , and The Holy Spirit reveals the things of God to us. The Bible is The Living Word of God, and God talks to us through it. The Bible is not an ordinary book. God says in His word that faith comes by hearing the Bible. I now know that God is real, and that everything in The Bible is true.

 

[quatona]

I read the other day that there are some people who do not know the real reason for Christmas.

It´s pretty safe to say that they are not the ones who hang around on a Christian Apologetics forum, though.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

i do apologise if i am incorrect about this. There will certainly be some who have not heard The Gospel, in the world.

Naturally. Are they able to be saved? If so, what is the point of Christianity? If not, what does this say about God's omnipotence?

I read the other day that there are some people who do not know the real reason for Christmas.

Yeah, too few people nowadays recognise the ancient holiday that is Yule (the Winter Solstice). The Reason for the Season is the Death of the Holly King, and the rise of the Oak King.

There is only one true and living God , and that is The God of The Bible. (No , i have not asked Allah to enter my heart, as Allah does not exist.)

How do you know he does not exist if you have not submitted thyself to him? You think the God of the Bible has revealed himself to you, but that's nothing compared to the Truth one understands by converting to Islam.

The Bible tells us so , and The Holy Spirit reveals the things of God to us. The Bible is The Living Word of God, and God talks to us through it. The Bible is not an ordinary book. God says in His word that faith comes by hearing the Bible.

That's rather circular: "I know the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true".

Did it ever occur to you that the 'God' you worship is just lying about being the God of the Bible? You think you have divine communion, but really, it's just a clever trick of Satan to drive people away from the One True Allah.

I now know that God is real, and that everything in The Bible is true.

Even the parts that contradict the other parts? Even the parts that contradict reality?

 

[FishFace]

i was unaware of whether you knew , or not . There are many folk, today, who have never heard The Gospel, The Bible, or been in a church.

Hmm, I know. But I think most people here will have a not-bad idea of what Christians believe. Also, the non-Christians here are unlikely to be moved in any way by such messages, whether they know about them or not.

 

[drifter5]

Naturally. Are they able to be saved? If so, what is the point of Christianity? If not, what does this say about God's omnipotence?


Yeah, too few people nowadays recognise the ancient holiday that is Yule (the Winter Solstice). The Reason for the Season is the Death of the Holly King, and the rise of the Oak King.


How do you know he does not exist if you have not submitted thyself to him? You think the God of the Bible has revealed himself to you, but that's nothing compared to the Truth one understands by converting to Islam.


That's rather circular: "I know the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true".

Did it ever occur to you that the 'God' you worship is just lying about being the God of the Bible? You think you have divine communion, but really, it's just a clever trick of Satan to drive people away from the One True Allah.


Even the parts that contradict the other parts? Even the parts that contradict reality?

The Bible does not really contradict. We do need The Holy Spirit's help to umderstand God's Word.

 

[drifter5]

Jesus is the reason for the season. Jesus is real, He is alive, and He is The King of Kings. I do not think this , i know this. I only know this because God has graciously revealed this to me, and given me the gift of faith. Jesus will not turn anyone away who, sincerely , seeks Him. Proverbs 8: 17: " Those who seek me diligently shall find me . "

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The Bible does not really contradict. We do need The Holy Spirit's help to umderstand God's Word.

Why? Why would God create a piece of text that noone can understand unless they have his help (and thereby rendering the Bible moot)?

Jesus is the reason for the season. Jesus is real, He is alive, and He is The King of Kings.

Perhaps, but the reason for the season is still the Pagan solstice. Indeed, even that comes ultimately from axial tilt: without that, we wouldn't even have a season.

I do not think this , i know this. I only know this because God has graciously revealed this to me,

As I said before, how can you be sure that Islam isn't correct, and that what you call 'God' isn't in fact Satan tricking you into not worshiping Allah?

and given me the gift of faith.

The 'gift' of faith? Faith is just belief in the irrational, in the unevidenced. How is that a gift?

Jesus will not turn anyone away who, sincerely , seeks Him. Proverbs 8: 17: " Those who seek me diligently shall find me . "

I cite myself as a disproof to this: I sincerely asked Jesus, God, etc, to enter my heart, on many occasions. Nowt happened. Go figure.

 

[FishFace]

There is only one true and living God , and that is The God of The Bible. (No , i have not asked Allah to enter my heart, as Allah does not exist.)

How do you know? If we follow the same logic that you use, you have to ask Allah to enter your heart before he will reveal himself to you. I don't think your God exists, and I still asked him - although I didn't get a response at all.
What was the problem? Was I just "not doing it right?" not "trying hard enough?" (I can tell you, I was trying as hard as I could.) But then a Muslim can say when you ask for Allah, that you are not doing it right, not trying hard enough, or any other reason they might like. The problem is that you have set yourself up in a position where no argument can possibly disprove what you say, but that anyone can use the same kind of position, slightly altered, to give an argument for their God which is just as good as yours.
If you are to be consistent, you either have to say every such God exists, or that no such God exists. Or you have to get a better argument.

The Bible tells us so , and The Holy Spirit reveals the things of God to us.

But only if you pray for it, believe it, and not only that but achieve some vague criterion that guarantees the Holy Spirit will visit us? Of course, the only way of telling whether or not we did it right is whether or not the Holy Spirit actually came - hence it is unfalsifiable.

The Bible is The Living Word of God, and God talks to us through it. The Bible is not an ordinary book.

The Bible is words on a page, just like any other book.

God says in His word that faith comes by hearing the Bible. I now know that God is real,

To know you have to have justification (by definition.) Apparently your justification is private. Tell me, do you think that people who claim to have seen fairies (on the basis of private evidence) are telling the truth, or are just a bit loopy? Ghosts? Leprechauns?

and that everything in The Bible is true.

Everything? Even the talking snakes, pi=3, offer your daughter to rapists instead of your male guest?