How i know that God does exist.

[FishFace]

It is amazing how even on a christian forum that the Atheist want to run the show and gang up on the believers.

The title of the topic is "How i know that God does exist." You call it "ganging up" when an atheist points out that no-one has shown anything substantial yet?

Lets put it in terms that you can understand I have no doubt in my mind that MY GOD lives and rules and that JESUS died for my sins , But lets just say that you are right and I am wrong . the wurst that could happen is I'm worm food . I lived a good life with family that loves me and died happy with the thought that I would live forever at the feet of my Lord.Now lets say that you are wrong . who gets the better deal . thank you and God Bless. Mark1156

Ooh, Pascal's Wager. Not very original. Two crushing problems - the first is that there are many possible Gods. According to the Wager, I should opt for the God concept that has the greatest difference between punishment for non-belief and reward for belief. But that's not going to be your God, because I can just make concepts up till the cows come home, with a greater difference each time. There are also some tricky theological implications you might want to think about if you believe in a God that rewards you solely for believing in him.
The worse problem is epistemic. You are trying to persuade me to believe in God purely on the basis of potential reward. Sorry, Mark, but most people's brains don't work like that. This is a problem Pascal himself acknowledged; you can't just choose to believe something, not properly - you have to be persuaded of it by evidence, or by reasoning.

Pascal's Wager remains as unconvincing as the last hundred iterations.

 

[drifter5]

When I was a Christian (not long ago at all) I would have agreed with you. I would even have said that I knew God exists because the Holy Spirit came into my heart!
Unfortunately, that argument doesn't wash with my any more, since what I thought was the Holy Spirit I can summon up at will, without believing at all, just by doing breathing exercises.
This kind of thing is not evidence - you have to believe already before you get it. It's just like saying that you have to believe in fairies for them to be visible to you. Except it turns out that the person you're talking to used to believe in fairies and thought he could see them, but was really just tricking himself.

You have to remember that a lot of atheists were once theists.

The Holy Spirit draws you to God in the first place, and Faith in Jesus is a gift from God to pray for. If one is a true Christian then if one backslides God will draw you back to Himself, in His Grace. God chooses us. I thought that i was a Christian for many years, but i was not . Then God graciously saved me, as i asked Jesus to be my Saviour, Lord and best friend ,drawing me to Himself by The Holy Spirit. When i searched for Jesus with all my heart, sincerely, then i found Him. The most wonderful Gospel messge is : We are helpless sinners unable to save ourselvs. Jesus is our perfect Saviour.He died to save us. There is no Saviour besides Him. If we really believe this , then we will be saved. The moment we believe , Jesus comes in to our hearts, and God pardons us of all our sins in Jesus. When we invite Jesus in to our life, believing in Him as our





Saviour, and asking forgiveness for our sins, then He graciously forgives us, and becomes our Saviour, Lord and best friend.Jesus will never leave us.

 

[Mark1156]

The simple turth is I know that my God is real because I know it . That means nothing to an Atheist I understand that. I'm not trying to change your mind ,only God can do that in his on time and his on way . It just amazes me to see how people who do not beleive in God spend so much of there time trying to argue there point with those of us that do . Don't you have better things to do with your time . After all this is A Christian Forum . The simple truth is that we can preach to you till we are blue in the face but if God does not reveal it to you then you're not going to get it . It just amazes me how obsessed you guys are with God to not believe in him . I think that deep down in your hearts you fear that we are right . God bless Mark 1156

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The simple turth is I know that my God is real because I know it .

Ah, what rigourous logic.

That means nothing to an Atheist I understand that.

Then stop saying it.

I'm not trying to change your mind ,only God can do that in his on time and his on way .

Then what's he waiting for? I'm more than willing to know the truth.

It just amazes me to see how people who do not beleive in God spend so much of there time trying to argue there point with those of us that do .

Nobody here (bar a few Christian zealots) preaches their faith (or lack thereof), least of all atheists. Nobody can prove or even evidence the existance, unless they stoop to meaningless word games. The best we can do is disprove certain types of deity (via logic contradictions, for instance).
We've established this. The philosophy sub-forum does not debate this anymore.

Don't you have better things to do with your time .

Of course. But I, like every other poster on here (yourself included), chooses to be here. I enjoy debating. I enjoy learning. I enjoy friendly competition. My home here on CF is the Evolution & Creationism forum, and it's wonderful there. Why would I want to leave?

After all this is A Christian Forum .

This is a forum primarily about the Christian faith, but it is notice the forums dedicated to non-Christian religions, and the tolerance of non-Christian members (as evidenced by the non-Christian faith icons).

The simple truth is that we can preach to you till we are blue in the face but if God does not reveal it to you then you're not going to get it .

Then why preach? Why 'spread the Good News'? Why, in the Bible, are Christians instructed to preach to their fellow human (or Jew, as some interpretations would have)?

It just amazes me how obsessed you guys are with God to not believe in him .

It's more to do with the fact that those who do believe in him are constantly trying to shove the Cross down their throats. Quite frankly, I'm impressed that North American atheists are as civil as they are: I'd be shaking with indigantion.

I think that deep down in your hearts you fear that we are right .

And there it is. The unjustified and inflammatory stab at atheists everywhere.

God bless Mark 1156

That would constitute preaching, Mark1156.

 

[drifter5]

If you have discovered the most wonderful truth in all the world would you not want to share this with others ? Christians can not save anyone, we are just God's instruments in sharing The Good News of Salvation through Jesus alone. Jesus will not force anyone to come to Him, He is waiting for us to invite Him in to our lives.

 

[Mark1156]

If you have discovered the most wonderful truth in all the world would you not want to share this with others ? Christians can not save anyone, we are just God's instruments in sharing The Good News of Salvation through Jesus alone. Jesus will not force anyone to come to Him, He is waiting for us to invite Him in to our lives.

THanks for saying what I was thinking

 

[Wiccan_Child]

If you have discovered the most wonderful truth in all the world would you not want to share this with others ?

Not particularily. I'm not that arrogant.

Christians can not save anyone, we are just God's instruments in sharing The Good News of Salvation through Jesus alone. Jesus will not force anyone to come to Him, He is waiting for us to invite Him in to our lives.

So according to you, when Christians preach, it is simply "Nyah nyah, we've got this awesome Truth and you haven't!". Fantastic.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

a) because we can see God's handiwork all around us. b) because God reveals Himself to Christians, graciously, by The Holy Spirit.

And that handiwork can't be explained by other deities mankind has known way before YHWH even came into the picture? My gods reveal themselves to me all the time through nature, everyday happenings, etc. I know my gods as much as you do, so what makes yours more credible than mine? The Bible is not a valid answer, by the way.

 

[UncleHermit]

Jesus will not force anyone to come to Him, He is waiting for us to invite Him in to our lives.

And yet, when I tried, He did not answer. What is your explanation for this?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

And yet, when I tried, He did not answer. What is your explanation for this?

Clearly, your prayer wasn't a True Prayer. We know this because it didn't work.
Gotta love it when Christians define themselves to be right.

 

[FishFace]

The Holy Spirit draws you to God in the first place, and Faith in Jesus is a gift from God to pray for.

Why would I pray for faith in something I don't believe in? If the Holy Spirit draws one to God, then what happened to people who don't believe in God? Are we to believe that the Holy Spirit simply didn't like the look of them? Somehow I doubt that's what you mean.

If one is a true Christian then if one backslides God will draw you back to Himself, in His Grace. God chooses us. I thought that i was a Christian for many years, but i was not . Then God graciously saved me, as i asked Jesus to be my Saviour, Lord and best friend ,drawing me to Himself by The Holy Spirit. When i searched for Jesus with all my heart, sincerely, then i found Him.

So wait... how do you know you're a Christian now? You thought you were a Christian for a long time, but were wrong. What makes you so sure this time?
Is it a feeling, or the feeling of the holy spirit or something? Surely you had a feeling last time as well.

The most wonderful Gospel messge is : We are helpless sinners unable to save ourselvs. Jesus is our perfect Saviour.He died to save us. There is no Saviour besides Him. If we really believe this , then we will be saved.

Why is it wonderful that God condemned us to eternal damnation and then (graciously!) allows us to to undamn ourselves as long as we jump through some hoops?
This is the problem with theology: we are asked to believe that an all-loving God wants us to be saved but in fact decided we needed to be saved in the first place and, instead of just saving us, decides we need to perform some tricks first.

The moment we believe , Jesus comes in to our hearts, and God pardons us of all our sins in Jesus. When we invite Jesus in to our life, believing in Him as our Saviour, and asking forgiveness for our sins, then He graciously forgives us, and becomes our Saviour, Lord and best friend.Jesus will never leave us.

Well, I did that. But now there's a problem - Jesus can't fit into my epistemology and nor can God.

 

[FishFace]

The simple turth is I know that my God is real because I know it.

Well, by the law of identity, if you know something then you know it. But you've not established that you do know it, because to know you need justification.

That means nothing to an Atheist I understand that. I'm not trying to change your mind ,only God can do that in his on time and his on way . It just amazes me to see how people who do not beleive in God spend so much of there time trying to argue there point with those of us that do . Don't you have better things to do with your time . After all this is A Christian Forum . The simple truth is that we can preach to you till we are blue in the face but if God does not reveal it to you then you're not going to get it . It just amazes me how obsessed you guys are with God to not believe in him . I think that deep down in your hearts you fear that we are right . God bless Mark 1156

Haha. No, I just like philosophy. If you are right then I would like to be right as well but it surprises me that you are so sure of yourself when the prime determining factor of your religion (and whether you have one at all) is your culture and your parents.
Also, if God provides evidence of himself then there are two questions - regarding people who never come to believe in God - are they damned? A lot of people seem to think so. What about people who stop believing in God - did God pull the plug on their evidence, or what?

 

[DailyBlessings]

Clearly, your prayer wasn't a True Prayer. We know this because it didn't work.
Gotta love it when Christians define themselves to be right.

As though you do not do the same thing. If you didn't believe that what you think is right, you wouldn't believe it.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

As though you do not do the same thing.

Do you have any evidence to support this allegation?

If you didn't believe that what you think is right, you wouldn't believe it.

Naturally. But I would not be so arrogant as to retroactively change my definitions so that I am always right in all my decisions.

Compare:

"I didn't temporarily lose my faith in Christ because I was never a Christian to start with!"

With:

"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."

 

[DailyBlessings]

"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."

Yeah, well... I've known a lot of scientists in my time... Good ones believe that. Most don't.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Yeah, well... I've known a lot of scientists in my time... Good ones believe that. Most don't.

I've met my fair share of scientists, and few don't believe that (or something to that effect). I daresay a worldwide census of the scientific community would show a tendency for us to agree with the sentiment.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I've met my fair share of scientists, and few don't believe that (or something to that effect). I daresay a worldwide census of the scientific community would show a tendency for us to agree with the sentiment.

What people say =/= what they do. I've never known scientists to be less inclined to bias and hypocrisy than any other kind of human being. People are people.

 

[drifter5]

Ah, what rigourous logic.


Then stop saying it.


Then what's he waiting for? I'm more than willing to know the truth.


Nobody here (bar a few Christian zealots) preaches their faith (or lack thereof), least of all atheists. Nobody can prove or even evidence the existance, unless they stoop to meaningless word games. The best we can do is disprove certain types of deity (via logic contradictions, for instance).
We've established this. The philosophy sub-forum does not debate this anymore.


Of course. But I, like every other poster on here (yourself included), chooses to be here. I enjoy debating. I enjoy learning. I enjoy friendly competition. My home here on CF is the Evolution & Creationism forum, and it's wonderful there. Why would I want to leave?


This is a forum primarily about the Christian faith, but it is notice the forums dedicated to non-Christian religions, and the tolerance of non-Christian members (as evidenced by the non-Christian faith icons).


Then why preach? Why 'spread the Good News'? Why, in the Bible, are Christians instructed to preach to their fellow human (or Jew, as some interpretations would have)?


It's more to do with the fact that those who do believe in him are constantly trying to shove the Cross down their throats. Quite frankly, I'm impressed that North American atheists are as civil as they are: I'd be shaking with indigantion.


And there it is. The unjustified and inflammatory stab at atheists everywhere.


That would constitute preaching, Mark1156.

Have you asked God in prayer to reveal The Truth to you, sincerely, Please ? Have you asked Jesus in to your heart, believing in Him as your Saviour ? You see i wanted heaven before i was a true christian , but i did not want Jesus in my life . It was when i believed that Jesus has died to save me , and invited Jesus in to my heart ,that He graciously saved me. Jesus is knocking at the door of our heart, waiting for us to invite Him in. Jesus is a gentleman and will not force us to come to Him. Jesus loves us all with such perfect love and compassion.

 

[FishFace]

What people say =/= what they do. I've never known scientists to be less inclined to bias and hypocrisy than any other kind of human being. People are people.

Care to substantiate that?

Call me prejudiced, but I have a tendency to give the kind of person responsible for my health, my entertainment and the computer I type this on the benefit of the doubt...

 

[FishFace]

Have you asked God in prayer to reveal The Truth to you, sincerely, Please?

I have. That is, I have recently done so - after I stopped believing in God. When I say recently I actually mean sometime last month. It was hard - it's hard to stop expecting silence when you've been used to it for so long, but I was as sincere as anyone could be.

Have you asked Jesus in to your heart, believing in Him as your Saviour ?

I did that a long time ago as a Christian, but not recently.

You see i wanted heaven before i was a true christian , but i did not want Jesus in my life . It was when i believed that Jesus has died to save me , and invited Jesus in to my heart ,that He graciously saved me. Jesus is knocking at the door of our heart, waiting for us to invite Him in. Jesus is a gentleman and will not force us to come to Him. Jesus loves us all with such perfect love and compassion.

Drifter, remember that most people around here will have heard the spiel before. I, at least, know, and I guess Wiccan does to, that Jesus is supposed to love us, will not force as, that he died to save us from sin, and the rest of it. I have to say, Jesus might be the perfect gentleman, but ramming dogma down our throats is far from gentlemanly!

I have no objection to the core of your point, but I'm afraid it can get a little tiresome that you seem to... preach - all the time! I say this in good humour, but I hope you understand.