Didaskomenos
Voiced Bilabial Spirant
Thanks Davo, that adds a new dimension to my understanding of preterist theology. I can't believe how articulate you all are
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Originally posted by Didaskomenos
Manifestation,
I understand the argument, and appreciate it. But your statement was that only Hebrews 9:28 said anything that could be interpreted as a prediction of a second advent. I merely pointed out that another verse could be just as likely construed as the Hebrews verse.
Originally posted by Autumn
"Reports will reach you that the Son of Man has returned and that he is in this place or that. Don't believe such reports or go out to look for him. For when the Son of Man returns, you will know it beyond all doubt. It will be as evident as the lightning that flashes across the sky."
Ummm....I have doubts.
Originally posted by The Simpleton
Hello all. This is new (to me) and interesting point of view. Im not a Preturist or a partial Preterist. Im a Futurist but my mind is open to study the possibilities posed here. I have 3 questions which I am curious of.
1) Do you Preterists go to Church and if so, does your Church share your views. It would be hard for me to go to Church and hear a doctrine that doesnt agree with my views. I havent heard of a Preterist Church but then, before a few days ago, I hadnt heard of Preterism?
2) It would seem to me that Preterists accept Jesus Christ as the key to salvation just as do Futerists and partial Preterists. As a Futurist, I personally dont see why Preterists wouldnt receive salvation from Christ even if they are wrong on this issue of Christs return. Do Preterists and partial Preterists feel the same way about Futurists?
3) Do any Futurists out there feel that the Preterists salvation is in peril based on their point of view?
Originally posted by Mike Beidler
... for the simple reason that you were not there as an eyewitness.
Originally posted by parousia70
Hi Autumn,
What translation were you quoting?
Mind if we examine a different translation of that, and a paralell verse?
Matt 24:26-27 (NKJ)
Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Luke 17:23-24
And they will say to you, 'Look here!' or 'Look there!' Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.
First of all, I don't see in any accurate translation of the original Greek the term "beyond all doubt". It simply isn't there and must be a translators addition.
Second, Jesus is specific that no one will be able to say "Look, there He is". That should raise the first red flag. If You and I were standing together, you were looking at the ground and I at the sky, I see Jesus descending on a literal cloud, surly I could say to you "look, there He is!", but Jesus is quite clear that if I say that, you are not to believe me.
How do you reconcile that?
Third, His coming was to be like Lightning.
Is lightning a global event?
If I am in Oregon and see lightning, would my friend in Japan see the same lightning at the same time?
Lightning is local.
Just a few points to get you thinking......
Peace,
P70
Originally posted by Autumn
Alright, let me explain.
Matt 24: 27
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
No lightening is not global. Yet the way Jesus states this, isn't like actual lightening. He says "as lightning comes from the east and flashes to thewest so also shall the coming of the Son of Man be."
Here I believe Him to be saying that it will be evident from the east to the west.
Originally posted by Autumn
Matt 24:26-27 (NKJ)
Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Here Jesus is saying that false prophets and false Christs will come, but it will be evident when He comes, so not to be deceived.
Here is the NAS version:
24 "For false Christs and (28) false prophets will arise and will show great (29) signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even (30) the elect.
25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
27 "(31) For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the (32) coming of the (33) Son of Man be.
Originally posted by Autumn
Matt 24:26-27 (NKJ)
Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Here Jesus is saying that false prophets and false Christs will come, but it will be evident when He comes, so not to be deceived.
His Great Return could NOT be confused with some false Christ in some isolated place like the desert or in a building somewhere.
Originally posted by Acts6:5
I'd also like to ask futurists; if Jesus is coming back on a literal cloud that can be seen physically, and since we know this world is a globe, then how will Jesus be seen all over the world at the same time? If He comes on a cloud above Pittsburg, Pennsylvania how will the people in Syndey, Australia see Him at the same time? Even a celestial orb like our moon can only be seen by us at certain periods of the the day.
I'm certainly not doubting God's abilities, but I am doubting man's perception of Matt 24.
In Christ,
Acts6:5
Originally posted by Acts6:5
And yet Jesus says if a person says "Look...", then we are not to believe. The locations (desert, building, wherever) vary in Jesus' example. But the one unifying term that Jesus points to is "Look". If someone says "look, He is...", then the Christ has not come. So how can it be obvious to all? Jesus said that His coming would be like lighting from East to West (not North to South, though ), but He also said that people couldn't say "Look, He is...", and His Kindom would not come with observation. Therefore, the "lightning" description cannot be used to interpret an "all-over-the-world-physical" coming in Matt 24, especially since a bolt of lightning does not travel hundreds of miles and is not seen across the planet, and His kingdom would not come with observation. That last point is crucial for you to understand. Lightning can be seen from the "east to the west", but only in a local environment, so even that supports a local judgment.
I'd also like to ask futurists; if Jesus is coming back on a literal cloud that can be seen physically, and since we know this world is a globe, then how will Jesus be seen all over the world at the same time? If He comes on a cloud above Pittsburg, Pennsylvania how will the people in Syndey, Australia see Him at the same time? Even a celestial orb like our moon can only be seen by us at certain periods of the the day.
I'm certainly not doubting God's abilities, but I am doubting man's perception of Matt 24.
In Christ,
Acts6:5
Originally posted by Autumn
The reason that we aren't to believe when someone says "Look..."is because it will be evident when He comes. There will be no questioning about it. He won't appear in some distant land in just one spot...having rumors spread that He is in this land or that. Why would you limit God to our understanding? Could He not appear in the clouds for all to see? Could He not make His appearance that wide known? Let me ask you, How far is the East from the West...does it not go on forever? That is how widespread I believe the coming of Jesus will be.