How hell can make sense...

[Der Alte]

I agree. Did you see the wall of definitions, just like you said would happen?

This is a common heterodox cop-out ploy whenever credible evidence trashes their assumptions/presuppositions, ignore the evidence and blow it off as "a wall of text." I wonder if Moses told God that all those commandments were a wall of text? I don't recall the Jews rejecting the sermon on the mount as a wall of text.

 

[mmksparbud]

I think I have explained this to you before but you disregarded all the evidence and have provided no, zero, none evidence of your own. Just your own conclusions. I have in fact provided credible, not my own dictionary, evidence such as the citation from the Jewish Encyclopedia. I have studied Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level. I am not an expert but I do know when others don't know what they are talking about, such as this instance case. The letter "בְּ/beth" prefixed to a noun is a preposition, it means "in the" and I cited at least three different sources substantiating this. So "בְּיוֹם/beyom" in Gen 2 means "in the day." A literal day not a period of indeterminate length. If you wish to disprove this please provide some credible, verifiable, historical evidence.
The same word occurs in this verse where it absolutely cannot mean a period of indeterminate length.

Gen 5:1 זה ספר תולדת אדם ביום ברא אלהים
Gen 5:1
(1) This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;​

I have not personally checked but I think I can safely say that every occurrence of "in the day" in the OT, it is written בְּיוֹם and it never means a period of indeterminate length.

Mechanical Translation[/URL]

 

[Chriliman]

Hell only makes sense to me if some kind of form or type of re-incarnation or recycling of souls or people is possible and a reality...

This reality, a lot of it is torment, and I think this realm of reality is hell, I think it is the outer darkness outside the gates or kingdom walls of heaven where people, and some people suffer, or are miserable or tormented for eternity. Some people never change their ways and I think these ones are predestined and created to be unchanging and to always be miserable and make everyone else miserable, to be tormented and torment others, forever...

Some do change though and grow and achieve in God's eyes and overcome and develop and make it into heaven at some point. I think he predestined these ones as well, and the purpose of the ones who never change in his eyes, they were only created for, and their kinds of reality, this reality, only exists for the purpose of growing, developing and refining the rest of us that do and are predestined to make it into heaven...

We who make it often start out less than or under and perhaps, in some cases, even "worse" than the others who are not meant to, for the purpose of growing, developing and refining us, anyways we may start out less than or under, or maybe even "worse" than them, but, by them and at their hands we get refined and developed into growing into being more and greater than, and, in the next world, over them, and, in God's eyes, better than them, even if we may have started out worse.

Is that cruel of God to create creatures some that are predestined who do not ever make it, for the purpose of molding and shaping and predestining others that do make it, "because" of the ones who do not ever make it?

The only thing I can say is "hey, he's God, who are we to question what he can or cannot or should or shouldn't do?" Shall the potter say to the clay, "Why did you make me this way?" or, "Is not right for God to do what he wishes with his own things?" "Is it not right for God to make a vessel, one for an unfit use, another for a fitting use?"

God Bless!

One simple way to understand hell/torment is that it's the action of God removing from existence harmful effects caused by His creation i.e. sin, evil, suffering, and death.

I view it as a refining fire that may hurt severely in the moment, but the result is purified perfection.

 

[Der Alte]

...
Mechanical Translation

Irrelevant meaningless link which addresses and proves nothing. Try quoting a Hebrew scholar. I'm still waiting for credible, verifiable, historical evidence that ביום/b'yom means a period of indeterminate length in Genesis 2:17.

 

[Der Alte]

One simple way to understand hell/torment is that it's the action of God removing from existence harmful effects caused by His creation i.e. sin, evil, suffering, and death.
I view it as a refining fire that may hurt severely in the moment, but the result is purified perfection.

Scripture?

 

[masmpg]

This is a common heterodox cop-out ploy whenever credible evidence trashes their assumptions/presuppositions, ignore the evidence and blow it off as "a wall of text." I wonder if Moses told God that all those commandments were a wall of text? I don't recall the Jews rejecting the sermon on the mount as a wall of text.

To make such a big deal about the word "parish" hardly compares to God's TEN commandments! The bottom line is this, parish does NOT mean that those who do not believe will live eternally! ONLY those who believe will have eternal life.

 

[masmpg]

One simple way to understand hell/torment is that it's the action of God removing from existence harmful effects caused by His creation i.e. sin, evil, suffering, and death.

I view it as a refining fire that may hurt severely in the moment, but the result is purified perfection.

Sounds like purgatory to me.

Did you know that the wicked will be ashes under our feet? Not eternally living forever burning in some pit somewhere.

 

[Shempster]

Interesting thread so far.
I'm staying out of it but there's one thing I have noticed over the years.
The real truth on hell is or has been hidden from us. We are all using the same scripture but come out with many views.

For something as serious as this issue, it would seem appropriate for the bible to be crystal clear. It is not.
Well, it can appear clear when you stick with one viewpoint. The problem is that one must reject all of the other viewpoints in order to settle on one. They must also give opposing scriptures different meanings in order for it to fit.

That seems really strange to me. Scholars over the centuries debate this along with many many other topics.
Carry on.

 

[mmksparbud]

Irrelevant meaningless link which addresses and proves nothing. Try quoting a Hebrew scholar. I'm still waiting for credible, verifiable, historical evidence that ביום/b'yom means a period of indeterminate length in Genesis 2:17.

Mechanical Translation
בְּיוֹם

bê'yom

יוֹם

yom


The Hebrew word <wy, day is used three different ways in this section. In Genesis 1:3 the light is called day which would be about 12 hours. At the end of this verse it says that it was evening and morning day one which would be 24 hours. Then in Genesis 2:4 it says, "in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." Here <wy refers to the six days of creation. The phrase "in the day" is beyom which means "when." Beyom is used at the beginning of ANE creation stories.

Psalm 90:4 says, "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday" and 2 Peter 3:8 says, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The "Day of the Lord" seems to be a period of time not just 24 hours. So one must depend on the context to determine what the meaning of "day" is.
IBSS - The Bible - Genesis 1:3-5 DAY 1 - Day One


Let us note these criteria as they are employed in Genesis 2:4. The noun yom is joined to the preposition be to read beyom. Secondly, it is used in a construct relation with the infinitive form of &#145asah, "to make." It reads literally, "in the day of making." This combination of the singular with a preposition in construct with an infinitive98 makes this combination a "temporal conjunction,"99 which serves as a "general introduction of time."100
G. F. Hasel - The "Days" of Creation in Genesis 1


The word yom is 1 day, 24 hours, some people try to make it mean a period of time in order to bring in evolution, but it is not accurate at all. It is beyom and other variations if it that can mean a longer period of time.

 

[Chriliman]

Sounds like purgatory to me.

Did you know that the wicked will be ashes under our feet? Not eternally living forever burning in some pit somewhere.

Were you before or are you now wicked? If either, what happened to that wicked person? Are you a new creation in Christ? If so then that wicked person you used to be no longer exists, thanks to the love of God.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[victorinus]

most believe in the lake of fire
-and-
not in the second death
-
why?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Chriliman]

most believe in the lake of fire
-and-
not in the second death
-
why?

I think the main question is what is the experience of the second death and how long does it last?

As another poster pointed out, we may not be permitted to fully understand at this time.

 

[victorinus]

I think the main question is what is the experience of the second death and how long does it last?

forever

 

[victorinus]

but just like now it will not mean there is no existence of the soul?

what would the death of the soul look like for you?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[victorinus]

In the Christian, in the NT/the outward man will perish but the inner man is renewed day by day.

what about the part where God can kill the soul?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[victorinus]

If people totally perished for eternity, then why would God have things written in Scripture as to:

why would God have them suffer eternally?