Okay so I confused the two animals. I'm allowed to do that because i'm human. All that has been proven is that I am not perfect.
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How has darwinism contributed to the world?
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It was a play on words, for cryin' out loud. If you're so sensitive about such things, perhaps a little introspection would reveal that science is your god, after all.
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LewisWildermuth
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And could it possibly be that discounting evolution because of a literal interpretation of a story in the bible could be one of yours? Or are you perfect?
Oh and answer the 16% thread.
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- Jun 24, 2002
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How does that work? Your God must be a huge sadist to torture the critters for billions of years, slowly building on pain and suffering and spilled blood. My God did it right from the start and looked at His magnificent creation and said [GLOW=darkblue]"It is good."[/GLOW]
Ahh, the old "vestigial organs" argument. Like Lanakila said, the serpent crawled into the garden on legs, but after the sin, God punished him. I defy you to name one real vestigial organ in nature.
You're contradicting yourself here, man. You say that with creation God would be "constantly tinkering" with the creatures. No, can't you see? That would be evolution -- God couldn't do it right, so He would be adding on and correcting His mistakes. You're using the argument for Creation here.
God's Word. That's what the Bible is. Einstein said that if his calculations ever contradicted the Bible, he would check his calculations a million times, but never doubt the Bible. Pascal was a strong believer in the Bible, and while "scientists" believed that air had no mass, weight or volume, he believed the Bible. Newton was a Christian, whom everybody sees as a great scientific pioneer. Science always, always supports the Bible. Evolution is the only "science" that makes people question God's Word.
But i still don't see how the Bible makes more sense. If evolution and the Bible seemed to make sense to me, believe me -- i wouldn't support Creation. Evolution just isn't a sound theory or philosophy.
Before, when i only heard of evolution, i didn't take God's word seriously. I thought it was for old ladies and simpletons. Creation, i thought, was a supersticious myth. I can't believe that now. I have seen evidence for Creation and it is astounding. I now believe in God's Word completely. I can finally stand for something which will affect eterity and my life after i die. I heard someone say, [GLOW=darkblue]"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything."[/GLOW]
God bless you my friends,
Alex
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Your God must be a huge sadist to torture all the humans who work in sweatshops today. Especially those who go their whole lives without ever having a chance to learn about His word.
Tailbone on humans. And don't tell me it isn't there or I'll point it out for you.
Evolution proposes natural selection, not God-guided selection.
Please double-check your source for the Einstein quote.
Newton disapproved of the Trinity. Not a good Christian in my sense of the word.
I have reason to believe you say that because evolution doesn't agree with the Bible, not because of any flaws in the theory.
And that's why I don't take the Bible literally.
Thank you, please drive through.
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Late_Cretaceous
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"I defy you to name one real vestigial organ in nature. "
Here is the definition for vestigial from the Merriam-Webster's online dictionary
Main Entry: ves·tige
Pronunciation: 'ves-tij
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Latin vestigium footstep, footprint, track, vestige
Date: 1602
1 a (1) : a trace, mark, or visible sign left by something (as an ancient city or a condition or practice) vanished or lost (2) : the smallest quantity or trace b : FOOTPRINT 1
2 : a bodily part or organ that is small and degenerate or imperfectly developed in comparison to one more fully developed in an earlier stage of the individual, in a past generation, or in closely related forms
Here are a few vestigial organs in humans; the vomeronasal organ, the appendix, the tail bone, the muscles that move your ears (they don't work for all people).
You also have hipbones in whales, wings in kiwis, eyespots in blind cave dwelling salamanders, toenails in manatees, etc. etc.
THere are HUNDREDS of examples of vestigial organs in nature.
Here is the definition for vestigial from the Merriam-Webster's online dictionary
Main Entry: ves·tige
Pronunciation: 'ves-tij
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Latin vestigium footstep, footprint, track, vestige
Date: 1602
1 a (1) : a trace, mark, or visible sign left by something (as an ancient city or a condition or practice) vanished or lost (2) : the smallest quantity or trace b : FOOTPRINT 1
2 : a bodily part or organ that is small and degenerate or imperfectly developed in comparison to one more fully developed in an earlier stage of the individual, in a past generation, or in closely related forms
Here are a few vestigial organs in humans; the vomeronasal organ, the appendix, the tail bone, the muscles that move your ears (they don't work for all people).
You also have hipbones in whales, wings in kiwis, eyespots in blind cave dwelling salamanders, toenails in manatees, etc. etc.
THere are HUNDREDS of examples of vestigial organs in nature.
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I have a headache, but here:
You've never heard of politics? I'll tell you, historically whenever communists came into any area, the first thing they taught the local people was not marxism or communism or socialism -- it was evolution. Evolution benefits communists, nazis, Ku Klux Klan, envilonmentalists, racists.
Evolution degrades the value of human life through the philosophy of "man is created by chance, not by God. Man does nothing to help nature but only pollutes all over. It would be no loss if mankind dissapeared from the earth." The nazis' actions and racism comes in here through the "survival of the fittest" ideology.
Stalin said, "If it's survival of the strongest, i will be the strongest." Hitler killed Jews because he thought that they were least developed of all humans. Heck -- nazis didn't even call Jews "humans." They saw them as "a sort of animal." Moussolini believed that the Africans, who lived just south of the Mediterranean, were least useful of all people.
There's nothing in the philosophy of evolution that supports the Bible or benefits Christians, which brings us to your next statement:
I don't know who told you this, but you are simply deceived. Don't take offense, but this is not fact -- just hearsay. Some of my relatives lived in Russia all their lives. They went to prisons in the communist times for God's Word. And they never compromised the Bible for some far-out philosophy. Many people died in the communist and nazi labor camps. They held secret home-based Church services, hoping and praying that the "militia" (communist police) wouldn't come and arrest and fine them.
Even today, in China, being a Christian is very hard. People are imprisoned and tortured for believing in God's Word. Sudan, the African country, makes slaves out of the Christians. They are killed, mutilated, sold... all for their belief. Would we have that kind of strength and courage if these kind of problems came to our home towns?
Or maybe you mean European countries like Germany. I study the German language and i like learning about the country. What i've read is that many Germans consider themselves Christians. Mostly Catholics and some Protestants. The thing is that Christianity in Germany is very watered down. Like here in America, some people go to Church once a year and consider themselves Christians. No wonder many of them couldn't recite a single verse from the Bible, let alone defend Creation.
But still, i would never say or believe that the majority of Christians support evolution.
That's some circular reasoning right there. "Evolution explains biology, biology explains evolution." What? Think about what you're saying, man.
Anyway, darwinian evolution doesn't explain anything in biology. It just poses more questions. Problem is that most darwinists automatically assume that we are related to animals or that animals are related to each other. That's like this:
[color=000055]x = 3y
But we don't know the value of x or y. So we make up a value for y. "4"
x = 3(4)
x = 12[/color]
That's illogical, but satisfies us because we aren't looking for the truth. We just want to look like we're doing something.
If you dig deeper, you will see what difference your belief makes in history. USSR was governed by a darwinist, atheist government. USA were governed by a creationist, Christan government. The histories of the two nations are totally different. The USSR didn't last 80 years. America is 225 and counting.
Beliefs make a difference, definitely. The Palestinians, for example, think it killing innocent Jews is a good thing. People's beliefs help make decisions about life and death.
Couldn't have God just given people and dogs similar hip joints when He created them on the sixth day? Thinking that it could've only happened in evolution is a very closed-minded belief.
Creation is a valid explanation of this. Don't dismiss that.
The Chevrolet Corvette is an original car -- it doesn't share its body with another model, the way the Camaro and Firebird does, for example. But the mirrors on the Corvette are generic mirrors which some other GM cars have. See, several completely different models have the same exact mirrors. The one thing the cars share is a common creator -- General Motors, who supplied them with mirrors.
Same with us humans. We share some minor details with animals like dogs. But that's because God gave us these useful things. Could you figure out a better type of hip joint for humans?
Alex
You've never heard of politics? I'll tell you, historically whenever communists came into any area, the first thing they taught the local people was not marxism or communism or socialism -- it was evolution. Evolution benefits communists, nazis, Ku Klux Klan, envilonmentalists, racists.
Evolution degrades the value of human life through the philosophy of "man is created by chance, not by God. Man does nothing to help nature but only pollutes all over. It would be no loss if mankind dissapeared from the earth." The nazis' actions and racism comes in here through the "survival of the fittest" ideology.
Stalin said, "If it's survival of the strongest, i will be the strongest." Hitler killed Jews because he thought that they were least developed of all humans. Heck -- nazis didn't even call Jews "humans." They saw them as "a sort of animal." Moussolini believed that the Africans, who lived just south of the Mediterranean, were least useful of all people.
There's nothing in the philosophy of evolution that supports the Bible or benefits Christians, which brings us to your next statement:
I don't know who told you this, but you are simply deceived. Don't take offense, but this is not fact -- just hearsay. Some of my relatives lived in Russia all their lives. They went to prisons in the communist times for God's Word. And they never compromised the Bible for some far-out philosophy. Many people died in the communist and nazi labor camps. They held secret home-based Church services, hoping and praying that the "militia" (communist police) wouldn't come and arrest and fine them.
Even today, in China, being a Christian is very hard. People are imprisoned and tortured for believing in God's Word. Sudan, the African country, makes slaves out of the Christians. They are killed, mutilated, sold... all for their belief. Would we have that kind of strength and courage if these kind of problems came to our home towns?
Or maybe you mean European countries like Germany. I study the German language and i like learning about the country. What i've read is that many Germans consider themselves Christians. Mostly Catholics and some Protestants. The thing is that Christianity in Germany is very watered down. Like here in America, some people go to Church once a year and consider themselves Christians. No wonder many of them couldn't recite a single verse from the Bible, let alone defend Creation.
But still, i would never say or believe that the majority of Christians support evolution.
That's some circular reasoning right there. "Evolution explains biology, biology explains evolution." What? Think about what you're saying, man.
Anyway, darwinian evolution doesn't explain anything in biology. It just poses more questions. Problem is that most darwinists automatically assume that we are related to animals or that animals are related to each other. That's like this:
[color=000055]x = 3y
But we don't know the value of x or y. So we make up a value for y. "4"
x = 3(4)
x = 12[/color]
That's illogical, but satisfies us because we aren't looking for the truth. We just want to look like we're doing something.
If you dig deeper, you will see what difference your belief makes in history. USSR was governed by a darwinist, atheist government. USA were governed by a creationist, Christan government. The histories of the two nations are totally different. The USSR didn't last 80 years. America is 225 and counting.
Beliefs make a difference, definitely. The Palestinians, for example, think it killing innocent Jews is a good thing. People's beliefs help make decisions about life and death.
Couldn't have God just given people and dogs similar hip joints when He created them on the sixth day? Thinking that it could've only happened in evolution is a very closed-minded belief.
Creation is a valid explanation of this. Don't dismiss that. The Chevrolet Corvette is an original car -- it doesn't share its body with another model, the way the Camaro and Firebird does, for example. But the mirrors on the Corvette are generic mirrors which some other GM cars have. See, several completely different models have the same exact mirrors. The one thing the cars share is a common creator -- General Motors, who supplied them with mirrors.
Same with us humans. We share some minor details with animals like dogs. But that's because God gave us these useful things. Could you figure out a better type of hip joint for humans?
Alex
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This is a silly rant. Politicians bent on conquest, genocide, murder or self-aggrandizement can call on the theory of evolution for support all they want to - that doesn't mean that either:
a) the theory of evolution is actually valid support for such (it isn't)
b) the theory of evolution must be wrong.
So who cares?
You aren't ditching the Bible because of all the atrocities it has been borrowed as justification for are you?
I don't know what the philosophy of evolution is. I doubt very seriously that anyone here adheres to it. The group here is very diverse philosophically.
As far as science, it rarely comments on the Bible or Christianity, but most Christians say that the Bible teaches the virtue of seeking understanding - which is what science does.
The fact that evolution accurately explains biology is support for the theory of evolution. I don't know what you are getting at, but there is no circular reasoning. At least not in that comment.
Sure it does. It explains the unity and diversity of life. Extremely well.
Questions are good. Can't learn without them.
No Darwin hypothesized that all the fauna were related by common descent. The evidence confirmed that all the fauna are related by common descent. No one has to make any assumptions at all so therefore this:
... isn't really a good analogy.
Neither the US nor the USSR has had any scientists running their government in the past 150 years. Maybe you should double check your facts.
Indeed beliefs do make a difference. I'm glad you and I agree on something.
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- Jun 24, 2002
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No, he isn't perfect. But the Word of God is without error. If he depends on the Bible, he can't go wrong. You should read your Bible too.
Alex
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Well, it was "good" up until that point when he decided it was "bad". Then he kind of killed every living creature in his [GLOW=darkblue]"infinite mercy."[/GLOW]
The human tailbone. DOH!
Also, the whales have vestigial legs. Can you point out the verse in Genesis where the walking whales were cursed by God to slither, errr.. swim?
If God did everything right the first time, why the Flood? Why all of the extinct species in the fossil record?
You are incredibly ill-informed. You see, Einstein was neither a Christian nor an observing Jew, and did not believe in the veracity of the Bible.
Here are some real quotes from Einstein:
Wait... you are talking about Albert Einstein, right?
ummm, have you ever heard of a guy named Galileo?
Also, I'd like to point out that Pascal and Newton were Christians at a time when non-Christians were often burned at the stake. Imagine that. They were Christians.
Unfortunately for your opinion, there is all of that bothersome evidence...
And when you take your stand you might want to be careful of what you are stepping in.
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I definitely could not have said that better.
You've never heard of Lysenko? I'll tell you. Historically communists actually rejected Darwinism because it was too capitalist. Lysenkoism was championed by the communist party, and Russian biology and agriculture still hasn't recovered. Yet somehow you managed to neglect that fact in you rant. Maybe you should try a new bashing tactic.
It not my fault that knowing you are related to monkeys makes you feel worthless. That is something that you are going to have to deal with. Last time I looked, most Christians believe that babies are born sinners. Is that not a degradation of human life? The accuracy of science cannot be determined by religion, emotion, politics, or philosophy. If you want to debunk biology, stick to science and stop making worthless emotional appeals.
Source please.
Source please.
Okay, I'll remember to not confuse you with the facts.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." --Theodosius DobzhanskyLikewise, you automatically assume that you are related to your parents. Do you see how silly you sound? If relationships are only assumptions, how do you explain the congruence of morphological, fossil, and genetic evidence?
And thats just another example of a creationist picking apart a cartoon version of science, totally oblivious that the real one doesnt have a scratch on it.
I dont know what world you live it, but America embraced Darwinism and Russia rejected it. You can see how history sorted out the quacks.
Couldn't have God just given people and dogs similar hip joints when He created them on the sixth day? Thinking that it could've only happened in evolution is a very closed-minded belief.
Of course, you are ignoring all the evidence that humans werent created on the sixth day. I know of no interpretation of genesis that allows for the creator to specifically create then destroy his creations only to make more that are similar but different and repeat the cycle slowly approaching extant forms. Special creation is incompatible with the structure of the fossil record.
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Late_Cretaceous
<font color="#880000" ></font&g
"USA were governed by a creationist, Christan government"
Oh really? Isn't there something called the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND GOVERNMENT in the USA. In fact, I was under the impression that the USA invented that concept.
Oh really? Isn't there something called the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND GOVERNMENT in the USA. In fact, I was under the impression that the USA invented that concept.
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Late_Cretaceous
<font color="#880000" ></font&g
"God just given people and dogs similar hip joints when He created them on the sixth day? "
Well, according to one of the two creation myths in genesis. According to the other creation myth in genesis, man was created first, then the animals as helpers - but they didn't work out (oops God made a mistake), then woman.
Well, according to one of the two creation myths in genesis. According to the other creation myth in genesis, man was created first, then the animals as helpers - but they didn't work out (oops God made a mistake), then woman.
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LewisWildermuth
Senior Veteran
No, he isn't perfect. But the Word of God is without error. If he depends on the Bible, he can't go wrong. You should read your Bible too.
Alex
I have many times Alex.
Where exactly does it state that it is without error?
Alex
I have many times Alex.
Where exactly does it state that it is without error?
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LewisWildermuth
Senior Veteran
Well, did God make an uber intelligent walking snake or is snake simply a way to refer to satan or temptation?
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Lanakila
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That depends on if you believe in the literal interpretation of scripture or allegorize certain passages you don't like or agree with, Lewis. Which becomes a problem, because if the whole Bible isn't literally true and we can pick and chose the parts we like, then the liberals may be right in denying Jesus literal resurrection. Do you see what I mean? Denying any part can lead down a slippery slope to denying it all.
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