How Fauci Fooled America

[ozso]

 

[public hermit]

In the beginning Fauci said masks weren't needed. Mask wearing was played down because he wanted masks to go to front line medical workers.

Agreed. Why not be up front? Say: We're worried there won't be enough for front line workers, please make your own. We started out making our own, anyway. This could have been a uniting moment had the administration played it right. Instead, doubt and mistrust were sown in a situation where that was already a problem.

 

[RDKirk]

In the beginning Fauci said masks weren't needed. Mask wearing was played down because he wanted masks to go to front line medical workers.

Fauci spoke in ignorance of the logistical system. N-95 asks for front line medical workers were made in the same 3M factory as masks for civilians, but on different production lines and then went through entirely different shipping processes. When the medical requirement surpassed 3M's total capability, 3M would--and, in fact did, shut down the civilian product lines and produce only the medical product that would go through the medical supply chain.

An increased civilian demand for N-95 masks would not have effected the medical supply chain. Civilians would merely have found empty shelves at Ace Hardware and Home Depot.

However, by denying a need for N-95 masks for civilians, Fauci destroyed any possibility of American industry ramping up to supply that market. Several companies were willing and eager to do so. General Motors had already even retooled an assembly line. All they needed was for the feds to give them the permission and to facilitate the patent licensing (by which they'd pay a few cents to 3M for every mask they made).

But the federal government told them "No." The government actually told them "No"...because Fauci advised that civilians should not wear masks.

If Fauci had told the truth: "Everyone needs to wear masks, but I'm afraid the supply isn't sufficient," that would have created the market and impetus for American industry to step up to the task. Every manufacturer who currently makes a HEPA filter product could have quickly retooled to make N-95 masks. The shutdown would have only been for the period it took for them to get masks on the shelves so that American workers could work in relative safety while still within the contagion.

But Fauci lied about that. The contagion is still here, and we're buying masks made in China and South Korea.

 

[timothyu]

When did spreading false rumors become such a widespread practice among Christians?

" chief of bioethics and head of human subjects research at the NIH Clinical Center." If it's funded, she approved it.

About the same time those in denial started claiming that.

 

[timothyu]

An increased civilian demand for N-95 masks would not have effected the medical supply chain. Civilians would merely have found empty shelves at Ace Hardware and Home Depot.

Toronto-area teacher faced suspension for wearing N95 mask to class

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1962559555961

 

[Belk]

No, that's false. When did spreading false rumors become such a widespread practice among Christians?

Always? Isn't that why it is listed as one of the chief sins?

 

[RDKirk]

Toronto-area teacher faced suspension for wearing N95 mask to class

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1962559555961

An example of ignorance extending from Fauci's lie about masks.

First, we don't know the details of that situation. Was the issue simply that the teacher was not specifically wearing a "surgical mask" as specified government, but was wearing some other kind of mask such as a KN-95 or a KF-94? Those are easily found on the shelves these days.

Also, 3M has in the last few months been putting a small supply of genuine--but civilian-grade--N-95 masks back on the shelves for civilian uses because civilians working in a number of industries truly do need them.

None of this affects the supply of medical masks.

 

[ozso]

Fauci spoke in ignorance of the logistical system. N-95 asks for front line medical workers were made in the same 3M factory as masks for civilians, but on different production lines and then went through entirely different shipping processes. When the medical requirement surpassed 3M's total capability, 3M would--and, in fact did, shut down the civilian product lines and produce only the medical product that would go through the medical supply chain.

An increased civilian demand for N-95 masks would not have effected the medical supply chain. Civilians would merely have found empty shelves at Ace Hardware and Home Depot.

However, by denying a need for N-95 masks for civilians, Fauci destroyed any possibility of American industry ramping up to supply that market. Several companies were willing and eager to do so. General Motors had already even retooled an assembly line. All they needed was for the feds to give them the permission and to facilitate the patent licensing (by which they'd pay a few cents to 3M for every mask they made).

But the federal government told them "No." The government actually told them "No"...because Fauci advised that civilians should not wear masks.

If Fauci had told the truth: "Everyone needs to wear masks, but I'm afraid the supply isn't sufficient," that would have created the market and impetus for American industry to step up to the task. Every manufacturer who currently makes a HEPA filter product could have quickly retooled to make N-95 masks. The shutdown would have only been for the period it took for them to get masks on the shelves so that American workers could work in relative safety while still within the contagion.

But Fauci lied about that. The contagion is still here, and we're buying masks made in China and South Korea.

If he had told the truth, it would have ended the experiment too soon.

 

[sfs]

" chief of bioethics and head of human subjects research at the NIH Clinical Center." If it's funded, she approved it.

Yikes. The NIH Clinical Center is a clinical research hospital. Grady's job is to advice on and research the ethics of human subjects research at that hospital. She has nothing whatever to do with approving funding for external grants by the NIH. What you're claiming is just a complete fabrication.

I know it's considered acceptable practice around here to smear anyone you don't like with whatever juicy tidbit you heard somewhere without troubling yourself about whether it's true or not -- and of course, retracting or apologizing for attacks that have been shown to be false would be positively unchristian. But could you at least try to make up libels that are less transparently ridiculous?

 

[sfs]

Always?

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[KCfromNC]

When i say "ultra pro vaccine", i'm referring to people who:

a) believe that the mandates should be unquestioned
b) jeer those who chose not to get vaccinated when coerced for employment, including health care workers, who were on the front lines in this pandemic and have equal or better protection that the vaccinated as they have naturally acquired immunity.
c) deride any negative information about the vaccine as "anti-vaxx" regardless of the source of the information

Interesting list of strawmen here.

 

[Bradskii]

Interesting list of strawmen here.

I'm firmly in the b category. A good jeer against those who want their freedom not to get vaccinated cheers me up immensely. Especially if I'm out and about in a bar or having a meal and they can't get in.

Incidently, there has been a subtle change in how you prove you are safe to, for example, travel. You have to get diagnostically tested to show that the necessary antibodies are present. Either from having caught covid or after being vaccinated (if I wanted to fly to Singapore I'd need three tests - one before I left, one when I arrived and one a few days later. But those tests can be expensive - it would add a few hundred dollars to the trip).

Not sure why medical staff who don't want the vaccine and have been infected don't get tested the same way. If the test shows you're ok then carry on. If not, then don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Since we're talking about how Fauci was supposedly wrong, can we discuss all the debunked (mostly) right wing conspiracy talking points too?

First we had "It's just the flu". Then we graduated to "You don't need masks". Then when covid proved to be an airborne virus that was killing thousands, we had "they're dying of something else". As lockdowns happened it became "lockdowns don't work". Not to forget the "it's all a conspiracy by the government to take over the country" kooks. Then the vaccine was released, and it became "vaccines don't work".

 

[Bradskii]

Since we're talking about how Fauci was supposedly wrong, can we discuss all the debunked (mostly) right wing conspiracy talking points too?

First we had "It's just the flu". Then we graduated to "You don't need masks". Then when covid proved to be an airborne virus that was killing thousands, we had "they're dying of something else". As lockdowns happened it became "lockdowns don't work". Not to forget the "it's all a conspiracy by the government to take over the country" kooks. Then the vaccine was released, and it became "vaccines don't work".

Can I add one? And this from a few days ago...

Emerald Robinson from Newsmax: 'the vaccines contain a bioluminescent marker called LUCIFERASE so that you can be tracked'. https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...racy-theorist-inside-white-house-press-corps/

 

[timothyu]

Especially if I'm out and about in a bar or having a meal and they can't get in.

I would be on the inside but I'm not sure why they are afraid the unvaxxed might get the virus in their restaurant.

 

[timothyu]

These are some of the aspirations, words and writings of one Klaus Schwab (Founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum) originators of the Build Back Better movement.

* “The mind-boggling innovations triggered by the fourth industrial revolution, from biotechnology to AI, are redefining what it means to be human,”

* “The future will challenge our understanding of what it means to be human, from both a biological and a social standpoint”. (35)

* “Already, advances in neurotechnologies and biotechnologies are forcing us to question what it means to be human”.

** “Fourth Industrial Revolution technologies will not stop at becoming part of the physical world around us—they will become part of us. Indeed, some of us already feel that our smartphones have become an extension of ourselves. Today’s external devices—from wearable computers to virtual reality headsets—will almost certainly become implantable in our bodies and brains. Exoskeletons and prosthetics will increase our physical power, while advances in neurotechnology enhance our cognitive abilities. We will become better able to manipulate our own genes, and those of our children. These developments raise profound questions: Where do we draw the line between human and machine? What does it mean to be human?”

* “the ability of new technologies to literally become part of us” “curious mixes of digital-and-analog life that will redefine our very natures”

* “These technologies will operate within our own biology and change how we interface with the world. They are capable of crossing the boundaries of body and mind, enhancing our physical abilities, and even having a lasting impact on life itself “.

* “active implantable microchips that break the skin barrier of our bodies”, “smart tattoos”, “biological computing” and “custom-designed organisms”

* “sensors, memory switches and circuits can be encoded in common human gut bacteria”, “Smart Dust, arrays of full computers with antennas, each much smaller than a grain of sand, can now organize themselves inside the body”, “implanted devices will likely also help to communicate thoughts normally expressed verbally through a ‘built-in’ smartphone, and potentially unexpressed thoughts or moods by reading brain waves and other signals”

* “Synthetic biology” “the ability to customize organisms by writing DNA”.

 

[muichimotsu]

I don't call anyone that supports getting vaccinated "ultra pro vaccine".

There are plenty of people who support getting vaccinated that:

a) don't believe mandates are appropriate
b) believe that those who have previous infection and detectable antibodies don't need the vaccine
c) believe that there is not yet enough data to indicate all children should be vaccinated
d) understand that not all vaccines are equally effective and safe

When i say "ultra pro vaccine", i'm referring to people who:

a) believe that the mandates should be unquestioned
b) jeer those who chose not to get vaccinated when coerced for employment, including health care workers, who were on the front lines in this pandemic and have equal or better protection that the vaccinated as they have naturally acquired immunity.
c) deride any negative information about the vaccine as "anti-vaxx" regardless of the source of the information

Personally, i believe in vaccination as a scientific fact, but note that there are several things about the Covid vaccines that are substantially different than other vaccines that are being used. I'm up to date with other required vaccinations, and did so without hesitation.

If the Covid vaccines actually stopped the spread of Covid in a meaningful way, i would have gotten vaccinated for that as well.

a) don't believe mandates are appropriate
b) believe that those who have previous infection and detectable antibodies don't need the vaccine
c) believe that there is not yet enough data to indicate all children should be vaccinated
d) understand that not all vaccines are equally effective and safe


A)Mandates were not the initial solution, it's an ultimatum based on the real threat the virus poses in terms of the healthcare system and people's long term health, plus preventable deaths that will still happen (because comorbidity)

B) We know for a fact that's not an absolute, because that's like acting as if any infection and resultant immunoresponse means we don't need inoculation when it is also a fact that viruses and bacteria evolve so that they can get around our supposed "natural immunity", which is not 100% by any stretch or even long standing even if in a short term it may very well be stronger (that's IF you survive)

C)-OMFG, no one ever said all children, so stop the strawman right there. I've never been one to advocate an all or nothing situation, but if you have no legitimate medical exemption, then the religious ones meant squat and you're spitting on those that cannot get vaccinated because of being immunocompromised or the like. I want to get as many children as possible vaccinated, that is VASTLY different than just saying all children. I don't work in absolute generalizations, so try not to paint people as doing that for your example for a counterpoint, because it's disingenuous.

D) Did anyone claim all vaccines had equal efficacy or were for everyone? No. There are going to be reactions that some have to certain types of vaccine, but that's far less likely in regards to mRNA versus inactive or live vaccines, which are 1st or 2nd generation relative to what is easily 3rd or even possibly 4th if we factor in adenovirus as well. Or is that ALSO dangerous because some people spread disinformation on that, same as the absurd laughable claims than an mRNA vaccine will rewrite your DNA (when it does no such thing)? Again, if you want to bring up some legitimate objections, then start by not treating your opposition like they're dribbling 5 year olds

a) believe that the mandates should be unquestioned
b) jeer those who chose not to get vaccinated when coerced for employment, including health care workers, who were on the front lines in this pandemic and have equal or better protection that the vaccinated as they have naturally acquired immunity.
c) deride any negative information about the vaccine as "anti-vaxx" regardless of the source of the information

Wow, just like I thought, vast generalizations and hyperbole, as if that shows you're the "rational" one by painting everyone with a broad brush and using this as some kind of evidence that there's a conspiracy, rather than taking individuals on a case by case versus cherrypicking what fits your narrative where you're the poor pitiful "victim"

Again, you don't get to make these claims without substantiating them and having the intellectual humility to consider that you have to take conclusions provisionally and not as an absolute, as if you could NEVER be wrong

The spin is what makes it anti vaxx, not information that in itself is not precluding the usefulness of vaccines, but observing something that may or may not be conclusive with further tests or considerations.

 

[muichimotsu]

Yikes. The NIH Clinical Center is a clinical research hospital. Grady's job is to advice on and research the ethics of human subjects research at that hospital. She has nothing whatever to do with approving funding for external grants by the NIH. What you're claiming is just a complete fabrication.

I know it's considered acceptable practice around here to smear anyone you don't like with whatever juicy tidbit you heard somewhere without troubling yourself about whether it's true or not -- and of course, retracting or apologizing for attacks that have been shown to be false would be positively unchristian. But could you at least try to make up libels that are less transparently ridiculous?

That assumes the person lobbing the mud doesn't regard the general audience as dumb enough to buy whatever they cook up to stir the pot. But remember...they think THEY'RE the good guys. Makes you want to laugh, hm?

 

[muichimotsu]

I would be on the inside but I'm not sure why they are afraid the unvaxxed might get the virus in their restaurant.

Maybe because the issue is not about catching it necessarily, since the delta variant can almost ignore the vaccine in that respect, but that some people actually care to not have others get sick from a preventable disease with freely available vaccines. That "pesky" human empathy thing strikes again where some people prefer to just believe they're right, evidence contrary to that be damned

 

[timothyu]

but that some people actually care to not have others get sick from a preventable disease with freely available vaccines.

The ol' this is for your own good, even if we have to get nasty about it? Both sides of the fence looking for excuses to power trip.