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How essential is Ellen White to SDA?

DennisTate

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By the year 2300, I do not believe that anyone will disagree... with anything. I do not believe that anyone evil will have any infliuence on anyone else.



Shabbat Shalom Stan...the Sabbath just began here in Nova Scotia, Canada!

I used to think the exact same thing but over these past 22 years I have gotten to the point where I have so many questions that it is difficult for me to make a dogmatic assertion on questions that I used to consider simple.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


I may be wrong but I have the impression that even during the era of Messiah/Moshiach, there will be people living on this earth who have some terrible thought and behaviour patterns!

As a Christian who has actually ran for public office on three occasions (merely 31 votes in all three campaigns combined so if anybody wants to begin a film project on Canada's worst politician, I am willing to volunteer)...I am forced to consider how the laws of God should be applied on this third rock in the year 2012!

It seems that a powerful case can be presented that the era of Messiah/Moshiach may be vastly more "libertarian" than I would have imagined twenty five years ago! All those people with bad habits that are outside the New Jerusalem, have not been rounded up and executed as some more right wing Christians might have suspected!

Maybe even during the era of Moshiach/Messiah God's own people will face the test of having to love rather thoroughly unlovable human beings?!?!?!
 
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Stan Tei

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Do not be deceived. Satan himself will come first, personating the coming of Christ. So many will believe that he is their expected Messiah. He will perform miracles and appear angelic. He will claim to be God.

However, the true Messiah will not come and set up His kingdom here on this earth UNTIL He recreates the earth new, after the millennium.

"In My Father's house are many mansions..." That is not here on this earth.

The end of this world is within the next few years. The collapse of society as we know it, is imminent. Satan will come as the Christ to "save us" from our own self-destruction.
 
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DennisTate

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Do not be deceived. Satan himself will come first, personating the coming of Christ. So many will believe that he is their expected Messiah. He will perform miracles and appear angelic. He will claim to be God.

However, the true Messiah will not come and set up His kingdom here on this earth UNTIL He recreates the earth new, after the millennium.

"In My Father's house are many mansions..." That is not here on this earth.

The end of this world is within the next few years. The collapse of society as we know it, is imminent. Satan will come as the Christ to "save us" from our own self-destruction.



Aha yes....I had forgotten about that doctrine!


Zechariah 8:4
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

Zechariah 8:15
So again have I thought in these days to do well unto Jerusalem and to the house of Judah: fear ye not.

I have been seriously in error on a lot of questions over the years but I still get the impression from Zechariah 14 that the Battle of Har Megiddo leads into an era of Moshiach/Messiah within months or at most years?!

Have you ever heard the theory of two separate millennial periods?

Zechariah 14 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.....

Zechariah 14:16 ¶
And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Aha yes....I had forgotten about that doctrine!


Zechariah 8:4

Zechariah 8:15

I have been seriously in error on a lot of questions over the years but I still get the impression from Zechariah 14 that the Battle of Har Megiddo leads into an era of Moshiach/Messiah within months or at most years?!

Have you ever heard the theory of two separate millennial periods?

Zechariah 14 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.....

Zechariah 14:16 ¶

Don't forget that alot of the OT prophesies were for the Israelites forthere time.... the one in Zech 14 had it's fulfilment in OT time. There can be a double, sometimes a triple application of some prophesies but some are just what they were meant for, a prophesy for their time.
 
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DennisTate

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Don't forget that alot of the OT prophesies were for the Israelites forthere time.... the one in Zech 14 had it's fulfilment in OT time. There can be a double, sometimes a triple application of some prophesies but some are just what they were meant for, a prophesy for their time.

Yes, there were relatively minor revivals in Jewish history but certainly nothing yet that would cause the Jewish people to virtually ignore the Exodus from the time of Moshe/Moses due to the fact that it had been so totally overshadowed by an even greater event?!




Jeremiah 23:7 ¶
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
 
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DennisTate

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Did Mrs. Ellen White say much of anything regarding the city of Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple according to all that is predicted in Ezekiel 40 - 48?

A man from Uganda has predicted that the next major outpouring of the Holy Spirit will occur when Christians support the Jewish people in their desire to rebuild their Third Temple and fulfill all the words of the prophets.

His full writing can be seen at the top of this page:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7647317-3/
Should Christians support Jews in rebuilding of Third Temple?

Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23. (Eporu Ronald Alfred)
 
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Stan Tei

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Ellen White has said that there was no such work for our people there.

From Early Writings: Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error
of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have
a work to do there before the Lord comes. Such a view is calculated
to take the mind and interest from the present work of the Lord, under
the message of the third angel; for those who think that they are yet
to go to Jerusalem will have their minds there, and their means will
be withheld from the cause of present truth to get themselves and others
there. I saw that such a mission would accomplish no real good, that
it would take a long while to make a very few of the Jews believe even
in the first advent of Christ, much more to believe in His second advent.

There is nothing in what Ellen White wrote that says anything about rebuilding
the old temple. The is nothing but an evangelical deception of a more recent
origin and plays into the hand of Satan to enthrone him after he comes
personating Christ.
 
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DennisTate

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Interesting!

Thank you for that Stan!

Sometimes seemingly contradictory information later turns out to fit together perfectly. This statement seems to contradict:

Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Isaiah 45 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
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Stan Tei

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There will be a New Jerusalem that will descend from heaven. But that will happen after the millennium.

Before that, Satan will set up his throne upon "the sides of the north" near the location of the old temple. in the attempt to deceive the whole world.

So what will appear as the fulfillment of prophecy to the evangelical Christian, Satan will create the illusion so as to make it appear to be the fulfillment. On this note, the mass of Christianity will fall for the deceptions of Satan.
 
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DennisTate

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There will be a New Jerusalem that will descend from heaven. But that will happen after the millennium.

......


I am in agreement with you on this assertion Stan....yes, I believe that the Jerusalem Temple described in Revelation 21 comes after the millennial period is over!


Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 
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DennisTate

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There will be a New Jerusalem that will descend from heaven. But that will happen after the millennium.

Before that, Satan will set up his throne upon "the sides of the north" near the location of the old temple. in the attempt to deceive the whole world.

So what will appear as the fulfillment of prophecy to the evangelical Christian, Satan will create the illusion so as to make it appear to be the fulfillment. On this note, the mass of Christianity will fall for the deceptions of Satan.


Fascinating theory Stan!

I have read that when Satan is thrown down to the earth he will come as somebody who teaches truth...essentially devoid of grace/undeserved kindness!

"That is true, but it is not the point here," he entreated. "Everyone on earth is deserving of the second death, but our Savior brought us grace and truth. If we are to do His work we must do everything in both grace and truth. Truth without grace is what the enemy brings when he comes as an 'angel of light.'"
(Pastor Rick Joyner, from the section The Judgment Seat of Christ)
The Hordes of Hell are Marching
 
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DennisTate

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Ellen White has said that there was no such work for our people there.

From Early Writings: Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error
of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have
a work to do there before the Lord comes. Such a view is calculated
to take the mind and interest from the present work of the Lord, under
the message of the third angel; for those who think that they are yet
to go to Jerusalem will have their minds there, and their means will
be withheld from the cause of present truth to get themselves and others
there. I saw that such a mission would accomplish no real good, that
it would take a long while to make a very few of the Jews believe even
in the first advent of Christ, much more to believe in His second advent.

There is nothing in what Ellen White wrote that says anything about rebuilding
the old temple. The is nothing but an evangelical deception of a more recent
origin and plays into the hand of Satan to enthrone him after he comes
personating Christ.


Stan Tei....I cannot tell you how glad I am that I met you through this forum. This message that you just sent me is actually extremely important!

Thank you for praying because after reading your messages I could not sleep well at all and I believe that I was given the answer to what seems to be a discrepancy...but in actuality is not.

There is powerful evidence for the existence of far more than one BRANCH OF TIME!

What I mean by this is that perhaps an instant in 1989 or 1988 became like a Restore Point on a computer....Maybe it would be Yom Kippur....Anyway, the
G-d of Abraham can replicate the earth exactly as it was on that instant but then spin off an entirely new and vastly better branch of time in which world events work out entirely differently. New Branches of Time may be the most important way in which Ezekiel 37 is fulfilled again and again and again and again as many times as necessary to work out the full plan as well as the Mystery of the Plan of the G-d of Abraham.

Background information to this theory would be:
String theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anthropic principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cyclic model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and the writings of Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman especially on time, on life, and on a number of other subjects.
 
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DennisTate

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Do not be deceived. Satan himself will come first, personating the coming of Christ. So many will believe that he is their expected Messiah. He will perform miracles and appear angelic. He will claim to be God.

However, the true Messiah will not come and set up His kingdom here on this earth UNTIL He recreates the earth new, after the millennium.

"In My Father's house are many mansions..." That is not here on this earth.

The end of this world is within the next few years. The collapse of society as we know it, is imminent. Satan will come as the Christ to "save us" from our own self-destruction.


Stan Tei, Sir you have been guided to participate in this forum because what you just told me strongly indicates that Mrs. Ellen White was given advice on how to handle the earth/the future that is created when the full fledged mission of the Elijah was NOT done!!!!!

Malachi 4:6
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

I strongly suspect that what Mrs. White was shown regarding a desolate earth...has already occurred thousands of years ago...It was A POSSIBLE FUTURE depending on our choices....I suspect that to her it became THE FUTURE....but I have valid reason to strongly suspect that the worst possible case scenario as shown to Mrs. White has already occurred and will almost certainly not be OUR future...HaShem/G-d of Abraham willing!!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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Mr. Stan Tei or anybody ...I will greatly appreciate it if you could tell me which books by Mrs. Ellen White specify that Adventists really should not get distracted by the project of assisting with the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple?
 
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DennisTate

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Dennis, I don't believe that the rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem was ever an issue in Ellen White's time. And if it was ever conceived in the minds of some, it was not widely spread. There was not so much communication then as there is now with TV and internet today.


Exactly!

I may be wrong but I do believe that the year 2030 may prove to be significant somehow. That would be the 2000 year anniversary of this statement by Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua.


Luke 21:6
[As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Do a search for bulge in southern wall of Temple Mount and you will be surprised what you find!
 
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DennisTate

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I have my suspicions that perhaps the Jerusalem Temple that will fit the description given by the prophet Ezekiel must be built on the foundation laid by Zerubbabel....as opposed to any foundation laid by King Herod the Great!?!?

The Bulge on the Southern Wall of the Temple Mount Becomes Larger
The Bulge on the Southern Wall of the Temple Mount Becomes Larger

Archaeologists Say that the Southern Wall Will Soon Collapse Together with the Mosque
The Temple Mount Faithful to Sharon: Let it collapse! This is the Hand of G-d!

Zechariah 4:9
The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

One caution on my feelings toward the year 2030 is that often a 360 day prophetic year works out more accurately.
 
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zeke37

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i have a lot in common with SDA theology...

the "temple of God" according to Paul, who wrote 2Thes2
is very clearly us who believe in Christ, as pre-defined 4 times in a row in his other writings.
infact, Paul says that God does not dwell in buildings of brick.

look up "temple of God" in the NT and see what you guys come up with yourselves.


so, the false Christ (Satan in disguise) comes and pretends to be Jesus Christ.
Paul taught that he shall actually sit in us as God...since we are the temple of God.
iow, if a Christian believes that Satan is the returned Christ,
then Satan will have effectively "sat" in that temple of God (us).

he is coming to seduce the potential bride of Christ...
he's already got the rest.
 
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stinsonmarri

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Greetings to All:

I read some of the comments and I felt that the original question needed to be answer first.

How essential is Ellen White to SDA?

Does everyone here feel that Ellen White is a prophet? Does anyone struggle with that? Does belief in Ellen White's prophethood make or break one's Seventh Day Adventist faith?

EGW as do Hiram Edson visions are extremely important but it will not break one's SDA faith. The reason is clear what she saw was in the Bible. The problem that EGW had is she accepted as did most during her time the history of Josephus "Antiquity." Josephus was a Pharisee born a Jew but also a Roman citizen. He betrayed his own people during the invasion of Titus in AD 70. He did not believe that Yashua was the true Messiah and his history was bias. However, EGW actual visions are Bible base but the gaps of history she had problem. EGW was a remarkable woman of faith but she too made mistakes. What most SDA forget that the pioneers held onto certain views from their original church that they left.

Next, I have constantly commented on the Traditional forum that she was not a prophet (which is a man, a woman would be called a prophetess). EGW herself stated that Yashua called her a messenger. Because of this it has turn many people off to what she wrote about and all these hateful comments on the web. Never did she ever state to believe in what she said, but take the Bible. Money has been made off her writings for greed because she did not write all the books claiming her name. If you notice they are quotes from her original writings. One of the best books she wrote herself is Testimony to the Ministers it set the record straight in her latter days.

The importance of her visions which was to enlighten what was already there in the Bible. Let's give an example of the most over look vision which was her first. (EW p. 14-17) EGW was simply looking for the Adventist people, but Elohim actually showed her what was in Dan Chapter 12:1-3, 7, 10-12; Matt 25:1-10; Rev 1:6; 3:14-18; 6:13-1; 7: 1-8; 11:1-6; 12:17; 14:1-12. The SDA church is not the remnant but a remnant will come out of her to finish the work during the Time of Trouble. Here is what some has fail to receive from her vision along with the Bible that the 144,000 will be preaching the word or the Two Witness (OT and NT) bringing on calamities as recorded in the OT to be repeated. The word angel we used actually means messenger and who are those wise virgin messengers, the 144,000 preaching the Cry of Rev 14. They are all of one accord sitting in the cloud with their future one crown throwing in their sickle to reap the great multitudes of souls. Do you need EGW of course but all will not accept her so accept the Bible. Read the above Scriptures and find the clues, "wise, virgins, midnight cry first fruit, angels or messengers, one golden crown, sickle, reap, Two Witnesses" and more.



Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri
 
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stinsonmarri

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Greetings to All:

There were two people who made some interesting statement I would like to comment on what they provided based on the Bible.

There is nothing in what Ellen White wrote that says anything about rebuilding the old temple.

I disagree with this statement. The destruction of Jerusalem while Yashua was on the earth was a twofold prophecy. She was not given everything because her mission was to send people back to read study prayerfully the Bible! The destruction of Jerusalem included the Temple and the city. And who is Babylon? Read Dan 11:45; Rev 11:2, 8; 18 Chapter. She did not have to be shown the event but the destruction of Jerusalem will be complete for third and final time. The whole life of Israel is about her Temple and it will be rebuilt. It is not located on the pinnacle where the Dome of the Rock is located, but down below on the Southeast which the Muslim's quarter is situated.

The is nothing but an evangelical deception of a more recent origin and plays into the hand of Satan to enthrone him after he comes personating Christ. Before that, Satan will set up his throne upon "the sides of the north" near the location of the old temple. in the attempt to deceive the whole world.

First I would like to ask where you came up with this comment because it is not in the Bible. Are you saying that Satan is the beast? If you are than I'm sorry that is not correct at all.

The "temple of God" according to Paul, who wrote 2Thes 2, is very clearly us who believe in Christ, as pre-defined 4 times in a row in his other writings infact, Paul says that God does not dwell in buildings of brick.

When Paul was talking about the body being the Temple it was base on each of individually allowing the Holy Spirit to dwell in our minds.

Look up "temple of God" in the NT and see what you guys come up with yourselves.


In Thessalonians Paul was not speaking of the mind because Satan cannot dwell in our minds only Elohim. Satan read's your impression because he cannot read the mind. The Bible says on YAHWEH looks on the inside and not you inner thoughts, not Satan.

So, the false Christ (Satan in disguise) comes and pretends to be Jesus Christ. Paul taught that he shall actually sit in us as God...since we are the temple of God. iow, if a Christian believes that Satan is the returned Christ, then Satan will have effectively "sat" in that temple of God (us).he is coming to seduce the potential bride of Christ...he's already got the rest.

I am truly sorry but this makes no sense at all. You must understand Satan has a seat, power and authority. The KJ scribes interpreted instead of translating Rev 12:9 (read EW 221, 222). Here is where she uplifts the Bible because we want to have private interpretation and there is none. Many will not take the time to first read what I'm about to say, pray about it, read again along with the Scriptures I will give you.

First, EGW present the evidence that Satan was not kick down to this earth the earth was not created. I don't know if she stopped and went to creation before finishing about Satan or was that changed by the church? I just don't know because it makes no sense how it was done. However, if you study with eyesalve given to you by the Holy Spirit you will see it.

Why do we think we are the center of everything? We are not Gen 2:1, 2 shows that we are the last to be created! Now EGW also provide information (but keep in mind it in the Bible already, you have to study), about Lucifer and he was kicked out of Heaven with angels. If we would place the story about Lucifer want to ask to be reinstated back to his original with Michael/Yashua, we would learn something very interesting.

What most of us really do not understand is that numerous worlds were already created when the final problem had been decided. Satan had been respected by these beings and YAHWEH'S name had been marred along with His principle of justice and equality. Jude 1:6 provides this as well as Rev 20:1-3 and the word bottomless pit is outer space. Satan has been the only one who has been allowed to move about the universe. The other angels are allowed limited time here but not all. They all will be release soon with the beast/man and we all cannot even imagine what they will do at that time to the wicked as the Bible describe in Rev Chapter nine that's why there are three woes given in Rev 8:13 that deals with their arrival here on earth.

It does not make sense that Satan gives powers to himself. We truly need to understand Satan never own this earth at all. He was only the "prince of the air." Man has been in outer space before when the "sons of Elohim presented themselves," Satan disguised himself, but the Son Elohim stops him at the gate twice. Adam is a son of the Most High and he came at one time like the rest of the unfallen world to Heaven. Men want to get back there again and if you think that was a simple old Ziggurat that made the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to come down it just don't make sense. The Trio did not come down during the flood or destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. Please people look outside the box, the History channel has a series about Aliens visiting man because of the numerous buildings and other intellectual things they are finding. They think man was primitive, he was not and it was him trying to find somewhere else to go after the flood. Man lost his intellect for eating raw meat of all kind especially the blood and other filth. "You are what you eat!" Now the image to the beast is Satan so he will play a role in deceiving the whole world. Notice that image comes alive and speaks as the serpent was supposed to speak in the Garden of Eden.

Finally have any of you watch History 2 channel about the aliens, I urge all to watch. These people are founding things that YAHWEH is revealing truth about man's attempt to venture into space. Even EGW made a mistake about angels knocking off the top of a tower. This is not in the Bible she heard as we all have been past down. The signs are there because nothing new is under the Sun. You all know these texts go over them carefully. Clues, bottomless pit, angels lost their first estate (Jude 1:6), key to the bottomless pit, Satan's seat and authority. Read where she talks about only Satan was present and afraid during the flood. Where are his angels? Read where Satan is the only one taken and now placed in the bottomless pit or a pit (darkness) no bottom (where the earth and all the other galaxies are hanging out at). Only one legion of angels of Satan is mentioned. 2/3 was kicked out and time travel is mention that day to Elohim is a thousand years to us!!!!! I want to see if you can find these passages if not let me know.

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri
 
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