How essential is Ellen White to SDA?

[stinsonmarri]

Greetings to All:​

I have read all the comments provided and those who are SDA are split on their views about EGW. I would like to answer the questions both from EGW herself and from the Bible!​

How essential is Ellen White to SDA? ​

She is just essential as all of the pioneers which include most of all William Miller.​

Does everyone here feel that Ellen White is a prophet? ​

This is where the SDA Denomination as a whole has made it bad for EGW. She is not a prophet and she stated this clearly herself! She is not the "Spirit of Prophecy," but she wrote spoke about the "Spirit of Prophecy," Yashua!​

Some have stumbled over the fact that I said I did not claim to be a prophet; "I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE A PROPHETESS," and they have asked, Why is this?​

I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am YAHWEH'S messenger; that He called me in my youth to be His messenger, to receive His word, and to give a clear and decided message in the name of Yashua. Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Yashua; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies.To claim to be a prophetess is something that I have never done. If others call me by that name, I have no controversy with them. But my work has covered so many lines that I cannot call myself other than a messenger, sent to bear a message from Yahweh to His people, and to take up work in any line that He points out. When I was last in Battle Creek, I said before a large congregation that I did not claim to be a prophetess. ​

Twice I referred to this matter, intending each time to make the statement, "I do not claim to be a prophetess." If I spoke otherwise than this, let all now understand that what I had in mind to say was that I do not claim the title of prophet or prophetess. During the discourse, I said that I did not claim to be a prophetess. Some were surprised at this statement, and as much is being said in regard to it, I will make an explanation. Others have called me a prophetess, but I have never assumed that title. I have not felt that it was my duty thus to designate myself. Those who boldly assume that they are prophets in this our day are often a reproach to the cause of Yashua.My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by Yahweh with messages for His people. My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more than the minds of those who have been sowing the seeds of unbelief can comprehend. 1SM 31-36 ​

In her early life she stated clearly that she was not a prophet or prophetess but she said she had no problem with others stating that she was. Later in life she firmly corrected what she said and made it clear that that it would bring a reproach to the cause of Yashua. And it has because the church and many on this forum refuse to accept the truth! They will not accept her own words that she was called by Yahweh to be His Messenger which came directly from His Son Yashua! How clear is that? (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:17, 18; MS 49, 1908) ​

Does anyone struggle with that?​

Many have struggle and left the faith because of the great lie that has brought a reproach on the message that EGW has given! The Church will have to give an account to Elohim about what they have done teaching doctrine and commandments of men! Matt 15:7-9​

Does belief in Ellen White's prophet hood make or break one's Seventh Day Adventist faith? ​

It has confused so many because she was not a prophetess but a messenger but those who stand on the Word of Elohim in which she constantly said "take the Bible!" EGW changed her views on many things after the 1888 Message of Jones and Waggoner that she advocated. But what she was given by Yahweh in her visions had been consistent. SDA Church has made unfounded money off her writings by producing new books and mixing her old views with her reform thought through the Holy Spirit. (TM p. 105-120) She has never told anyone to believe on what she said, but to take the Bible. She has also said she was to lead the Church back to the Bible. The church has made this woman to be above Elohim and a villain due to a reproach on this "she's a prophet" mess. Some of the ones on this forum refuse to see how they have damaged the message that she and others have given to this church by the folly they have made out of a woman who did not accept it then nor would she now!​

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri

 

[Sylvia49]

Matt 16:18 Jesus says "...I will build my church..."
Col 1:24 Paul says "...his body, which is the church..."
Etc....

So I do believe Jesus has a church on earth today.

 

[Stan Tei]

To the LAW and to the testimony, if they speak not according to the word.... Unfortunately, some read this to say: " if they speak not according to my understanding of the word. Many will reject the words of a prophet who speaks in favor of the LAW, when they do not fully accept the whole LAW of God.
See Malachi 4

 

[Stan Tei]

No, more should be explained. I think you missed the point. Ellen White spoke of the Law of God in 1888 in regard to the statutes. SDA GC president AG Daniels and Uriah Smith opposed her, saying that to adopt the constraint to eat pork, based on the statutes, would require that they keep all the statutes and that would give them "more than they could dispose of". They rejected the words of the prophet because they had a diminshed view of the Law of God.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I read that article, that the link was posted to, about the skeleton in the SDA closet... very compelling evidence for the keeping of the feasts, although I would want to do more research before i accepted it as truth.

 

[Stan Tei]

ECR, From what thread was that link posted? I can't seem to find it...

 

[Alawishis]

Sorry I've been away so long, I've really missed the stimulating discussions here.

The term "prophet" seems to have a different meaning today than it did in biblical times. Now the term conjures imagines of someone making bold predictions about the future, more of a "diviner" than a messenger or servant of God. A prophet did not need to make predictions on the future to be a prophet. I think if you asked most people today they would expect a prophet to primarily be about predicting the future.

I am aware of Ellen Whites many times of playing down the description of her role. Many time she rebuffed people who came to her and asked what they should do and she would shut them down saying don't come to me go read your bible. In my mind here in lies Ellen White's entire role; to point us back to the scriptures. If you take her writings above the bible you are in danger.

It was her will that we read the bible first and use her writings fill in details or give some background. In the church I attend which is admittedly very conservative Ellen White's writings are referenced very rarely. A sermon may have one quotation of her's and often have none at all. Sabbath school does not quote her as a rule, since it suppose to be a bible study. Plus we feel it may alienate any non-sda visitors we may have. Her writings should be used at home, in your own studies and only if you have her in perspective.

To answer the question what would the SDA church be like without Ellen White, I think you need look no further than the reformation. This was the birth of protestantism. There were many inspired saints who came forward to reveal God's light at that time. Martin Luther, who I greatly admire is one. He did much to get people back on track for what God planned for us. The Lutheran's were founded on his teachings. Today the Lutheran's no longer follow the doctrines that Martin Luther stood for. Lutheran's for the most part have drifted back into the fold of the Catholic church. There are differences but not many. Even Lutheran's and Catholics are often confused by what the differences may be. So what happened? Well the Catholics have not changed. They are basically the same church they were since the inquisitions. The Lutheran's drifted. Slowly here and there what they followed and believed, changed. Changed until they cam to where they are today. No weather you believe this is the product of the counter reformation, or just man's uncanny ability to not stay the ground on spiritual matters, the change is undeniable, and it's not just the Lutheran's. No offense meant to any Lutheran's reading this by the way.

So my belief is the Ellen White to the SDA church is a flag in the sand. A marker, or anchor if you will, to keep the church from doing what almost all churches do, drift.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So my belief is the Ellen White to the SDA church is a flag in the sand. A marker, or anchor if you will, to keep the church from doing what almost all churches do, drift.

Not only Ellen White but many pioneers that diligently studied to find the truths that make up the foundation of our faith. We are to walk in the old paths...

 

[Stan Tei]

They had Ellen White in 1888 and still "drifted" ...sent her to Australia, until things blew over from their blowing it at the GConference.

 

[Alawishis]

They had Ellen White in 1888 and still "drifted" ...sent her to Australia, until things blew over from their blowing it at the GConference.

True enough and still drifting today. I think it would be much worse if not for her, however.

 

[Alawishis]

As Revelation says, it is time to come out of all churches. We are only to come to Jesus and live as He commands. Jesus never fought against any church. He never put any church down. He didn't spend his time bad-mouthing. He just taught people how to get to heaven. Stop sinning, be perfect and keep the Ten Commandments to get our eternal life. So simple. Jesus Christ Prison Ministry was raised up by God carry on the mission they have fallen from. The book, "Change Your Life Biblically" was dictated by the Holy Spirit for our "present truth". To prepare us for Heaven. God bless all of you who truly are desiring to give up this world and live in the next.

True if you're taking about Christian churches. But during the life of Christ there was only one Christian church and Christ was it. Too bad we can't return to that dynamic. You might recall Christ had some pretty negative things to say about the Pharisees and Sadducee sects. Semantics aside these were the equivalent of different denominations today.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Those who read, study and obey the Bible studies and blessed, healed and sanctified. Those who refuse are cursed. May the Lord be with each one who takes the time to study them and obey them.

Strong statement there... are you saying that salvation comes through your Bible studies?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It is interesting how, throughout history, the wicked have always judged the righteous and called them arrogant for teaching what God gave the righteous to say. The world before Noah thought the same of Noah. Sodom before it was destroyed, Pharaoh before Moses, king Saul before Samuel, king Ahab before Elijah, Israel before Isaiah, Israel before Jeremiah and were destroyed and the Pharisees before John the Baptist and Jesus and the disciples. How strange it is that when God calls someone to give a "present truth" the "Children of the Kingdom" refuse to accept it. And so, said Jesus, the "Children of the Kingdom" will be cast out. Remember, it was tithe paying, church going, Sabbath keeping people looking for the Messiah who put Him on the cross. The same is happening today. I pray you all wake up before it is too late.

I think it's a bit presumptuous to think that no one here is living a sanctified life and not worthy of translation. If you are truly a messenger from God, your studies won't deviate from the light that's already been given in the Bible and through SOP.

I'm not saying that the message that you've been given to give isn't inspired but I am doubtful that at this late stage of earths history, if your message is essential for salvation, that it will be preached to all the world before the Lord comes.

I will go back to you site and read your discourse to be able to better respond...

 

[Stan Tei]

If you teach or make a statement to the effect that Jesus is coming again, than technically, you are a "prophet".

I would not even consider that person to be a self-proclaimed prophet. The only true prophets are those whom God calls. See Numbers 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the
LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto
him in a dream.

 

[DennisTate]

Does everyone here feel that Ellen White is a prophet? Does anyone struggle with that? Does belief in Ellen White's prophethood make or break one's Seventh Day Adventist faith?

I read a couple of her books and although I although I never joined the SDA church I believe that she had genuine out of the body experiences that fit perfectly with II Corinthians 12:2-4 as well as with the modern near death experience accounts!

George Ritchie - near-death experiences

Jesus gives him a tour of four different dimensions in the afterlife. They both fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. He witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to obtain a cigarette from the workers who are oblivious to her presence. This woman died severely addicted to cigarettes.

In a house, Jesus shows him the spirit of a boy following a living teenage girl and begging for forgiveness while the girl is completely unaware of the boy's presence. Jesus tells George that the boy committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."

Jesus shows George a bar filled with sailors who are heavily drinking. Spirits try desperately and in vain to get a drink or to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. These spirits are from humans who die severely alcoholic. He is horrified as he observes a drunken sailor pass out and an alcoholic spirit jump into the body of the sailor.

Jesus takes him to a new dimension away from Earth and shows him a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of their beliefs. These are spirits who believe they must sleep after death until Jesus returns.

Jesus shows him a dimension where angry spirits are locked in hand-to-hand combat, trying in vain to hurt each other. He hears verbal abuse going on. He observes some trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. He also sees spirits arguing over some religious or political point and trying to kill the ones who did not agree with them. Here, he realizes he is seeing hell. These are spirits who are locked into some earthly desire that went beyond the physical and which cannot be satisfied in the spirit.

 

[Stan Tei]

To equate the visions of any prophet to near death experiences is a gross injustice. Are you suggesting that Ellen White's multiple visions are near death experiences? I have read of such experiences yet I know of no one having any near death experiences more than once.

 

[DennisTate]

Actually no, I was suggesting that Mrs. Ellen White's experiences were "out of the body experiences" that even the Apostle Paul would not rule out from being possible.

I strongly suspect that a divinely guided out of the body experience could be what was meant by the Apostle John when he said that he was "in the spirit." I may be wrong but I do have some valid reasons to equate being "in the spirit" to being out of the body?!

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knowethHow that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.(II Corinthians 12:2-4)

I did try my best to research this subject...over the past 22 years I have came to conclusions and I do admit that what I have concluded could be seriously in error.

 

[DennisTate]

If I remember correctly Mrs. Ellen White reported having being hit in the head with a rock, after ward out of the body experiences, OBE's became a common occurrence for her! It is about twenty some years since I read several of her books and I could be mixing her up with somebody else...but anyway...that is what I remember.

At that time I found one of her books to be rather offensive and I went off in another direction, basically toward the Messianic Jewish/Messianic Gentile movement. At this time I now can get my head around the specific message that bothered me so much back then...and if I read that book again I am sure that it would not offend me at all....

In my opinion, for what it is worth, which on many occasions isn't very much....I personally believe that Mrs. Ellen White had genuine out of the body experiences that were guided by the God of Abraham, in which she received genuine messages from the God of Abraham or from angels sent to her from the God of Abraham....given to raise up a group of people who could be compared with the Jewish Essene movement out of which John/Yohannan the Baptist and the family of Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua emerged!

I believe that much of what Mrs. Ellen White wrote is for the year 2300 and will be given vastly more respect by that time!

 

[Stan Tei]

Actually no, I was suggesting that Mrs. Ellen White's experiences were "out of the body experiences" that even the Apostle Paul would not rule out from being possible.

I strongly suspect that a divinely guided out of the body experience could be what was meant by the Apostle John when he said that he was "in the spirit." I may be wrong but I do have some valid reasons to equate being "in the spirit" to being out of the body?!

I did try my best to research this subject...over the past 22 years I have came to conclusions and I do admit that what I have concluded could be seriously in error.

On that point I can agree.

 

[Stan Tei]

By the year 2300, I do not believe that anyone will disagree... with anything. I do not believe that anyone evil will have any infliuence on anyone else.