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See, now you're definitely calling me a liar, because by any meaningful definition of the term "know", I'm saying that I don't. I don't know that there is a god, and I'm kind of confused as to how you could demonstrate that my own thoughts are lying to me.All I know is that everyone knows there is a God.
See, now you're definitely calling me a liar, because by any meaningful definition of the term "know", I'm saying that I don't. I don't know that there is a god.
It is very interesting to study both world religions and world mythologies. All through history in all cultures throughout the entire world all people have worshipped some kind of higher power. Even during the era of polytheism (which continues today in India and other places) there has always been a recognition of a single supreme being. The Chinese had many gods, but they still recognized a supreme emperor in the sky. Even the apostle Paul pointed out to the Greek Athenians that amongst all their gods they an altar to an unknown god, of whom he explained who He was.
No one believes in just a hope that there is some kind of higher power. All believe because in their hearts they are convinced that there is a higher power.
I know you do because God proclaims that everyone knows He is because He has made Himself known, and you have no excuse. That's what I know.
I have to respectfully disagree. Everyone has been given the knowledge of God. We know Him through His creation. It takes some effort to deny that.
When faith-peddlers make obvious mistakes like this about things we can easily test, it really kills any motivation to believe their harder to verify claims.
It's understandable that you would defend your inherently weak position by attacking me personally though, It's the usual basic defensive reaction to the fear you feel in the weakness of your position.
Funny, we have gone in opposite directions. I now find mysticism principly self generated so immediately suspect. The God I know and trust speaks only infrequently through others minds.Agreed.
Then the question as to whether in acceptance or rejection of message (here, the biblical one) there is a divine hand or power at work...
I was more dismissive of mysticism when I was younger. I still have my scepticism but not from a priori rejection of mysticism as a mode to true knowledge. It's more complicated.
Paul answers that in the next passage "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes truly, their sound went into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."
Nothing ethereal there just one person after another passing on the good news.
I don't see his response as being constrained or only meaningful from "within the faith" whatever that means. We are speaking a common language, and Paul's terminology there are not couched in any "words of art" of believers."Paul answers" is phrased from within the faith, I think.
Nonsense. That is plainly meaningful either way."Is Paul right to say that?" would be something almost exclusively said from outside that position.
Is "This is true" an answer given to faith, or the answer faith itself generates?
I find the two difficult if not impossible to separate.
Has God spoken to me? that wanders away from the topic. It would appear He has not spoken effectively to me, which is peculiar, and leads to a branching set of possibilities (off topic!)
Faith never errs and, if it does, it's not faith? What a self-serving definition.
If you point out the ad hominem I will apologize. I believe there is none, but you are welcome to be offended if you choose.
Some have posited faith as an epistemology here; that you can know something through faith in it.
For those making that claim, I have a simple question.
If you hold on faith that a particular god exists, and I hold on faith that your particular god does not exist, how do we determine which one of us is right? We cannot both be right; one of us must be wrong. But how, using faith, can we determine which of the two of us is in the wrong?
The difference between knowledge and religious faith is. One requires continual learning, testing, investigating, the other tells you what to think of the power of a man saying "god said so".Some have posited faith as an epistemology here; that you can know something through faith in it.
I think you're using a very narrow and personalized definition of faith that doesn't apply to a broad audience of people.The difference between knowledge and religious faith is. One requires continual learning, testing, investigating, the other tells you what to think of the power of a man saying "god said so".
So give examples please.I think you're using a very narrow and personalized definition of faith that doesn't apply to a broad audience of people.
So give examples please.
So ISIS is telling people to go on suicide missions because?Faith is merely about mental confidence in someone or something, whether it be a person's loyalty, faith in a religion, or the belief that metaphysical solipsism is false.
It just seems strange to say faith tells you what to think of the power of a man saying "god said so". By that I'm understanding that you think of faith as some sort of crippling mental trap subjecting people to other men in power, ex.some abusive clergy having power over it's church.
So ISIS is telling people to go on suicide missions because?
The Roman Catholics went to numerous wars, because?
Religions executed or still do because the victim thinks differently, because?
I could go on and on. Because of the number of people who have told their followers to do horrendous acts, because they claimed it was gods will. From the time of Moses. Your problem is in saying "some abusive clergy having power over it's church."
Look at religion as a whole and a tool. Then ask yourself if it's always been led by good men? Even today the fight against gays, sex, marriage, women, schools shows it wants to use it's power to oppress and limit learning.
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