How does one know anything via faith?

[JustHisKid]

You really don't get it, do you? What give you any right to privilege your spiritual experience over and above that of anyone else by imposing your interpretation of such from your standpoint.

There is no 'over and above'. The difference is Jesus. It seems you are purposefully ignoring this.

Of course all other will appears inferior or flawed or worse, from where you are standing, because you are measuring from where you are standing. Guess which position is nearest "the right one" by that methodology?

Again. JESUS.

Now. If you can, apply the same methodology and criterion of "rightness" from a different starting point (held by faith in perfect sincerity). What results by way of conclusion?

Deception. Remember, only Christianity has JESUS. He is the only one who died and rose again. Nothing else compares.

 

[JustHisKid]

What convinced you of all of that ?

Because I know that the spirit world interacts with humanity and I know that people have had spiritual encounters with spirits other than Jesus.

 

[TillICollapse]

Because I know that the spirit world interacts with humanity and I know that people have had spiritual encounters with spirits other than Jesus.

"Why are you convinced of it ?"

"Because I know it."

I tend to jump out of circular arguments, so at this point, I will jump out. No offense, thx for your responses. I may return to some points later.

 

[outsidethecamp]

You really don't get it, do you? What give you any right to privilege your spiritual experience over and above that of anyone else by imposing your interpretation of such from your standpoint. Of course all other will appears inferior or flawed or worse, from where you are standing, because you are measuring from where you are standing. Guess which position is nearest "the right one" by that methodology?

Now. If you can, apply the same methodology and criterion of "rightness" from a different starting point (held by faith in perfect sincerity). What results by way of conclusion?

Hi Chris,

I see what you mean. The only right or privilege that anyone has is to live according to the light which they believe they have. And, all people have a right to share their testimony, or what has happened to them personally. No one has a right to force someone else to believe like they do, but everyone has a right to share their story. All men, must live according to their own conscious and what they believe is true and no one's conscious should be violated. And of course, regardless of one's story, they should still be respected and honored.

1Pet_2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

[JustHisKid]

"Why are you convinced of it ?"

"Because I know it."

I tend to jump out of circular arguments, so at this point, I will jump out. No offense, thx for your responses. I may return to some points later.

Hi Chris,

I see what you mean. The only right or privilege that anyone has is to live according to the light which they believe they have. And, all people have a right to share their testimony, or what has happened to them personally. No one has a right to force someone else to believe like they do, but everyone has a right to share their story. All men, must live according to their own conscious and what they believe is true and no one's conscious should be violated. And of course, regardless of one's story, they should still be respected and honored.

1Pet_2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Or you can share the gospel with them.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Or you can share the gospel with them.

Of course you can share the Gospel. Because in sharing the Gospel you will be sharing your story and why Christ is real to you. Everyone has a right to share who they believe in and why someone changed their heart and path in life and what gives them hope and love. I have been to 25 countries in my lifetime and am constantly amazed at how people from all of these countries describe the same Jesus that I know. They exactly describe the same Jesus that I have come to know, by His Spirit.

 

[JustHisKid]

Of course you can share the Gospel. Because in sharing the Gospel you will be sharing your story and why Christ is real to you.

But Jesus isn't just real to me, He is real, period. Further, He is the only mediator between God and man. He is the Alpha and Omega. He is the Great I Am. He is the only Savior of mankind. He is the only way to God.

Everyone has a right to share who they believe in and why someone changed their heart and path in life and what gives them hope and love.

Of course they do. I never suggested otherwise. There is only one name by which anyone can be saved, however, and that is Jesus. No other paths lead to God.

I have been to 25 countries in my lifetime and am constantly amazed at how people from all of these countries describe the same Jesus that I know. They exactly describe the same Jesus that I have come to know, by His Spirit.

Are you saying they describe an encounter that was not with Jesus that sounds the same as your encounter with Jesus? If that is the case, it is a familiar and deceiving spirit, because only Jesus saves.

 

[outsidethecamp]

But Jesus isn't just real to me, He is real, period. Further, He is the only mediator between God and man. He is the Alpha and Omega. He is the Great I Am. He is the only Savior of mankind. He is the only way to God.



Of course they do. I never suggested otherwise. There is only one name by which anyone can be saved, however, and that is Jesus. No other paths lead to God.

Whoa there pardner!!!

From Chris B.'s point of view Jesus is only real to you but not him. And that makes sense. Of course, I share your point of view that Jesus Christ is real, period? And there is no other God, because the same Jesus that came to you, came to me, also. And yes, we have a right to say that He is real period, and the only God, whether others want to agree or not. We still love them.

Are you saying they describe an encounter that was not with Jesus that sounds the same as your encounter with Jesus? If that is the case, it is a familiar and deceiving spirit, because only Jesus saves.

No, it was Jesus all the way. I was saying that in conversations with Filipinos, Japanese, Koreans, Brazilians, Germans, Palestinians Christians, etc, they describe the character and behavior of Jesus in such a way that I instantly recognize the same character and behavior of the Lord that I have come to know.

 

[JustHisKid]

Whoa there pardner!!!

From Chris B.'s point of view Jesus is only real to you but not him. And that makes sense. Of course, I share your point of view that Jesus Christ is real, period? And there is no other God, because the same Jesus that came to you, came to me, also. And yes, we have a right to say that He is real period, and the only God, whether others want to agree or not. We still love them.

Yes, we absolutely still love them. I will never validate their faith in false gods, however.

No, it was Jesus all the way. I was saying that in conversations with Filipinos, Japanese, Koreans, Brazilians, Germans, Palestinians Christians, etc, they describe the character and behavior of Jesus in such a way that I instantly recognize the same character and behavior of the Lord that I have come to know.

That is awesome

 

[Rygaku]

Some have posited faith as an epistemology here; that you can know something through faith in it.

For those making that claim, I have a simple question.

If you hold on faith that a particular god exists, and I hold on faith that your particular god does not exist, how do we determine which one of us is right? We cannot both be right; one of us must be wrong. But how, using faith, can we determine which of the two of us is in the wrong?

Knowledge and faith are different ideologies.

Faith being something that is easily laughed off and even criticized heavily in today's modern age in the civilized first world. Where as in the third world and barbaric countries that are using religious texts to the extreme something like criticism is heavily frowned upon and the punishment being sever like death. Here in the first world at most you will get a apologist trying to make what ever argument on faith sound well logical when it is not.

Knowledge being the best thing ever is something that we all have but the minority or i should say who ever believes in the bible literally on faith tend to have less of it. Now with knowledge you can view the problems with faith for one being, the bible talks about how there is only one god, then if you notice reading a bit further in it clearly tells you not to worship any other god(s) meaning there is more than one god. There is clear issues with the bible and using knowledge you can pick out the contradictions fairly easily. For contradictions besides the don't worship other gods. There is quiet a few more. But getting back on top a person with a decent amount of knowledge can see faith is simply believing in something that may not even exist. With the case of having faith that the stories in the bible to be true for the most part are wrong and only a few historical biblical sites do exit. For instance the global flood, creation myth, adam and eve (this one looking at the genetics wouldn't even be possible), and various others pick and choose. It is with Knowledge we know as atheists and skeptics and irreligious that holy texts are not holy but fiction.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Knowledge and faith are different ideologies.

Faith being something that is easily laughed off and even criticized heavily in today's modern age in the civilized first world. Where as in the third world and barbaric countries that are using religious texts to the extreme something like criticism is heavily frowned upon and the punishment being sever like death. Here in the first world at most you will get a apologist trying to make what ever argument on faith sound well logical when it is not.

Knowledge being the best thing ever is something that we all have but the minority or i should say who ever believes in the bible literally on faith tend to have less of it. Now with knowledge you can view the problems with faith for one being, the bible talks about how there is only one god, then if you notice reading a bit further in it clearly tells you not to worship any other god(s) meaning there is more than one god. There is clear issues with the bible and using knowledge you can pick out the contradictions fairly easily. For contradictions besides the don't worship other gods. There is quiet a few more. But getting back on top a person with a decent amount of knowledge can see faith is simply believing in something that may not even exist. With the case of having faith that the stories in the bible to be true for the most part are wrong and only a few historical biblical sites do exit. For instance the global flood, creation myth, adam and eve (this one looking at the genetics wouldn't even be possible), and various others pick and choose. It is with Knowledge we know as atheists and skeptics and irreligious that holy texts are not holy but fiction.

Thank God that knowledge doesn't save. Only the educated would be saved.

But all men have been given a measure of faith.

Ironic isn't it that the evolution of our "knowledge" has taken us to the moon but sociologically we are no different than 4,000 years ago, still killing each other and devising horrible things to control one another.

Why, if we had evolved sociologically and behaviorally as much as our knowledge has grown, we would be living in a world where there are no poor people, no taxes, no countries (division), no racism, no buying and selling but only sharing and helping.

 

[The Cadet]

But all men have been given a measure of faith.

I haven't.

 

[AlexDTX]

Some have posited faith as an epistemology here; that you can know something through faith in it.

For those making that claim, I have a simple question.

If you hold on faith that a particular god exists, and I hold on faith that your particular god does not exist, how do we determine which one of us is right? We cannot both be right; one of us must be wrong. But how, using faith, can we determine which of the two of us is in the wrong?

Faith is the foundation of knowing. Specifically, we believe the information our eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin gives us. These instruments of our senses can be wrong and manipulated, particularly as the mind interprets the data. But in general they are reliable so we trust them which is faith. Of course, there are things our 5 senses can not perceive, but through the advancement of technology we are able to amplify them so our senses can perceive them, such as the use of electron microscopes, hubble telescope or various radiation devices such as x-rays. These things still bring them into the realm of our senses' ability to perceive.

This is also true of God. His existence is perceived in all creation through the odds against chance in favor of design. Likewise His Spirit is perceivable through our senses in various ways. Of course, demons and angels are also perceivable through our senses, at least in an evidential way if not directly, so one must ask, "how do you know this is God?" By the outcome. If you do His will as revealed by the Scriptures and his leading results in the outcome they say, the odds are you are following God.

Ultimately though, we trust our senses and experiences with people as a means to know them. Likewise we do with Jesus. When you get to know someone, you can tell the difference even in a crowd just as a mother knows the voice of her child in a crowd. Jesus said my sheep know my voice. Faith is the foundation of all knowing. This is at the root of the philosophical expression, I think therefore I am. One has faith that we, as individuals exist to be able to perceive in the first place.

 

[JustHisKid]

I haven't.

I have to respectfully disagree. Everyone has been given the knowledge of God. We know Him through His creation. It takes some effort to deny that.

 

[quatona]

It always strikes me as adorable when people feel that strategies that are very effective when preaching to the choir have value as an argument.

 

[JustHisKid]

It always strikes me as adorable when people feel that strategies that are very effective when preaching to the choir have value as an argument.

I doubt it very much.

 

[TillICollapse]

I have to respectfully disagree. Everyone has been given the knowledge of God. We know Him through His creation. It takes some effort to deny that.

So would you say that an indigenous, primitive people who have never even heard of "God" will have a concept of a supreme spirit or God ?

 

[JustHisKid]

So would you say that an indigenous, primitive people who have never even heard of "God" will have a concept of a supreme spirit or God ?

Of course they do. Native Indians worshiped... stuff. We are created to worship.

 

[The Cadet]

I have to respectfully disagree. Everyone has been given the knowledge of God. We know Him through His creation. It takes some effort to deny that.

Good to know you think I'm a liar, but I either misunderstand what you mean by "a measure of faith" or I lack it. I mean, jeez, last Saturday I was in the prime position to have some kind of religious experience (you try doing the things I did while under the influence of the substances I was under and not think "there is a god"!) and I got nothing. Zip. Nada. Diddly squat. I don't have faith, and I don't consider faith to be a good thing to have.

 

[JustHisKid]

Good to know you think I'm a liar, but I either misunderstand what you mean by "a measure of faith" or I lack it. I mean, jeez, last Saturday I was in the prime position to have some kind of religious experience (you try doing the things I did while under the influence of the substances I was under and not think "there is a god"!) and I got nothing. Zip. Nada. Diddly squat. I don't have faith, and I don't consider faith to be a good thing to have.

I don't think you are a liar. I think you don't recognize that you recognize there is a God. God is not a religious experience and you won't find him doing drugs, if that is what you are saying. All I know is that everyone knows there is a God. That doesn't mean you are going to feel something or have an experience. That is not faith.